Shifting Into the Small Ring
12-17-20, 09:41 AM
#76
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The reason to use a 1x setup on a gravel bike is to avoid chain drops, just like an MTB. Sram has a 12 speed 1x gravel setup with 36-46 chain rings and up to a 10-36 cassette.
Campy's 13 speed offers chain rings of 38 to 44 to go with the 9-36, 9-42 and 10-44 cassettes.
https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Mec...s/ekar/gravel2
Campy's 13 speed offers chain rings of 38 to 44 to go with the 9-36, 9-42 and 10-44 cassettes.
https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Mec...s/ekar/gravel2
Last edited by DaveSSS; 12-17-20 at 10:05 AM.
12-17-20, 01:44 PM
#77
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i hate to be the one to do this, but could we please keep it on topic? This thread is about shifting into the small ring, not removing it entirely from the system.
Please stop attempting to hijack this sublime thread.
EDIT: Yes, I know that you could be talking about removing the big ring. Don't get smart.
Please stop attempting to hijack this sublime thread.
EDIT: Yes, I know that you could be talking about removing the big ring. Don't get smart.
Last edited by growlerdinky; 12-18-20 at 02:38 PM. Reason: pay attention to the thread. stay on topic.
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12-17-20, 06:50 PM
#78
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i hate to be the one to do this, but could we please keep it on topic? This thread is about shifting into the small ring, not removing it entirely from the system.
Please stop attempting to hijack this sublime thread.
EDIT: Yes, I know that you could be talking about removing the big ring. Don't get smart.
Please stop attempting to hijack this sublime thread.
EDIT: Yes, I know that you could be talking about removing the big ring. Don't get smart.
I didn't even realise that shifting to the small ring was an issue!
I have had bikes with basically every brand and chainring combo and never had a problem with it.
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12-18-20, 06:23 AM
#79
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I've been using a 16T difference at the crank since since 2008. I have no issues with the compensating shifts. If the shift is timed right, where your cadence has dropped from the climb, you can shift to the little ring with no compensating shifts. It all depends on how quickly the grade is increasing. I rarely need a 3 sprocket shift. If the change in grade is slow, and you shift well ahead of need, shifting 2 sprockets smaller immediately before the shift to the little ring can work, but on a fast increase, you can get bogged down and have a poor chain ring shift.
I'm not impressed at all with electronic sequential or compensating shift modes because it contributes to chain drops and can make unwanted chain ring shifts. I use SRAM force axs 12 speed and never use the compensating or sequential modes. I limit my shifts to 2 sprockets if I hold the shift lever, there's no over compensating. I also don't use a sram crank because I want the extra range of a 16T difference.
I'm not impressed at all with electronic sequential or compensating shift modes because it contributes to chain drops and can make unwanted chain ring shifts. I use SRAM force axs 12 speed and never use the compensating or sequential modes. I limit my shifts to 2 sprockets if I hold the shift lever, there's no over compensating. I also don't use a sram crank because I want the extra range of a 16T difference.
I have sram axs force also, I was not happy when I learned of all the proprietary changes sram made on this groupset.
Last edited by ls01; 12-18-20 at 07:00 AM.
12-18-20, 06:57 AM
#80
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When it comes time for it, first upshift one ring in the rear immediately followed by the downshift up front immediately followed by another upshift in the rear. As rapidly in succession as you can. With practice this becomes really smooth.
And if you are running 50/34 up front consider replacing the 34 with a 36...
.
And if you are running 50/34 up front consider replacing the 34 with a 36...
.
12-18-20, 01:10 PM
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12-18-20, 02:35 PM
#82
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I don't recall saying anything about finding solutions to problems, or non-problems, as it were. Lets try to keep this thing on point, please.
Onward.
Last edited by growlerdinky; 12-18-20 at 02:36 PM. Reason: "onword"
12-18-20, 02:54 PM
#83
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That works too. I actually did that for a while. But for standard Shimano (which I typically run), it would require you to go with aftermarket rings. And while I am a relatively timid descender, I actually encountered a few too many times where 48x11 (or 48x12) was just not a big enough gear. I did not encounter that with a 50x11 or 50x12. 50 vs 48 seems to be the critical point (at least for me) i nthat point.
Besides with 50x36, If you have some ride where you really think you'll need a 34, you can always switch small rings to the 34 and just go. But if you want to swap to a larger big ring for any reason, you are then also forced to adjust the front derailleur which is a real pain in the rear
Besides with 50x36, If you have some ride where you really think you'll need a 34, you can always switch small rings to the 34 and just go. But if you want to swap to a larger big ring for any reason, you are then also forced to adjust the front derailleur which is a real pain in the rear
12-18-20, 03:50 PM
#84
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Can we also discuss the terribly difficult situations of how and when to switch between the eighth and ninth cog, or the seventh and eighth cog?
I had no idea that riding my bike was so complex .... I always thought it would be as easy as riding a bike.
I must have been doing it wrong all these years.
j/k no offense meant toward the OP. Just tired of being serious right now.
I had no idea that riding my bike was so complex .... I always thought it would be as easy as riding a bike.
I must have been doing it wrong all these years.
j/k no offense meant toward the OP. Just tired of being serious right now.
12-19-20, 12:06 AM
#85
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Did anybody also find the video near the top of the thread awful? Loud music and they guy talking fast as if he was overdue for toilet.
With the old way of shifters on DT, I use my right hand and flip the left lever forward with my thumb to switch to the small chainring and continue with cranking the right lever to go up couple cogs on the rear. For sure, it required real men in the old days of pro biking.
With the old way of shifters on DT, I use my right hand and flip the left lever forward with my thumb to switch to the small chainring and continue with cranking the right lever to go up couple cogs on the rear. For sure, it required real men in the old days of pro biking.
12-19-20, 08:28 AM
#86
Senior Member
The axs chain rollers are only .006 inch larger than a standard chain. The idea that the chain won't work with other chain rings and sprockets is greatly exaggerated. I've put the axs chain on a Campy 11 and 12 cranks and the shimano grx cranks with no problem. Also used the axs chain with Campy 12 cassettes.
12-19-20, 08:33 AM
#87
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^ Blasphemy!! You Must use matched components! You Must use a Compleat Gruppo (not group set.) The Manufacturers Have Spoken!!!!
12-21-20, 10:23 AM
#88
Member
The reason to use a 1x setup on a gravel bike is to avoid chain drops, just like an MTB. Sram has a 12 speed 1x gravel setup with 36-46 chain rings and up to a 10-36 cassette.
Campy's 13 speed offers chain rings of 38 to 44 to go with the 9-36, 9-42 and 10-44 cassettes.
https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Mec...s/ekar/gravel2
Campy's 13 speed offers chain rings of 38 to 44 to go with the 9-36, 9-42 and 10-44 cassettes.
https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Mec...s/ekar/gravel2
12-21-20, 12:05 PM
#89
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Do you see any double or triple cranks here? https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/bikes/mountain-bikes/full-suspension-mountain-bikes/c/B511/
Last edited by DaveSSS; 12-21-20 at 12:14 PM.
12-21-20, 01:05 PM
#90
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You're probably thinking of chain drops that occur while shifting. On really rough terrain, the chain can drop just from all the bouncing around. Single chain rings are wide/narrow to aid in retention and some use additional chain retention devices on top of that. MTB and gravel don't interest me, so I'm no expert, but that's why MTBs have 10-52 cassettes. They have a 520% range. I've got 552% with closer sprocket spacing, with a 10-36.
Do you see any double or triple cranks here? https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/b...-bikes/c/B511/
Do you see any double or triple cranks here? https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/b...-bikes/c/B511/
In the 20-or-so years I've ridden a road bike with a chain catcher, I've never once dropped a chain. There's nowhere for it to go.
Edited to add: I do understand other reasons why someone might want 1x on a road bike. No front shifts at all means none of that big change in gears that causes us all to be careful about shifting up front. I just don't understand why dropping a chain would be one of them, least of all the primary one. There's no need on a road bike
Last edited by JoeO; 12-21-20 at 01:12 PM. Reason: Added "least of all the primary one"
12-21-20, 01:14 PM
#91
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Yeah but I thought we were talking about road bikes here?
In the 20-or-so years I've ridden a road bike with a chain catcher, I've never once dropped a chain. There's nowhere for it to go.
Edited to add: I do understand other reasons why someone might want 1x on a road bike. No front shifts at all means none of that big change in gears that causes us all to be careful about shifting up front. I just don't understand why dropping a chain would be one of them. There's no need on a road bike
In the 20-or-so years I've ridden a road bike with a chain catcher, I've never once dropped a chain. There's nowhere for it to go.
Edited to add: I do understand other reasons why someone might want 1x on a road bike. No front shifts at all means none of that big change in gears that causes us all to be careful about shifting up front. I just don't understand why dropping a chain would be one of them. There's no need on a road bike
12-22-20, 09:30 AM
#92
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*sigh*
12-31-20, 12:19 PM
#93
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Are you shifting them simultaneously? Because that's what I usually do and I've never had problems with spinning. I can dump three gears on the back with three quick clicks of the shifter, though I do ease up on the pedal for a fraction of a second to allow for this to happen smoothly. During this split second my legs are spinning at the rate that I think I ought to be in once the gears engage, and once they do engage you are right there. Sounds like a lot, but it's really only a fraction of a second for it to happen. It does take some practice. It doesn't matter if it's 53/39, 52/36, 50/34, 46/36, 50/39/28...I have all of these.
Yeah - usually learn to shift to the small ring before you actually need to. In other words, before the the big ring becomes too difficult or uncomfortable, and where you have enough momentum that you can kind of stop pedaling (or soft pedal it) while you adjust the RD before dropping into the small ring.
Or - with modern drive trains, just learn to always ride the big ring. Cross chaining is less of an issue nowadays, and rear cassettes large enough that you are not mashing the gears when in a 53 x 28 (might be a little different if in a 10/11/12 speed crit cassette on the back).
12-31-20, 12:36 PM
#94
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Yeah - usually learn to shift to the small ring before you actually need to. In other words, before the the big ring becomes too difficult or uncomfortable, and where you have enough momentum that you can kind of stop pedaling (or soft pedal it) while you adjust the RD before dropping into the small ring.
Or - with modern drive trains, just learn to always ride the big ring. Cross chaining is less of an issue nowadays, and rear cassettes large enough that you are not mashing the gears when in a 53 x 28 (might be a little different if in a 10/11/12 speed crit cassette on the back).
Or - with modern drive trains, just learn to always ride the big ring. Cross chaining is less of an issue nowadays, and rear cassettes large enough that you are not mashing the gears when in a 53 x 28 (might be a little different if in a 10/11/12 speed crit cassette on the back).
This video was great for a cyclist learning proper shifting. The speed and smoothness in which he shifts the RD when the FD is shifted is amazing. You can see it at this spot in the video:
AFA cross chaining, I can see that today's drive trains can take it, but I prefer not to do it if I can avoid it (this based on noise if nothing else). I know there are differing opinions on this, but in the beginning of this video, he explains the effect of cross chaining pretty well. The only annoying thing is if you spend an extended amount of time "between front chain rings" (where you're shifting back and forth multiple times).
The more I ride my bike, the more I think I'd like a closer ratio cassette (or even front CR). Oh well... stuff for later.
Last edited by Metallifan33; 12-31-20 at 12:40 PM.
12-31-20, 12:39 PM
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Only being able to shift the rear one gear at a time would drive me seriously nuts. I take it for granted I can cross the whole FW or cassette in one dump. Brifters may be a few more years away for me.
12-31-20, 12:43 PM
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I use chain watcher and a 9-speed middle ring and the 24 to and from the 38 shifts go quite smoothly.) I also run DT friction shifters so I just reach down and push both shifters forward roughly the same amount. That gives me about a gear lower.
Only being able to shift the rear one gear at a time would drive me seriously nuts. I take it for granted I can cross the whole FW or cassette in one dump. Brifters may be a few more years away for me.
Only being able to shift the rear one gear at a time would drive me seriously nuts. I take it for granted I can cross the whole FW or cassette in one dump. Brifters may be a few more years away for me.
I'm Googling DT friction shifters as well...
12-31-20, 12:50 PM
#97
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+1 I'm getting older and Portland has many very real climbs so I run 50-38-24. (I use chain watcher and a 9-speed middle ring and the 24 to and from the 38 shifts go quite smoothly.) I also run DT friction shifters so I just reach down and push both shifters forward roughly the same amount. That gives me about a gear lower.
Only being able to shift the rear one gear at a time would drive me seriously nuts. I take it for granted I can cross the whole FW or cassette in one dump. Brifters may be a few more years away for me.
Only being able to shift the rear one gear at a time would drive me seriously nuts. I take it for granted I can cross the whole FW or cassette in one dump. Brifters may be a few more years away for me.
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12-31-20, 12:57 PM
#98
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Usually called a chain catcher. Some kind of mechanism to prevent the chain from being thrown off the rings, especially to the inside.
For instance, here's a Deda Dog Fang:
Downtube friction shifters. They were common on road bikes prior to the 1990s. For example:
"Downtube" means that they were mounted to the bike's downtube.
"Friction" means that they aren't indexed, which is to say, they're not notched for specific gears. You just rotate the lever however much is necessary to make the derailleur shift the chain into the cog you want. Like how the slide on a trombone isn't notched for playing specific frequencies, you just move it however far is needed for the note you want to play.
For instance, here's a Deda Dog Fang:
I'm Googling DT friction shifters as well...
"Downtube" means that they were mounted to the bike's downtube.
"Friction" means that they aren't indexed, which is to say, they're not notched for specific gears. You just rotate the lever however much is necessary to make the derailleur shift the chain into the cog you want. Like how the slide on a trombone isn't notched for playing specific frequencies, you just move it however far is needed for the note you want to play.
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12-31-20, 01:05 PM
#99
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How do you know that 79pmooney's middle ring is ramped?
TA makes some 38T chainrings with pins and ramps. I bought their 38T 110BCD ring a little while ago from Harris Cyclery for a new middle on my gravel bike's 48-38-24:
TA makes some 38T chainrings with pins and ramps. I bought their 38T 110BCD ring a little while ago from Harris Cyclery for a new middle on my gravel bike's 48-38-24:
12-31-20, 02:12 PM
#100
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I have a 24T I've been wanting to put on our tandem, but thought the 39 just a bit too much of a shift. I'll have to see how the 10speed brifter and FD handles it - works fine with 53-39-26, but the two outer rings are 10 speed rings. 9-speed triple rings are not quite the same as 10-speed.
I need to gear lower now that my wife changed to cranks of the correct length for her - 150mm. We'll have to spin faster when climbing to generate the same power. We should be able to spin at 84 instead of 78, same power as with her old 170 cranks.
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