Is car-free becoming mainstream?
12-05-16, 09:53 AM
#276
Senior Member
...and, 'offloading costs onto others' is code for Americans driving their SUVs are causing global warming, hence: the LCF movement is needed to save the world.
12-05-16, 10:33 AM
#277
Prefers Cicero
12-05-16, 11:00 AM
#278
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If I understand cooker correctly, he simply meant that personal motor vehicle use is, in fact, heavily subsidized. Those of us who own/drive or otherwise make use of personal motor vehicles simply do not pay anywhere near the actual 'hard' costs of our activity on a per-km basis. Those deficits are made up from somewhere, and that 'somewhere' is local/municipal, provincial/state, and federal treasuries.The question of more extensive soft costs (e.g. environmental, health-care related) can be debated; the question whether or not that subsidization is either necessary or justifiable, in its present or some modified form, can be debated; but the existence of that effective subsidy is beyond question.
One can make that statement without asserting either expressly or by implication anything about who or what is causing global warming (if global warming is indeed occurring) nor about whether or not "the LCF movement is needed to save the world." Those are entirely separate questions.
12-05-16, 11:05 AM
#279
Senior Member
12-05-16, 11:50 AM
#280
Prefers Cicero
Since what you just said bears zero resemblance to my position, one really has to wonder who is being blinded by ideology here.
12-05-16, 12:12 PM
#281
Senior Member
Love of bikes and the sport of cycling is where everyone on the bike forums are at, except for a few: LCF as a movement -- which primarily is an urban phenomenon -- has nothing to do with that.
Today, one of the most powerful religions in the Western World is environmentalism. Environmentalism seems to be the religion of choice for urban atheists. Why do I say it’s a religion? Well, just look at the beliefs. If you look carefully, you see that environmentalism is in fact a perfect 21st century remapping of traditional Judeo-Christian beliefs and myths.
There’s an initial Eden, a paradise, a state of grace and unity with nature, there’s a fall from grace into a state of pollution as a result of eating from the tree of knowledge, and as a result of our actions there is a judgment day coming for us all. We are all energy sinners, doomed to die, unless we seek salvation, which is now called sustainability. Sustainability is salvation in the church of the environment. Just as organic food is its communion, that pesticide-free wafer that the right people with the right beliefs, imbibe.
Eden, the fall of man, the loss of grace, the coming doomsday—these are deeply held mythic structures. They are profoundly conservative beliefs. They may even be hard-wired in the brain, for all I know. I certainly don’t want to talk anybody out of them, as I don’t want to talk anybody out of a belief that Jesus Christ is the son of God who rose from the dead. But the reason I don’t want to talk anybody out of these beliefs is that I know that I can’t talk anybody out of them. These are not facts that can be argued. These are issues of faith. ~Michael Crichton
There’s an initial Eden, a paradise, a state of grace and unity with nature, there’s a fall from grace into a state of pollution as a result of eating from the tree of knowledge, and as a result of our actions there is a judgment day coming for us all. We are all energy sinners, doomed to die, unless we seek salvation, which is now called sustainability. Sustainability is salvation in the church of the environment. Just as organic food is its communion, that pesticide-free wafer that the right people with the right beliefs, imbibe.
Eden, the fall of man, the loss of grace, the coming doomsday—these are deeply held mythic structures. They are profoundly conservative beliefs. They may even be hard-wired in the brain, for all I know. I certainly don’t want to talk anybody out of them, as I don’t want to talk anybody out of a belief that Jesus Christ is the son of God who rose from the dead. But the reason I don’t want to talk anybody out of these beliefs is that I know that I can’t talk anybody out of them. These are not facts that can be argued. These are issues of faith. ~Michael Crichton
12-05-16, 12:59 PM
#282
Prefers Cicero
https://www.bikeforums.net/search.php?searchid=663117
12-05-16, 02:07 PM
#283
Senior Member
... tacitly admitting the urban-centered LCF movement really has nothing to do with the Bike Forums where thousands of people -- who I feel more accurately represent the mainstream -- meet to discuss their love of bikes and cycling but, how does that make me among a relative few believers in the anti-modernist religion of LCF movement?
12-05-16, 03:32 PM
#284
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... tacitly admitting the urban-centered LCF movement really has nothing to do with the Bike Forums where thousands of people -- who I feel more accurately represent the mainstream -- meet to discuss their love of bikes and cycling but, how does that make me among a relative few believers in the anti-modernist religion of LCF movement?
I would not be compelled to live car free without a bicycle. It wouldn't be worth the trouble.
12-05-16, 03:39 PM
#285
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Mod note: if posters don't have something to contribute to the discussion of this thread, please leave. Repeated vehement arguments against LCF are not in the spirit of this thread.
12-05-16, 03:50 PM
#286
Senior Member
Today, one of the most powerful religions in the Western World is environmentalism. Environmentalism seems to be the religion of choice for urban atheists. Why do I say it’s a religion? Well, just look at the beliefs. If you look carefully, you see that environmentalism is in fact a perfect 21st century remapping of traditional Judeo-Christian beliefs and myths.
There’s an initial Eden, a paradise, a state of grace and unity with nature, there’s a fall from grace into a state of pollution as a result of eating from the tree of knowledge, and as a result of our actions there is a judgment day coming for us all. We are all energy sinners, doomed to die, unless we seek salvation, which is now called sustainability. Sustainability is salvation in the church of the environment. Just as organic food is its communion, that pesticide-free wafer that the right people with the right beliefs, imbibe.
Eden, the fall of man, the loss of grace, the coming doomsday—these are deeply held mythic structures. They are profoundly conservative beliefs. They may even be hard-wired in the brain, for all I know. I certainly don’t want to talk anybody out of them, as I don’t want to talk anybody out of a belief that Jesus Christ is the son of God who rose from the dead. But the reason I don’t want to talk anybody out of these beliefs is that I know that I can’t talk anybody out of them. These are not facts that can be argued. These are issues of faith. ~Michael Crichton
There’s an initial Eden, a paradise, a state of grace and unity with nature, there’s a fall from grace into a state of pollution as a result of eating from the tree of knowledge, and as a result of our actions there is a judgment day coming for us all. We are all energy sinners, doomed to die, unless we seek salvation, which is now called sustainability. Sustainability is salvation in the church of the environment. Just as organic food is its communion, that pesticide-free wafer that the right people with the right beliefs, imbibe.
Eden, the fall of man, the loss of grace, the coming doomsday—these are deeply held mythic structures. They are profoundly conservative beliefs. They may even be hard-wired in the brain, for all I know. I certainly don’t want to talk anybody out of them, as I don’t want to talk anybody out of a belief that Jesus Christ is the son of God who rose from the dead. But the reason I don’t want to talk anybody out of these beliefs is that I know that I can’t talk anybody out of them. These are not facts that can be argued. These are issues of faith. ~Michael Crichton
OTOH, it is something of a status symbol, and an indicator of wealth. If one can afford to live CF in an urban area, generally you are paying through the nose for that privilege -- much higher cost of living, which mere lack of an automobile and associated costs do not mitigate.
And as a cyclist, one might also be buying into Campbell's Hero mythos...
12-05-16, 04:06 PM
#287
Prefers Cicero
... tacitly admitting the urban-centered LCF movement really has nothing to do with the Bike Forums where thousands of people -- who I feel more accurately represent the mainstream -- meet to discuss their love of bikes and cycling but, how does that make me among a relative few believers in the anti-modernist religion of LCF movement?
Last edited by cooker; 12-05-16 at 08:50 PM.
12-05-16, 05:18 PM
#288
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drinking oil
Well and argument for LCF can be made for the recent problem with the pipe line. It will span four states goes thru Native American land and was supposed to go under a river that contains a major water supply source. The pipe line will move something like,, 40k barrels a day when complete. When you think about it from a view from afar ,,,, you know humans have gone crazy
with car production.
But we must move forward with production our economy depends on it . Well at least the economy according to the powerful oil companies. I believe the old saying is true however "be the change you want to see"
with car production. But we must move forward with production our economy depends on it . Well at least the economy according to the powerful oil companies. I believe the old saying is true however "be the change you want to see"
Last edited by rossiny; 12-05-16 at 05:22 PM.
12-05-16, 05:22 PM
#289
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Well and argument for LCF can be made for the recent problem with the pipe line. It will span four states goes thru Native American land and was supposed to go under a river that contains a major water supply source. The pipe line will move something like,, 40k barrels a day when complete. When you think about it from a view from afar ,,,, you know humans have gone crazy with car production.
with car production.
12-05-16, 05:25 PM
#290
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I think it will be rerouted , already billions spent on it. When you think of how many barrels will be pumped thru this pipe, under ground,,, it BOGGLES the mind, well my mind at least,.
12-06-16, 03:05 AM
#291
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Economy
Actually you are somewhat correct - a car-free person with a house doesn't need the space taken up by one or two cars and a garage and driveway, and if they live in an apartment, they don't need a parking spot, so that also frees up space. And of course, the more people use public transit, and the more efficiently city space is used, the more economical it is. So cars actually are high maintenance and indirectly cost other people too. So for a brief moment, you actually sounded like you were getting it.
At times when. Drive on the highway. Just think of all us drivers burning petroleum. Not driving but just burning petroleum in an endless flow of liquid and burning it inside the engine. I don not know what the answer is or how we can get away from the addiction . I do know we are like crack addicts no different.💀
12-06-16, 01:59 PM
#292
Senior Member
Would you have the same opinion when people burned wood to survive the winter? Does the same thought cross your mind when you enter a building that is air conditioned or when you hear of people in the Northeast -- even among those LCF -- who rely on oil-fired furnaces and boilers to warm their houses? It wasn't that long ago when all of the cooking in the White House was done with wood-fired stoves and ovens.
12-06-16, 06:37 PM
#293
Prefers Cicero
Igor apparently entertained beliefs that may have found an appreciative audience in the mainstream LCF movement -- e.g.,
Police eventually uncovered some 3,000 bikes stored at Kenk’s Queen St. store, home and rented garages. He told people he was preparing for a fossil fuel apocalypse, when bikes would reign supreme. ~thestar.com
Police eventually uncovered some 3,000 bikes stored at Kenk’s Queen St. store, home and rented garages. He told people he was preparing for a fossil fuel apocalypse, when bikes would reign supreme. ~thestar.com
12-06-16, 09:47 PM
#294
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Heat your house or drive a 3 ton vehicle point A to B?
Would you have the same opinion when people burned wood to survive the winter? Does the same thought cross your mind when you enter a building that is air conditioned or when you hear of people in the Northeast -- even among those LCF -- who rely on oil-fired furnaces and boilers to warm their houses? It wasn't that long ago when all of the cooking in the White House was done with wood-fired stoves and ovens.
12-09-16, 01:53 AM
#295
Sophomoric Member
12-09-16, 06:13 AM
#296
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Actually you are somewhat correct - a car-free person with a house doesn't need the space taken up by one or two cars and a garage and driveway, and if they live in an apartment, they don't need a parking spot, so that also frees up space. And of course, the more people use public transit, and the more efficiently city space is used, the more economical it is. So cars actually are high maintenance and indirectly cost other people too. So for a brief moment, you actually sounded like you were getting it.
12-09-16, 08:33 AM
#297
Senior Member
This morning on NPR, I heard an interview with Ford Futurist Sheryl Connolly. I can't dig up the interview, but I did search out this article:
Ford's Futurist Foreshadows Consumer Trends to Watch in 2017
Of note:
So according to someone who Ford pays to basically predict the future, the future is looking to develop more CF...
There was an interesting aside -- Connelly noted about consumer surveying that if he'd consulted with consumers about what to bring to market, they would have replied with "faster horses." So while LCF might not be at the forefront of any popular social movement at the moment, it could be that the idea is just ahead of its time...
Ford's Futurist Foreshadows Consumer Trends to Watch in 2017
Of note:
"Bigger isn't always better and ownership isn't equated with happiness," the report finds, adding that wealth is an increasingly outdated measure of success. At first glance the finding seems to spell trouble for auto marketers because they make money by selling cars to own. But Ford has sought to adapt by marketing itself as a "mobility company." In March the automaker launched a subsidiary called Ford Smart Mobility, whose investments include ride-sharing and autonomous vehicles.
There was an interesting aside -- Connelly noted about consumer surveying that if he'd consulted with consumers about what to bring to market, they would have replied with "faster horses." So while LCF might not be at the forefront of any popular social movement at the moment, it could be that the idea is just ahead of its time...
12-10-16, 12:06 AM
#298
Senior Member
This morning on NPR, I heard an interview with Ford Futurist Sheryl Connolly. I can't dig up the interview, but I did search out this article:
Ford's Futurist Foreshadows Consumer Trends to Watch in 2017
... it could be that the idea is just ahead of its time...
Ford's Futurist Foreshadows Consumer Trends to Watch in 2017
... it could be that the idea is just ahead of its time...
12-28-16, 02:41 PM
#299
Senior Member
OK, so check out the second grouping down, Government & Economics:
Worldometers - real time world statistics
Note that bicycles are being manufactured at twice the rate of automobiles, and nearly match the birth rate.
That's slightly promising, considering an LCF future...
Worldometers - real time world statistics
Note that bicycles are being manufactured at twice the rate of automobiles, and nearly match the birth rate.
That's slightly promising, considering an LCF future...
12-28-16, 02:45 PM
#300
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OK, so check out the second grouping down, Government & Economics:
Worldometers - real time world statistics
Note that bicycles are being manufactured at twice the rate of automobiles, and nearly match the birth rate.
That's slightly promising, considering an LCF future...
Worldometers - real time world statistics
Note that bicycles are being manufactured at twice the rate of automobiles, and nearly match the birth rate.
That's slightly promising, considering an LCF future...