Question about wheel truing
10-26-18, 08:14 AM
#1
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Question about wheel truing
So the the other day I experienced a broken rear spoke during my ride. No big deal. It's happened plenty of times. Obviously the wheel goes out of true when this happens. When I got home I replaced the spoke, put the wheel in my Park TS-1, tensioned and trued it. Lateral (side to side) that is. I'm pretty good at that and can usually get it spot on. But the radial (vertical) truing is what I'm not so good at. In this case it's not really off by much (not even noticeable during subsequent ride) so I just left it alone. So...my question is...will/can a wheel re-gain radial true through the stressing of a ride? My thought is that if the other spokes aren't tightened that the pressures of riding on it might cause the "bump" or "flat spot" to even out. Is this crazy wishful thinking, or can it actually happen?
Dan
Dan
Last edited by _ForceD_; 10-26-18 at 09:50 AM.
10-26-18, 08:23 AM
#2
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The out of round condition relates to inconsistent spoke length after tensioning. I can't see that correcting itself while riding. Of course the wheel will stress relieve itself while riding if you don't manually do it after tensioning, but that's sort of a different subject.
10-26-18, 08:26 AM
#3
Mechanic/Tourist
If the rim itself is out of round - typically a flat spot - riding will not fix the problem. If it's due to spoke tension you would need a bit of luck for it to come back into round.
10-26-18, 08:30 AM
#4
Senior Member
I don't have scientific data to support this, but my guess is that most of the force from the road to the rim would be distributed around the rim via tire pressure, therefore there wouldn't be enough force to achieve that correction. You can ride without tire and see if that corrects things 
10-26-18, 02:28 PM
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How sure are you that the wheel was in perfect radial true before you had the broken spoke?
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10-26-18, 02:39 PM
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The obvious answer is because the rider didn't notice any problem, so there couldn't have been one... Andy (while this sounds a bit snarky, it is human nature to assume the lack of awareness of a problem is the same as there being no problem)
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AndrewRStewart
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10-27-18, 05:43 AM
#7
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No, your wheel won’t get round. Radially truing is hard for me too. Just adjust tension of spokes where you have an issue in very small increments and you should b able to get it true without throwing the wheel out of true laterally.. If you have to have significantly different tension in one spot to achieve radial true, you may have a dented rim.
The other thing that is hard, but you may want to check given your broken spoke issue, is spoke tension. Is your tension fairly even all the way around? If not, you may want detension and start fresh tensioning and truing the wheel.
The other thing that is hard, but you may want to check given your broken spoke issue, is spoke tension. Is your tension fairly even all the way around? If not, you may want detension and start fresh tensioning and truing the wheel.
10-27-18, 05:55 AM
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I"ll join the chorus. Don't expect any truing problem, whether lateral, radial, dish, or spoke tension, to sort itself out under load.
Radial truing is an important skill in wheel building and maintenance, and it's no more difficult than any other aspect of the wheel. It could add a few minutes, if that, to the job.
Radial truing is an important skill in wheel building and maintenance, and it's no more difficult than any other aspect of the wheel. It could add a few minutes, if that, to the job.
10-27-18, 07:22 AM
#9
Senior Member
When building a new wheel, get radial true first, then lateral, then back to radial, then lateral, back and forth in smaller and smaller increments. It is a little harder when fixing a single spoke because you don't feel the need to start from scratch.
10-27-18, 03:34 PM
#10
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el. If it was way off I would detension the wheel and start from scratch, I tend to work on radial true at first leaving the lateral until tension begins to build in the wheel. I find as the tension goes up it is more difficult to correct radial problems. I shoot for .5mm or less.
10-30-18, 10:38 AM
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As others have said, detension completely and start with radial truing. I work on low spots first but I also work on high spots, back and forth, very incrementally. At this point it is not necessarily perfect but then I check lateral true to gt it to acceptable level. Then back to radial true. As tension builds, adjustments are smaller and smaller. I also periodically check for even tension with a tension meter.
10-30-18, 09:27 PM
#12
Senior Member
Here is a problem I just experienced that happens more pften than I care to admit. I will be working on a wheel where there is one spoke where the nipple is really tight and hard to turn, to the pointt I start rounding of the brass nipple, even though the spoke tension is about the same as other spokes. One one think the nipple would turn just the same as the others.
It just happened again tonight. I was truing up a wheel after replacing a nipple that kept coming loose (different spoke) when I noticed a lot of uneveness in the spoke tension around the wheel. The wheel is a couple of years old and was originally machine built, so I decided to detension to see if I could get more even tension (32h H Plus Son archetype rim on ultegra hub, 3x lacing). I managed to get things true and tension fairly even, within 10% variance all the way around. But I have one spoke where the nipple is near impossible to turn yet measures at about the same tensiion as the other driveside spokes. Very frustrating. I expect that it will hold spoke tension and the wheel is sound, but I don’t think I can live with it.
It just happened again tonight. I was truing up a wheel after replacing a nipple that kept coming loose (different spoke) when I noticed a lot of uneveness in the spoke tension around the wheel. The wheel is a couple of years old and was originally machine built, so I decided to detension to see if I could get more even tension (32h H Plus Son archetype rim on ultegra hub, 3x lacing). I managed to get things true and tension fairly even, within 10% variance all the way around. But I have one spoke where the nipple is near impossible to turn yet measures at about the same tensiion as the other driveside spokes. Very frustrating. I expect that it will hold spoke tension and the wheel is sound, but I don’t think I can live with it.
10-30-18, 09:33 PM
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Sounds like the threads are buggered up. Have you tried to replace the tight nipple and see what results? Andy
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AndrewRStewart
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10-30-18, 09:40 PM
#14
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Not yet. I didn’t really notice it until I was almost doen with final tensioning so powered through. But even though the wheel is rolling good and I got the tension right, I will replace the nipple to see if that does the trick.
11-02-18, 11:59 AM
#15
Senior Member
Broken spoke "plenty of times"? On the same wheel? If so you are past due to replace the full basket of spokes. Spokes fail from fatigue, when one is fatigued they are most likely all fatigued. Unless it was just a badly built wheel in the first place.
When nipples stick put some oil on them. If you have enough tension in your build oil will not make them loosen.
Yes, radial true is just different and usually a touch more difficult. On rims that are going to be straight, not old, cheap, or buggered rims, final tension pulls the rim round and will even pop out minor flat spots. If you aren't verifying tension with a meter you really have no idea how much tension you have or how even it is.
When nipples stick put some oil on them. If you have enough tension in your build oil will not make them loosen.
Yes, radial true is just different and usually a touch more difficult. On rims that are going to be straight, not old, cheap, or buggered rims, final tension pulls the rim round and will even pop out minor flat spots. If you aren't verifying tension with a meter you really have no idea how much tension you have or how even it is.
