RowdyTI

Do you think there is a benefit to having one wheel a little closer to the one side of the frame and the other one a little closer to the other? I seem to think this could increase the bike's stability. What do you think?

jj1091

I think you'll be riding sideways. I think for better stability you should try training wheels. I think bike wheels are gyroscopes and therefore inherently stable. I think some folks think too much. I think I'll sign off now.

blamester

How would it make it more stable?
The spinning wheels keep the bike upright.
Let a bike roll down a hill and it keeps going with no rider.
Your idea makes it awkward to turn and less stable.
There are setups like you describe but they use two sets of wheel like a car or some with three like a trike.
None work as a bike.

thumpism 

It would become a two-track vehicle with the wheels staggered to be in the two tracks. Most folks would call that bike bent.

HillRider

What is your mechanism for thinking mis-alignment will somehow make the bike more stable? BTW, bikes don't rely on "gyroscopic stability" to remain upright and the spinning wheels aren't the reason they do.

Tamiya

rosefarts

Someone once told me something that I assumed was bs. He said that perfectly aligned rotational systems are more prone to wobble than less than perfect.

His theory was that the precision item doesn't sluff off outside variation and this can build into a harmonic instability and there is a wobble.

An imperfect system is less efficient but dampens the harmonic instability and doesn't allow it to build.



Like is said, I didn't believe it. However, the most stable road bike I've ever owned is a handmade steel thing, not something off a mold or with a CAD mock-up. The least stable was a mass produced Litespeed Vortex that was utterly perfect, except it sucked.

I've seen the opposite too. Tri-spokes in a cross wind are unstable. Less than round wheels above 50 are terrifying too.

I don't espouse any theory here. I wonder if this idea is where the OP got his.

BTW, it would mean right turns require a different force than left. Not a fast design.

Hoopdriver

Ask Arend Schwab. Here is a link to his on bike stability

tyrion

The physics of it wouldn't make it wouldn't be any stable and the asymmetry would make it harder to ride - braking would pull to one side, etc.

RowdyTI

Even if we're talking about a small precision offset of just 3 mm per wheel?

That's a good Ted Talk. The extreme of the two wheels offset is that the bike stands on its own. The theory is that a small precision offset would increase stability without being noticeably clumsy.

thumpism 

Should be easy enough to do. Redish your front wheel to one side and redish your rear wheel to the other. There's your offset. Tweak your brakes to suit, try it out and get back to us.

Marcus_Ti

You should actually try this with ...and then come back and edit your post.

Kapusta

cny-bikeman

I think you are on to something here, but to make it even better just a 2nd wheel in back! It would not only be more stable, but each wheel and tire on such a "tri-bike would have to carry less weight, so they would be less stressed. More stable, fewer flats, longer lasting wheels - what's not to like? Of course for the ultimate in stability 4 wheels would be even better.

thumpism 

And maybe a motor...

fietsbob

Trail measurement is a number .. distance between steering axis line
and plumb line down from the hub..
more trail is harder to turn off it's line.. stabile

Peter Fonda's motorcycle in 'Easy Rider' had a lot of it,
my small wheel folding bike , considerably less...




.

tyrion

I don't see it standing on its own. There are still only 2 ground contact points.

fietsbob

Engineer , British bike Designer Mike Burrows, in his book on bike design,

described a long wheelbase recumbent he made with 2 parallel wheel tracks ..

CliffordK

I might have to try one of those one of these days.

I have always felt that a little flex in a system can be of benefit, so walking along even a small log with a little flex may be easier than walking on a curb or railroad track with no flex.

So, one may be able to compensate for the moving board... Although, perhaps my 50 year old body is too old for it???

However, so much of those scooter things appear to be silly toys, why not just walk, jog, or ride one's bike?

AnkleWork

This forum has always preferred fantasy and speculation over verified fact.

Jeff Wills

OK, then here's the course materials for a college-level class on two-wheel vehicle design and stability: https://web.calpoly.edu/~wpatters/lords.html
Bill Patterson's students were required to design and build bicycle-type vehicles for his class. Some were distinctly odd looking, but those that used his formulae were rideable.

The BikeE tandem was designed using his principles:

AnkleWork

So I guess that you are saying that the OP's idea conforms to those academic principles.

Jeff Wills

I didn't say that. In fact, I'm not sure what the original poster is describing.

AnkleWork

I left out non-sequiturs.

fietsbob

Stayer bikes, Motor-paced racing, are very stable, at speed,
long trail because the axle plumb line is far behind the steering axis..