Dahon Speed Pro Advice
10-17-21, 08:55 PM
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Dahon Speed Pro Advice
I have found a Dahon Speed Pro (Not a TT), Steel version V-brakes 2005 model in a pristine condition, the owner (70 years old) bought it in 2010 as a first owner and he has 9 other bikes so it was used only a few times.
The difference between the Pro model and the Pro TT model as far as I read are:
1. 24 gear Dual drive Sram X7 instead of the 27 gear shimano 105 deraileur
2. Avid instead of Shimano STI Shifters
3. Avid instead Shimano STI brake levers
4. Cane Creek bar ends instead of the famous Drop Bar on the TT
Would you spend around £400 in 2021 on this Speed pro version 17 years later? Does the bike performance and condition justify it? If not what's an alternative?
I have been curious about this one as it was considered one of the fastest Dahon bikes.
The difference between the Pro model and the Pro TT model as far as I read are:
1. 24 gear Dual drive Sram X7 instead of the 27 gear shimano 105 deraileur
2. Avid instead of Shimano STI Shifters
3. Avid instead Shimano STI brake levers
4. Cane Creek bar ends instead of the famous Drop Bar on the TT
Would you spend around £400 in 2021 on this Speed pro version 17 years later? Does the bike performance and condition justify it? If not what's an alternative?
I have been curious about this one as it was considered one of the fastest Dahon bikes.
10-18-21, 02:05 PM
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Yes, I would get that bicycle if it checked out well. Anything that you don't like about it can be changed, with exception of the 74mm front hub width (same fault as on every Dahon fork). Also, know that the Sram Dual Drive hub system has been discontinued so, the part that interfaces the cable with the hub, known as the "clickbox", has no more replacements being made as far as I know.
10-18-21, 03:32 PM
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It's great to hear that someone else would pay this money for it. At least it's somehow justified.
Thanks a lot for the tip regarding the Sram-Dual drive. I'll check it throughly on-site.
Have you tried this Speed pro model ? What's your opinion about it?
Thanks a lot for the tip regarding the Sram-Dual drive. I'll check it throughly on-site.
Have you tried this Speed pro model ? What's your opinion about it?
10-18-21, 04:56 PM
#4
iti biking
Click boxes can be picked up secondhand easily still on eBay etc. The control rod that shifts the gears are available from a Bavarian fella who makes them from scratch. You might find that the rubber on the grip shift element of the combo shifter has perished, but you can pick up NOS SRAM shifters of this style or mountain bike style ones out there too.
If you get fed up keeping a discontinued hub drive going, Sturmey Archer makes a replacement hub that does the same thing so the concept of a three-speed hub with a cassette attached is still valid.
If you get fed up keeping a discontinued hub drive going, Sturmey Archer makes a replacement hub that does the same thing so the concept of a three-speed hub with a cassette attached is still valid.
10-18-21, 06:10 PM
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Yours is actually better than my newer model, if you want to have multiple chainrings, because yours doesn't have a brazed-on front derailleur hanger. The reason that's good is that a clamp-on front derailleur hanger offers plenty of adjustment, whereas a braze-on can't be moved and thus requires a lot more effort and expense to get a front derailleur to work.
There's one thing about the older model frame that isn't as good as the newer one. The older model doesn't have a built-in socket for a luggage truss. I didn't notice that at first because I don't use those. You can get an adapter that adds the socket, though.
10-19-21, 07:10 PM
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Click boxes can be picked up secondhand easily still on eBay etc. The control rod that shifts the gears are available from a Bavarian fella who makes them from scratch. You might find that the rubber on the grip shift element of the combo shifter has perished, but you can pick up NOS SRAM shifters of this style or mountain bike style ones out there too.
If you get fed up keeping a discontinued hub drive going, Sturmey Archer makes a replacement hub that does the same thing so the concept of a three-speed hub with a cassette attached is still valid.
If you get fed up keeping a discontinued hub drive going, Sturmey Archer makes a replacement hub that does the same thing so the concept of a three-speed hub with a cassette attached is still valid.
10-19-21, 07:20 PM
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I haven't tried the Speed Pro bicycle. The frame/fork is the same as what I'm riding though. Chromoly is indefinitely dependable. As long as the frame looks correct, you won't have to worry about it failing on you. That isn't the case with aluminum, which develops invisible damage from fatigue, that can catastrophically fail without any warning. A used folding bicycle is the most likely scenario for that to occur.
Yours is actually better than my newer model, if you want to have multiple chainrings, because yours doesn't have a brazed-on front derailleur hanger. The reason that's good is that a clamp-on front derailleur hanger offers plenty of adjustment, whereas a braze-on can't be moved and thus requires a lot more effort and expense to get a front derailleur to work.
There's one thing about the older model frame that isn't as good as the newer one. The older model doesn't have a built-in socket for a luggage truss. I didn't notice that at first because I don't use those. You can get an adapter that adds the socket, though.
Yours is actually better than my newer model, if you want to have multiple chainrings, because yours doesn't have a brazed-on front derailleur hanger. The reason that's good is that a clamp-on front derailleur hanger offers plenty of adjustment, whereas a braze-on can't be moved and thus requires a lot more effort and expense to get a front derailleur to work.
There's one thing about the older model frame that isn't as good as the newer one. The older model doesn't have a built-in socket for a luggage truss. I didn't notice that at first because I don't use those. You can get an adapter that adds the socket, though.
I had a stainless steel Dahon Quest before and I really loved it! So maybe I will like this one as well, I think the speed pro one has the built-in socket but thanks again for the tip.
10-20-21, 02:07 AM
#8
iti biking
Can’t help you with that particular front hub, sorry - my experience has just been with a Speed TR which would have a dynamo hub originally. The German guy just makes obsolete SRAM hub control rods and bits for upgrading BMWs (clichéd, I know!) so he doesn’t have any parts that could aid you.
10-20-21, 03:57 AM
#9
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Pantour hub and main frame hinge pin
I managed to revive the Pantour hub on mine. I trimmed a blue elastomer from a Cane Creek Thudbuster to approximately fit the cavity. It doesn't fit very well, a larger piece of elastomer would be better, but the hub now works again.
If you're buying one of these please be sure to check for play in the main frame hinge. My bike is little used but has annoying play which allows the frame to twist if I put heavy pressure on the pedals. It's possible to reduce the play by adjusting the small turn buckle in the hinge clamp mechanism, but the latch becomes very difficult close and even more difficult to open if I do this. Consequently I'm in the process of attempting to renew the hinge pin. This is proving to be a very difficult task. The pin is inserted into a blind hole and I began by drilling the top (blind) end so that I could try to punch the pin out from the top. This was unsuccessful, the pin did not move. I'm now attempting to drill it out from the bottom. A TCT tipped drill is required, HSS drills are not hard enough. At the time of writing I have not been able to complete the task. (I'm reluctant to use any heat on the frame because the paint finish on the bike is still excellent). Has anyone else attempted pin replacement on one of these bikes? Any advice would be much appreciated.
If you're buying one of these please be sure to check for play in the main frame hinge. My bike is little used but has annoying play which allows the frame to twist if I put heavy pressure on the pedals. It's possible to reduce the play by adjusting the small turn buckle in the hinge clamp mechanism, but the latch becomes very difficult close and even more difficult to open if I do this. Consequently I'm in the process of attempting to renew the hinge pin. This is proving to be a very difficult task. The pin is inserted into a blind hole and I began by drilling the top (blind) end so that I could try to punch the pin out from the top. This was unsuccessful, the pin did not move. I'm now attempting to drill it out from the bottom. A TCT tipped drill is required, HSS drills are not hard enough. At the time of writing I have not been able to complete the task. (I'm reluctant to use any heat on the frame because the paint finish on the bike is still excellent). Has anyone else attempted pin replacement on one of these bikes? Any advice would be much appreciated.
10-20-21, 08:40 AM
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The outfit involved in importing and distributing your brand in your country has many repair/replacement/upgrade parts including a 14spoke front wheel and even the DualDrive Clickbox. Sorry, if you were fixing up any other brand folder I'd just give you the link, but with D**** that's all the information I dare tell you for fear of getting banned for life from this forum.
10-21-21, 04:07 PM
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I managed to revive the Pantour hub on mine. I trimmed a blue elastomer from a Cane Creek Thudbuster to approximately fit the cavity. It doesn't fit very well, a larger piece of elastomer would be better, but the hub now works again.
If you're buying one of these please be sure to check for play in the main frame hinge.
If you're buying one of these please be sure to check for play in the main frame hinge.
How would you test the main frame hinge and the Pantour hub for any noticeable displacement?
A quick Google reveals Aliexpress has 74mm OLD, 14º front hubs.
The outfit involved in importing and distributing your brand in your country has many repair/replacement/upgrade parts including a 14spoke front wheel and even the DualDrive Clickbox. Sorry, if you were fixing up any other brand folder I'd just give you the link, but with D**** that's all the information I dare tell you for fear of getting banned for life from this forum.
The outfit involved in importing and distributing your brand in your country has many repair/replacement/upgrade parts including a 14spoke front wheel and even the DualDrive Clickbox. Sorry, if you were fixing up any other brand folder I'd just give you the link, but with D**** that's all the information I dare tell you for fear of getting banned for life from this forum.
Wow ... Is the information about getting banned for mentioning this particular Brand name available as a forum posting rule or something?!
10-24-21, 01:49 AM
#12
Junior Member
The Pantour hub does help to reduce vibration in the handlebars a bit, and I liked it enough to take the trouble to restore it! To check the bearings for play, just push the rim from side to side and watch for movement between the rotating part and the fixed centre. Even with brand new bearings there will be a small movement of maybe a couple of millimetres measured at the rim. To check the elastomer, simply stand astride the bike and then press down as hard as you can on the handlebars whilst watching the rim adjacent to the brake blocks. You should easily detect the movement, and when you release the pressure, you should see the rim spring back up in relation to the brake blocks. If there's no movement, it means the elastomer has solidified and needs replacement. To check the main frame hinge, set the seat height so that you can sit on it with legs apart and your feet flat on the ground. Then press down alternately on each side of the handlebars while looking down at the hinge joint. If you can clearly see movement between the hinge parts, you'll have to make a decision about whether it's at an acceptable level or not. Best thing is to ride it up a hill which requires you to put some serious pressure on the pedals and see how "squirrelly" it feels. All folding bikes with long seat and handle posts flex a lot from side to side under heavy pedalling, so you just have to decide how much flex you can tolerate. If there aren't any hills where you test the bike, you could shift into a higher gear than you normally would and press harder on the pedals to try and generate the flex.
10-24-21, 03:05 PM
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The Pantour hub does help to reduce vibration in the handlebars a bit, and I liked it enough to take the trouble to restore it! To check the bearings for play, just push the rim from side to side and watch for movement between the rotating part and the fixed centre. Even with brand new bearings there will be a small movement of maybe a couple of millimetres measured at the rim. To check the elastomer, simply stand astride the bike and then press down as hard as you can on the handlebars whilst watching the rim adjacent to the brake blocks. You should easily detect the movement, and when you release the pressure, you should see the rim spring back up in relation to the brake blocks. If there's no movement, it means the elastomer has solidified and needs replacement. To check the main frame hinge, set the seat height so that you can sit on it with legs apart and your feet flat on the ground. Then press down alternately on each side of the handlebars while looking down at the hinge joint. If you can clearly see movement between the hinge parts, you'll have to make a decision about whether it's at an acceptable level or not. Best thing is to ride it up a hill which requires you to put some serious pressure on the pedals and see how "squirrelly" it feels. All folding bikes with long seat and handle posts flex a lot from side to side under heavy pedalling, so you just have to decide how much flex you can tolerate. If there aren't any hills where you test the bike, you could shift into a higher gear than you normally would and press harder on the pedals to try and generate the flex.
I don't get the bearings part but I'll try first to look for the manual of the hub to be on the same page with you.
10-24-21, 06:27 PM
#14
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Can you post some images? I've seen several frame hinge configurations. I have two Dahons myself. There is usually some way to get the hinge apart. Look very carefully for some place where a set screw ("grub" screw) might be holding the pin in place.
10-25-21, 03:05 AM
#15
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That's a lot of useful information here, thanks for sharing. Like I said I don't know if I would like it or not, but it's interesting that you mentioned the case when the elastomer has solidified and there's no movement at all it means that the hub is just behaving like a normal hub without suspension... So would it be possible to just use it in this way if I don't want to go through the hassle of repairing/replacing it? Or do I really need a new HUB? So far No one has mentioned that they have reused the rim and spokes with another 74mm hub so I don't know.
I don't get the bearings part but I'll try first to look for the manual of the hub to be on the same page with you.
I don't get the bearings part but I'll try first to look for the manual of the hub to be on the same page with you.
10-25-21, 03:18 AM
#16
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I think this image is from a later model than mine because it has locating pegs on the face of the hinge plates, but the main hinge pin and body of the hinge is the same. Notice how the pin is not visible from the top. I had to drill into the hinge from the top to create a hole to allow me to try and punch the pin downwards. I found the grub screw you're talking about and removed it easily. The pin appears to have been pressed into place. If my hinge had the pegs I probably wouldn't have had the problem.
10-25-21, 11:19 AM
#17
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I think this image is from a later model than mine because it has locating pegs on the face of the hinge plates, but the main hinge pin and body of the hinge is the same. Notice how the pin is not visible from the top. I had to drill into the hinge from the top to create a hole to allow me to try and punch the pin downwards. I found the grub screw you're talking about and removed it easily. The pin appears to have been pressed into place. If my hinge had the pegs I probably wouldn't have had the problem.
10-25-21, 12:20 PM
#18
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Sorry, It's not a picture of my bike, I didn't have a picture of my hinge to hand so just grabbed the nearest likeness I could find. I am referring to a speed pro and the way the hinge pin is housed is the same as in this picture. The pin is not visible from above just like this picture. I don't know the exact model the picture shows.
10-25-21, 01:41 PM
#19
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Sorry, It's not a picture of my bike, I didn't have a picture of my hinge to hand so just grabbed the nearest likeness I could find. I am referring to a speed pro and the way the hinge pin is housed is the same as in this picture. The pin is not visible from above just like this picture. I don't know the exact model the picture shows.
On my Speed 9 frame, the hinge pin apparently has some threading on it. The hole on the bottom (where it was inserted) is threaded, at least. Is yours different from that?
10-26-21, 03:21 AM
#20
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Yes, mine's different. There's no sign of any threading and there was no hex socket or slot in the end of the pin before I started drilling. Your comment did make me wonder if there might be a cross drilled pin to lock the main pin in position, but after further thought, I think it unlikely given how tough the pin is to drill. I think my next step will be to find out if it's feasible to remove the remains of the pin by electrical discharge machining, and if so how much it will cost.
10-28-21, 08:23 PM
#21
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The Pantour hub does help to reduce vibration in the handlebars a bit, and I liked it enough to take the trouble to restore it! To check the bearings for play, just push the rim from side to side and watch for movement between the rotating part and the fixed centre. Even with brand new bearings there will be a small movement of maybe a couple of millimetres measured at the rim. To check the elastomer, simply stand astride the bike and then press down as hard as you can on the handlebars whilst watching the rim adjacent to the brake blocks. You should easily detect the movement, and when you release the pressure, you should see the rim spring back up in relation to the brake blocks. If there's no movement, it means the elastomer has solidified and needs replacement. To check the main frame hinge, set the seat height so that you can sit on it with legs apart and your feet flat on the ground. Then press down alternately on each side of the handlebars while looking down at the hinge joint. If you can clearly see movement between the hinge parts, you'll have to make a decision about whether it's at an acceptable level or not. Best thing is to ride it up a hill which requires you to put some serious pressure on the pedals and see how "squirrelly" it feels. All folding bikes with long seat and handle posts flex a lot from side to side under heavy pedalling, so you just have to decide how much flex you can tolerate. If there aren't any hills where you test the bike, you could shift into a higher gear than you normally would and press harder on the pedals to try and generate the flex.
So finally I got the bike, I think it is generally in a very good condition. As you mentioned earlier the hub didn't flex and thanks for your tip I knew it was because the elastomers solidified. I opened the Pantour hub and I took a look at it to make sure and it appears that nothing was touched there.
PANTOUR hub
I have a series of questions now on my mind and I would be thankful if you can help me with:
- Did you use the ST or the LT Thudbusters?
- I would appreciate it if you can tell me which elastomers form produced the best results for you.
- In the manual it shows a semi circle piece (just like the one I have) and another cylindrical piece (Mine was just probably deformed) but some photos online shows the rod wrapped with elastomers.
- Do I have to add some lubricant grease in there?
- In the end, was it giving some cushioning or did it just function as a normal hub?
10-29-21, 03:39 AM
#22
Junior Member
Repaired hub
I have a series of questions now on my mind and I would be thankful if you can help me with:
- Did you use the ST or the LT Thudbusters?
- I would appreciate it if you can tell me which elastomers form produced the best results for you.
- In the manual it shows a semi circle piece (just like the one I have) and another cylindrical piece (Mine was just probably deformed) but some photos online shows the rod wrapped with elastomers.
- In the manual it shows a semi circle piece (just like the one I have) and another cylindrical piece (Mine was just probably deformed) but some photos online shows the rod wrapped with elastomers.
- Do I have to add some lubricant grease in there?
- In the end, was it giving some cushioning or did it just function as a normal hub?
Thanks in advance!
. My answers below:- LT blue elastomer
- The blue was the only spare I had and I got lucky, it worked for me. I'm about 76kg. Based on 8 year old images from the Japanese Cycletech site I think the original shape was probably square cut blocks of two different thicknesses. I hope you can see in the picture that I didn't attempt to make a square block from the LT elastomer, I just cut a segment out, then jammed it into place.
- I didn't see any evidence of lube when I dismantled mine and I didn't use any to reassemble it. Yours looks similar from the picture.
- Yes, I could feel the cushioning effect after the repair. I still have the Stelvio tyres in good condition and run them at full pressure. If you will run larger section tyres at a lower pressure, then you may not feel much benefit after the repair. BUT, one of the principle reasons this bike performed so well was because of the low rolling resistance of the tyres. The resulting hard ride was mitigated by the hub. There's an impartial review here: Pantour Suspension Hub (atob.org.uk)
Notice that I didn't attempt to replace the "rebound" small elastomer, I may do so in the future. Good luck.
11-01-21, 06:29 PM
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Hi MTZER, First of all, you can call me Andrew. My answers below:
Notice that I didn't attempt to replace the "rebound" small elastomer, I may do so in the future. Good luck.
. My answers below:- LT blue elastomer
- The blue was the only spare I had and I got lucky, it worked for me. I'm about 76kg. Based on 8 year old images from the Japanese Cycletech site I think the original shape was probably square cut blocks of two different thicknesses. I hope you can see in the picture that I didn't attempt to make a square block from the LT elastomer, I just cut a segment out, then jammed it into place.
- I didn't see any evidence of lube when I dismantled mine and I didn't use any to reassemble it. Yours looks similar from the picture.
- Yes, I could feel the cushioning effect after the repair. I still have the Stelvio tyres in good condition and run them at full pressure. If you will run larger section tyres at a lower pressure, then you may not feel much benefit after the repair. BUT, one of the principle reasons this bike performed so well was because of the low rolling resistance of the tyres. The resulting hard ride was mitigated by the hub. There's an impartial review here: Pantour Suspension Hub (atob.org.uk)
Notice that I didn't attempt to replace the "rebound" small elastomer, I may do so in the future. Good luck.
Hello Andrew!
Thanks a lot for your post and the picture! It seems very simple to replace it and it is far away from the pain I imagined myself going through by reading through all the old stories.
Anyway, I called Ben at Kinetics and he seemed to have some of the last spare Pantour hub elastomers! He said some already solidified but I am just getting them for the sake of curiosity about the shape and material! I have a small elastomer laying around here which is looking like the Cane Creek which I'm planning to use! I'll keep you posted with a picture this week when I do the replacement.
Thanks again!
11-01-21, 06:42 PM
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Regarding the SRAM Dual Drive, I have tuned the click-box already and the bike seems to be shifting correctly on the repair stand.
I noticed that at gear 1 (Downhill) the sound is pretty fine but when I shift to gear 2 (Flat) or 3 (Uphill) there is a noticeable but constant "clicker" sound.
Is this a normal internal hub characteristic or should I be worried?
I noticed that at gear 1 (Downhill) the sound is pretty fine but when I shift to gear 2 (Flat) or 3 (Uphill) there is a noticeable but constant "clicker" sound.
Is this a normal internal hub characteristic or should I be worried?
11-03-21, 05:33 AM
#25
Junior Member
Regarding the SRAM Dual Drive, I have tuned the click-box already and the bike seems to be shifting correctly on the repair stand.
I noticed that at gear 1 (Downhill) the sound is pretty fine but when I shift to gear 2 (Flat) or 3 (Uphill) there is a noticeable but constant "clicker" sound.
Is this a normal internal hub characteristic or should I be worried?
I noticed that at gear 1 (Downhill) the sound is pretty fine but when I shift to gear 2 (Flat) or 3 (Uphill) there is a noticeable but constant "clicker" sound.
Is this a normal internal hub characteristic or should I be worried?