Bent quick release skewer
12-05-22, 11:58 AM
#51
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The my skewer is better than your skewer argument doesn't really solve anything.
That said, I agree that all aluminum, or those with aluminum attach points, are not very good; but I imagine those are no longer found on new bikes.
There are external-cam skewers that are steel, except for the actual lever that seem to be fine. I have some Fulcrum and even Alex that are primarily all steel. At any rate they are probably much better than these XT and Dura Ace internal-cam skewers.
https://www.cycleryusa.com/articles/...call-pg351.htm
John
That said, I agree that all aluminum, or those with aluminum attach points, are not very good; but I imagine those are no longer found on new bikes.
There are external-cam skewers that are steel, except for the actual lever that seem to be fine. I have some Fulcrum and even Alex that are primarily all steel. At any rate they are probably much better than these XT and Dura Ace internal-cam skewers.
https://www.cycleryusa.com/articles/...call-pg351.htm
John
12-05-22, 12:01 PM
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The issue with ti is not bending, it's stretching -- which is undesirable in a QR skewer.
So, you're basically saying the same thing as the poster with whom you are arguing -good skewers can be had for $2. Okay.
Because that's pretty much what most skewers are made of.
You are really something. I think you're going to end up on a bunch of people's ignore lists.
So, you're basically saying the same thing as the poster with whom you are arguing -good skewers can be had for $2. Okay.
Because that's pretty much what most skewers are made of.
You are really something. I think you're going to end up on a bunch of people's ignore lists.
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12-05-22, 12:15 PM
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12-05-22, 12:28 PM
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I thought the later (10 years?) Trek recall had to do with the threading and not clamping the skewer tight.
John
12-05-22, 12:39 PM
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I might be wrong, but I thought the 2005 skewer recall had to do with the actual skewer material itself. I'll have to re-read it, but I thought the ones with a "silver" skewer only were recalled. I do remember checking the ones I had and they were black.
I thought the later (10 years?) Trek recall had to do with the threading and not clamping the skewer tight.
John
I thought the later (10 years?) Trek recall had to do with the threading and not clamping the skewer tight.
John
i found several in my bins and scrapped them... i recall them as being made by Formula, but it may have been Joytech...... multiple other brands of bikes used them too...
update.. after thinking on it more, the levers were most likely Joytech... and here's a news release on the recall... https://www.thebikelane.com/about/tr...call-pg970.htm
Last edited by maddog34; 12-05-22 at 01:00 PM.
12-05-22, 12:43 PM
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the Trek skewer Recall was for the possibility of the lever getting into the spokes or a disc and locking the front wheel while the lever was in the closed position... they simply "closed" TOO Far.
i found several in my bins and scrapped them... i recall them as being made by Formula, but it may have been Joytech...... multiple other brands of bikes used them too...
i found several in my bins and scrapped them... i recall them as being made by Formula, but it may have been Joytech...... multiple other brands of bikes used them too...
John
12-05-22, 01:38 PM
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check my updated post above ... it has been 7 years since that recall... and it's worth checking for those killer QRs.... some open AND CLOSE too far...!!! I just swap ina better one for free when i find them...not everyone has an akro bin of a hundred plus lower grade skewers lying around, though... 
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12-06-22, 08:17 PM
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One issue that I feel is not talked about WRT external cam QRs is that most (maybe all except Simplex from what many here call the "classic" era and maybe the 1990s Mavic ones) use a plastic "pressure plate" that is curved to better fit with the cam's shape. This plastic likely (I think dies) has a softer compressive spec and as one increases the cam's pressure the plastic can't pass along the complete cam force. Then add in the usual Al material used in many end caps of skewer and (to me) it's no surprise that these can't retain a wheel in a frame as well as steel end capped internal cammed versions. Andy (who hasn't done any experiments on this theory)
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12-09-22, 10:29 AM
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Was it steel, titanium or aluminum or what?
Get a DT Swiss steel one. Actually, get two, one for the back and one for the front. The design is superior to any conventional quick release (including my Dura Ace internal cam). Skip titanium. It stretches (and bends) more easily, and costs much more.
The DT Swiss steel skewers are the next best thing to thru-axles.
Get a DT Swiss steel one. Actually, get two, one for the back and one for the front. The design is superior to any conventional quick release (including my Dura Ace internal cam). Skip titanium. It stretches (and bends) more easily, and costs much more.
The DT Swiss steel skewers are the next best thing to thru-axles.
Something bent that skewer. Impact? Wheeling the bike past a doorway? (Usually the RD hits first and you notice.) Or perhaps the skewer nut isn't sitting flat. Look at the outside flat of the dropout and inside of the nut. Or the dropout is askew. (Are you bending or breaking axles?) With everything straight and proper, any skewer, even cheap ones, should stay straight for years and decades.
Was it bent in the center section or the threaded end that sticks out? either can be straightened... put it back into the axle up to the center of the bent area.. apply a bit of force... check it... re-insert and apply additional pressure.. check again.. straight? ok.. if not, rinse/repeat. Alternate method.. use a soft hammer(brass, in my case) and SMACK that sucker on the high side while it's on a piece of flat wood.... my workbench has several impressions from skewer threads in it....
and everyone needs to realize that STEEL IS FLEXIBLE... and STEEL FRAMES DO FLEX..
"Was it steel, titanium or aluminum or what?"
ALUMINUM SKEWER RODS? Really??? that is STUPID. wow.
As to titanium.. it Stretches to nearly 50% more than it's length before it breaks... Steel wants to break WAY Sooner... and no one has yet mentioned Titanium ALLOYS and their Aerospace capable qualities... All titanium we end users see is Alloyed before distribution...Raw Titanium is nearly impossible to machine/form/use... and Steel is an Alloy too, literally THOUSANDS of steel alloy combinations exist... Cro-mo is a range of STEEL alloys., etc.
the OP or someone else whacked the threaded end of the Skewer on something then found the bend later... a very common thing, IMO. if the bend is less than 20 degrees or so,straighten that sucker and go riding.... unless it's an "aluminum" skewer rod, then sue the company for endangering you life .
A bit on Titanium alloys... https://material-properties.org/stee...pros-and-cons/
ALUMINUM Skewer Rods? Really? SMH. Examples, please.. i need the laughs.
and everyone needs to realize that STEEL IS FLEXIBLE... and STEEL FRAMES DO FLEX..
"Was it steel, titanium or aluminum or what?"
ALUMINUM SKEWER RODS? Really??? that is STUPID. wow.
As to titanium.. it Stretches to nearly 50% more than it's length before it breaks... Steel wants to break WAY Sooner... and no one has yet mentioned Titanium ALLOYS and their Aerospace capable qualities... All titanium we end users see is Alloyed before distribution...Raw Titanium is nearly impossible to machine/form/use... and Steel is an Alloy too, literally THOUSANDS of steel alloy combinations exist... Cro-mo is a range of STEEL alloys., etc.
the OP or someone else whacked the threaded end of the Skewer on something then found the bend later... a very common thing, IMO. if the bend is less than 20 degrees or so,straighten that sucker and go riding.... unless it's an "aluminum" skewer rod, then sue the company for endangering you life .
A bit on Titanium alloys... https://material-properties.org/stee...pros-and-cons/
ALUMINUM Skewer Rods? Really? SMH. Examples, please.. i need the laughs.
Let's focus on the basics. Skewers don't magically bend. So, either it was bent or there's a reason it bent.
Normally there's no load on a skewer other than the tension from the cam, which wouldnt cause bending, so the key is figuring out what isn't normal.
So, broken axle, axle not properly supported in the dropout, dropout face not flat, QR accidently tightened with wheel half way into dropout, QR end banged into when mounting or transporting the wheel (my hunch).
In any case, arguing about QQ strength or design is pointless. The skewer isn't the problem, something else is
Normally there's no load on a skewer other than the tension from the cam, which wouldnt cause bending, so the key is figuring out what isn't normal.
So, broken axle, axle not properly supported in the dropout, dropout face not flat, QR accidently tightened with wheel half way into dropout, QR end banged into when mounting or transporting the wheel (my hunch).
In any case, arguing about QQ strength or design is pointless. The skewer isn't the problem, something else is
Yes, its obvious something bent the skewer.
no broken or bent axle, axle is properly supported in the dropout.
dropout face not flat - I will check how much I can check this with visual inspection, but I doubt it.
OP: in your original post to start this thread, you say the axle "looks OK".
Did you physically remove the axle from the hub to determine that? Did you "boresight" down the QR channel (possibly not definitive, but might show a problem)?
If all you did was look at the parts of the axle you could see while it was still installed in the hub, it's entirely possible the axle could be bent or broken in an internal location that is not visible from the outside.
Did you physically remove the axle from the hub to determine that? Did you "boresight" down the QR channel (possibly not definitive, but might show a problem)?
If all you did was look at the parts of the axle you could see while it was still installed in the hub, it's entirely possible the axle could be bent or broken in an internal location that is not visible from the outside.
All the bickering! Yay! 
Has anyone considered the possibility that the OP installed the skewer with the conical spring backwards? A bent skewer from this is plausible because the fat end of the spring prevents the axle from nesting in the dropout properly. The OP, not knowing any better then cinched down the cam lever bending the skewer because the acorn is only half supported.
Happens all the time among people who just don't know what "right" looks like.
Has anyone considered the possibility that the OP installed the skewer with the conical spring backwards? A bent skewer from this is plausible because the fat end of the spring prevents the axle from nesting in the dropout properly. The OP, not knowing any better then cinched down the cam lever bending the skewer because the acorn is only half supported.
Happens all the time among people who just don't know what "right" looks like.
When new one arrives I will and go for a ride again.
I made a picture if the screwer (looks good quality to me in my hand) . Its only bent slightly toward the screw end (not so much visible on the picture but you can feel it when screwing )
Also , the picture of the dropout.
https://imgur.com/a/CVyK1G2
12-09-22, 10:43 AM
#60
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I made a picture if the screwer (looks good quality to me in my hand) . Its only bent slightly toward the screw end (not so much visible on the picture but you can feel it when screwing )
Also , the picture of the dropout.
https://imgur.com/a/CVyK1G2
The good news is skewers are inexpensive. Yours doesn't look to be bent too bad. I'd replace as a precautionary measure but wouldn't feel overly compelled to be super urgent about it. If it were the front, especially a front with disc brakes, there'd be no question. I'd replace it immediately. The rear? Not so much.
Chalk it up to the "lessons learned" category.
12-09-22, 10:44 AM
#61
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I checked the axle by rolling on flat surface.
I made a picture if the screwer (looks good quality to me in my hand) . Its only bent slightly toward the screw end (not so much visible on the picture but you can feel it when screwing )
https://imgur.com/a/CVyK1G2
I made a picture if the screwer (looks good quality to me in my hand) . Its only bent slightly toward the screw end (not so much visible on the picture but you can feel it when screwing )
https://imgur.com/a/CVyK1G2
The skewer in that photo might well be straightenable if done carefully. But as inexpensive as skewers are, combined with how critical they are for safety, might lead me to replace the set with good-quality internal cam skewers anyway.
FWIW: you can test whether your skewer is steel or not with a magnet. Steel is generally magnetic (some forms of stainless are considered non-magnetic). AL and Ti aren't.
12-09-22, 11:37 AM
#62
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I will throw this into the mix. This is from Sheldon Brown's website. He is long gone but his wisdom about bikes is still alive and well.Enclosed cam:
The original type of quick release skewer, invented by Tullio Campagnolo, features a steel cam surrounded by a solid metal body. The body is the part that moves back and forth as you flip the lever, and usually has teeth to press against the left dropout.
The cam is well-shielded against contamination, and can be lubricated by applying a couple of drops of oil every couple of years.
Exposed cam:
Sometime in the '80s, a variant type of skewer was introduced, one that is less expensive to manufacture, and is sometimes a bit lighter. This type uses a split external cam that straddles the end of the skewer. External-cam skewers use a curved plastic washer between the cam and the toothed metal washer that presses against the dropout.
This type was originally marketed as an "upgrade" because it could be made a little bit lighter.
Despite the marketing hype associated with these "boutique" skewers, they are actually considerably inferior in functionality to the traditional type. They are often seen under rather prestigious names, as was the one photographed here. (I Photoshopped the logo off, so as not to pick on one particular brand.)
The exposed cam cannot be kept as clean and well-lubricated as the shielded one can.
In addition, the exposed cam has a larger diameter, (typically 16 mm vs. 7 mm for an enclosed cam) so the friction is acting on a longer moment arm (the radius of the cam.)
The result is that the exposed-cam type provides very much less clamping force for a given amount of hand force on the lever.
Fortunately, the move toward "boutique" skewers happened after the industry had mostly moved to frames with vertical dropouts and forks with "lawyer lips."
The exposed-cam skewers are generally OK for vertical dropouts in back, and for forks with "lawyer lips", but should not be relied on with horizontal dropouts or plain forks.
Enclosed cam:
The original type of quick release skewer, invented by Tullio Campagnolo, features a steel cam surrounded by a solid metal body. The body is the part that moves back and forth as you flip the lever, and usually has teeth to press against the left dropout.The cam is well-shielded against contamination, and can be lubricated by applying a couple of drops of oil every couple of years.
Exposed cam:
Sometime in the '80s, a variant type of skewer was introduced, one that is less expensive to manufacture, and is sometimes a bit lighter. This type uses a split external cam that straddles the end of the skewer. External-cam skewers use a curved plastic washer between the cam and the toothed metal washer that presses against the dropout.This type was originally marketed as an "upgrade" because it could be made a little bit lighter.
Despite the marketing hype associated with these "boutique" skewers, they are actually considerably inferior in functionality to the traditional type. They are often seen under rather prestigious names, as was the one photographed here. (I Photoshopped the logo off, so as not to pick on one particular brand.)
The exposed cam cannot be kept as clean and well-lubricated as the shielded one can.
In addition, the exposed cam has a larger diameter, (typically 16 mm vs. 7 mm for an enclosed cam) so the friction is acting on a longer moment arm (the radius of the cam.)
The result is that the exposed-cam type provides very much less clamping force for a given amount of hand force on the lever.
Fortunately, the move toward "boutique" skewers happened after the industry had mostly moved to frames with vertical dropouts and forks with "lawyer lips."
The exposed-cam skewers are generally OK for vertical dropouts in back, and for forks with "lawyer lips", but should not be relied on with horizontal dropouts or plain forks.
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12-09-22, 01:10 PM
#63
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This is just a question in passing. How straight is the wheel in the dropouts?
If the axle is not completely seated in the dropouts, (the dropouts are not parallel enough), the skewer will not move but the the axle will. I'm not saying this is happening, but I've not had a skewer bend like that before. Of course this would be more noticeable with rim brakes.
John
If the axle is not completely seated in the dropouts, (the dropouts are not parallel enough), the skewer will not move but the the axle will. I'm not saying this is happening, but I've not had a skewer bend like that before. Of course this would be more noticeable with rim brakes.
John
12-10-22, 07:24 AM
#64
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I will throw this into the mix. This is from Sheldon Brown's website. He is long gone but his wisdom about bikes is still alive and well.
[size=13px]External-cam skewers use a curved plastic washer between the cam and the toothed metal washer that presses against the dropout.[/size]
The result is that the exposed-cam type provides very much less clamping force for a given amount of hand force on the lever.And while I can understand you need more hand force on external cam, as long as you can still exert enough force to clamp sufficiently, then well, your wheel is clamped sufficiently.
12-10-22, 07:42 AM
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I haven't had seen an external cam QR with a plastic washer in long long time. Are these a thing?
And while I can understand you need more hand force on external cam, as long as you can still exert enough force to clamp sufficiently, then well, your wheel is clamped sufficiently.
And while I can understand you need more hand force on external cam, as long as you can still exert enough force to clamp sufficiently, then well, your wheel is clamped sufficiently.
Look, I didn't want to join those giving subjective advice on internal/external cams and that's why I simply posted what Sheldon Brown's thoughts are. He is still regarded as an authority on certain aspects of bicycling and his website remains of great value. You can't argue that the man didn't love bicycles and tried to be helpful in sharing his experience and knowledge.
Mr. Brown gives several reasons why he believes internal cams, or enclosed cams are superior. You can choose to trust him or not. If you own external cam skewers and they are working fine, great! Keep using them! But he offers some perspective, that's all.
What I was hoping to do is to provide some information, and folks can take it or leave it. I don't care for all of the bickering, personally. Makes me not want to come to certain areas of this forum.
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12-20-22, 05:57 AM
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12-20-22, 08:28 PM
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12-25-22, 04:26 AM
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I've done the calculations. All three materials (7075 alloy, 4130 steel, and 6-4 Ti) are actually strong enough for use in a QR skewer given an estimated 500kgf clamp force and a 5mm skewer shaft, albeit not by a comfortably large margin for alloy (probably one reason alloy skewers are either very uncommon or aren't made). However, an alloy shaft would elongate nearly 3x the amount of steel under tension; a Ti shaft, nearly 2x as much. IMO the difference in elongation makes steel a better choice.
Last edited by Hondo6; 12-25-22 at 04:31 AM.
12-25-22, 04:35 AM
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Whether anyone makes alloy shaft skewers or not is irrelevant. I was simply giving the OP a "quick and dirty" test method to test whether a skewer was steel or not, and advising him that a few steel alloys (stainless steel is still steel, whether magnetic or not) exist that may elude detection using the suggested test method.
I've done the calculations. All three materials (7075 alloy, 4130 steel, and 6-4 Ti) are actually strong enough for use in a QR skewer given an estimated 500kgf clamp force and a 5mm skewer shaft, albeit not by a comfortably large margin for alloy (probably one reason alloy skewers are either very uncommon or aren't made). However, alloy elongates nearly 3x the amount of steel under tension; Ti, nearly 2x as much. IMO the latter fact makes steel a better choice.
I've done the calculations. All three materials (7075 alloy, 4130 steel, and 6-4 Ti) are actually strong enough for use in a QR skewer given an estimated 500kgf clamp force and a 5mm skewer shaft, albeit not by a comfortably large margin for alloy (probably one reason alloy skewers are either very uncommon or aren't made). However, alloy elongates nearly 3x the amount of steel under tension; Ti, nearly 2x as much. IMO the latter fact makes steel a better choice.
There's nothing to be gained by putting a magnet on a skewer shaft aside from developing a phobia about perfectly adequate materials. Of course steel is the strongest choice - it is the strongest metal by volume there is. But bikes aren't made of all steel for good reasons.
12-25-22, 04:48 AM
#73
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But why are you advising the OP to test his skewer material? Skewer shafts aren't prone to breakage, and you essentially suggested that some of them are made of fragile aluminum.
There's nothing to be gained by putting a magnet on a skewer shaft aside from developing a phobia about perfectly adequate materials. Of course steel is the strongest choice - it is the strongest metal by volume there is. But bikes aren't made of all steel for good reasons.
There's nothing to be gained by putting a magnet on a skewer shaft aside from developing a phobia about perfectly adequate materials. Of course steel is the strongest choice - it is the strongest metal by volume there is. But bikes aren't made of all steel for good reasons.
Other than that mention, I've reviewed the thread and don's see where I've discussed alloy skewers (or their strength) prior to my earlier reply to you today. Ti skewers and their weight, yes - but not alloy.
12-25-22, 04:57 AM
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The OP stated above that he didn't know whether his skewer was steel or not. I was simply advising him how to determine that quickly with something he might have readily available, with a fair (but not perfect) degree of certainty. Since Ti and alloy skewers had also been discussed on the thread prior to my comment, I indicated (also for the OP's benefit) that those materials were nonmagnetic.
Other than that mention, I've reviewed the thread and don's see where I've discussed alloy skewers (or their strength) prior to my earlier reply to you today. Ti skewers and their weight, yes - but not alloy.
Other than that mention, I've reviewed the thread and don's see where I've discussed alloy skewers (or their strength) prior to my earlier reply to you today. Ti skewers and their weight, yes - but not alloy.
There is a lot of discussion in this thread about materials, and like many discussions about materials it obscures what is important with a bunch of stuff that has nothing to do with the OP's skewer being bent. But it does create misleading fear.
What I didn't see anywhere in this thread is someone pointing out that it could have been bent at any time prior to being assembled. It is pretty easy to catch a skewer end on the edge of the workbench while handling wheels.
