Anyone else out there not using padded shorts?
09-30-21, 09:29 PM
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09-30-21, 09:33 PM
#52
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09-30-21, 09:36 PM
#53
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May I ask why? When I ride, I'm generally training too, albeit for no specific event other than a long, healthy life. I consider the wattage lost to my loose clothing to be adding to my workout load. Ditto for my steel or titanium frame and friction shifters. Or is it that you want your training conditions to replicate your race conditions as much as possible?
09-30-21, 09:42 PM
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May I ask why? When I ride, I'm generally training too, albeit for no specific event other than a long, healthy life. I consider the wattage lost to my loose clothing to be adding to my workout load. Ditto for my steel or titanium frame and friction shifters. Or is it that you want your training conditions to replicate your race conditions as much as possible?
09-30-21, 09:48 PM
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Been riding 6-7,000 miles a year for the past 6 years or so without any pads in my pants, or on the saddle. Works for me.
09-30-21, 09:56 PM
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When I see other folk out in full spandex for a lunch ride around the MUP, I question whether the benefit is worth the hassle. Obviously, these are not racing conditions other than Strava obsession perhaps. On the other hand, I like to feel speedy even when I've nothing to prove.
09-30-21, 10:04 PM
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May I ask why? When I ride, I'm generally training too, albeit for no specific event other than a long, healthy life. I consider the wattage lost to my loose clothing to be adding to my workout load. Ditto for my steel or titanium frame and friction shifters. Or is it that you want your training conditions to replicate your race conditions as much as possible?
09-30-21, 10:24 PM
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Commuting and utility riding, I'm wearing street clothes. But that's usually less than 5 miles.
Short sporty rides, say under 20 miles, I'm often wearing unpadded swimming jammers and non-cotton underwear.
Longer sport rides and brevets, padded shorts. Otherwise chafing issues arise.
Short sporty rides, say under 20 miles, I'm often wearing unpadded swimming jammers and non-cotton underwear.
Longer sport rides and brevets, padded shorts. Otherwise chafing issues arise.
09-30-21, 11:11 PM
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I have to wear something when I'm riding and that's almost always bib shorts and a cycling jersey. It's more comfortable, especially in the heat and humidity in the South.
The only time I don't is when I'm leading a Navy fitness session on the indoor bikes and then I wear padded Lycra shorts under the Navy PT uniform because the bikes have awful saddles.
The only time I don't is when I'm leading a Navy fitness session on the indoor bikes and then I wear padded Lycra shorts under the Navy PT uniform because the bikes have awful saddles.
10-01-21, 06:42 AM
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Why?
That's a joke question--comfort is so subjective that I find questioning why someone finds something more or less comfortable than I do to be very silly. I find wearing cotton shirts on a long ride comfortable, that seems to drive some posters nuts. I'm not uncomfortable on a saddle without padding, and you are. Such is life.
I realized years ago when I saw the head rests that are commonly used for sleeping in other cultures that there's no "objective" way to define comfort. Using those as we use pillows looks like absolute torture to me. ,
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10-01-21, 07:49 AM
#61
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Thanks for the complete non-answer. Of course it's what he prefers. What I was asking is why he prefers it.
I did not question caloso's preferences. I merely asked him to explain the rationale behind his preferences so that I might:
1) Better understand his perspective and;
2) Better understand the perspective of the class of riders that he described to me previously.
I never indicated that I felt any compulsion to do the same. Truly, I do not understand your apparent hostility over the asking of a simple question. Do people not have discussions about things where you're from?
I did not question caloso's preferences. I merely asked him to explain the rationale behind his preferences so that I might:
1) Better understand his perspective and;
2) Better understand the perspective of the class of riders that he described to me previously.
I never indicated that I felt any compulsion to do the same. Truly, I do not understand your apparent hostility over the asking of a simple question. Do people not have discussions about things where you're from?
10-01-21, 08:58 AM
#62
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Thanks. I was trying to get at something a bit more fundamental though. I'll give it another go for good measure.
When I see lunch hour racers out and about, it seems to me that their setups reflect deliberate choices that prioritize speed over comfort: stiff frames, racing geometry, aero posture, 2 g bike seats, tight clothing etc. They then, it seems to me, have little choice but to use padded clothing to restore some measure of comfort.
In contrast, when I'm out training, I ride a steel touring bike with a relaxed, upright geometry. I add to that a well padded touring seat, 35 mm tires, and the aforementioned cargo shorts and Hawaiian shirt. I generate my own wind in those loose clothes such that a balls-to-the-wall, 45 minute ride in 30C heat will leave me accumulating sweat only under my helmet. I am, admittedly, a bit salty elsewhere. I can train effectively this way, packing no extra clothing, and generating no extra laundry. Over the course of a riding season, I steadily get stronger and fitter, just like a racer. Of course, what I don't develop are the flexibility and handling skills suited to an aggressive road bike setup.
My way of training seems ideal to me. This leads me to wonder why the lunch hour racer folks choose differently. As I see it, the likely explanations, in order of likeliness, are:
1) Racers want their lunch hour training to simulate their racing conditions as much as possible (handling, flexibility requirements, etc).
2) Impulse(s) towards aesthetics & style.
3) Some racers might only have racing bikes.
Whatever the motivations of lunch hour racers are, I'm not judging them unfavorably. I simply seek to understand them.
When I see lunch hour racers out and about, it seems to me that their setups reflect deliberate choices that prioritize speed over comfort: stiff frames, racing geometry, aero posture, 2 g bike seats, tight clothing etc. They then, it seems to me, have little choice but to use padded clothing to restore some measure of comfort.
In contrast, when I'm out training, I ride a steel touring bike with a relaxed, upright geometry. I add to that a well padded touring seat, 35 mm tires, and the aforementioned cargo shorts and Hawaiian shirt. I generate my own wind in those loose clothes such that a balls-to-the-wall, 45 minute ride in 30C heat will leave me accumulating sweat only under my helmet. I am, admittedly, a bit salty elsewhere. I can train effectively this way, packing no extra clothing, and generating no extra laundry. Over the course of a riding season, I steadily get stronger and fitter, just like a racer. Of course, what I don't develop are the flexibility and handling skills suited to an aggressive road bike setup.
My way of training seems ideal to me. This leads me to wonder why the lunch hour racer folks choose differently. As I see it, the likely explanations, in order of likeliness, are:
1) Racers want their lunch hour training to simulate their racing conditions as much as possible (handling, flexibility requirements, etc).
2) Impulse(s) towards aesthetics & style.
3) Some racers might only have racing bikes.
Whatever the motivations of lunch hour racers are, I'm not judging them unfavorably. I simply seek to understand them.
Last edited by Harold74; 10-01-21 at 09:01 AM.
10-01-21, 10:02 AM
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Why?
That's a joke question--comfort is so subjective that I find questioning why someone finds something more or less comfortable than I do to be very silly. I find wearing cotton shirts on a long ride comfortable, that seems to drive some posters nuts. I'm not uncomfortable on a saddle without padding, and you are. Such is life.
I realized years ago when I saw the head rests that are commonly used for sleeping in other cultures that there's no "objective" way to define comfort. Using those as we use pillows looks like absolute torture to me. ,
That's a joke question--comfort is so subjective that I find questioning why someone finds something more or less comfortable than I do to be very silly. I find wearing cotton shirts on a long ride comfortable, that seems to drive some posters nuts. I'm not uncomfortable on a saddle without padding, and you are. Such is life.
I realized years ago when I saw the head rests that are commonly used for sleeping in other cultures that there's no "objective" way to define comfort. Using those as we use pillows looks like absolute torture to me. ,
What I said was that I am more comfortable in a jersey and bibs when I am riding hard like doing intervals, group rides, racing, etc, It goes beyond the pad. If I’m going for a long or hard ride I don’t like seams up in my taint, I don’t like wearing out dress pants, I don’t like baggy shorts that ride up or snag on the saddle nose if I stand, I don’t like cotton shirts that hold moisture and chafe. On long hard rides I like bibs that fit and stay in place, I like jerseys that are cut to fit while riding and have full zippers, wicking fabric, reflective tabs, and pockets to hold my phone, food, and other stuff.
People should wear what they like and is comfortable to them, in the context that they are riding.
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10-01-21, 10:11 AM
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Thanks. I was trying to get at something a bit more fundamental though. I'll give it another go for good measure.
When I see lunch hour racers out and about, it seems to me that their setups reflect deliberate choices that prioritize speed over comfort: stiff frames, racing geometry, aero posture, 2 g bike seats, tight clothing etc. They then, it seems to me, have little choice but to use padded clothing to restore some measure of comfort.
In contrast, when I'm out training, I ride a steel touring bike with a relaxed, upright geometry. I add to that a well padded touring seat, 35 mm tires, and the aforementioned cargo shorts and Hawaiian shirt. I generate my own wind in those loose clothes such that a balls-to-the-wall, 45 minute ride in 30C heat will leave me accumulating sweat only under my helmet. I am, admittedly, a bit salty elsewhere. I can train effectively this way, packing no extra clothing, and generating no extra laundry. Over the course of a riding season, I steadily get stronger and fitter, just like a racer. Of course, what I don't develop are the flexibility and handling skills suited to an aggressive road bike setup.
My way of training seems ideal to me. This leads me to wonder why the lunch hour racer folks choose differently. As I see it, the likely explanations, in order of likeliness, are:
1) Racers want their lunch hour training to simulate their racing conditions as much as possible (handling, flexibility requirements, etc).
2) Impulse(s) towards aesthetics & style.
3) Some racers might only have racing bikes.
Whatever the motivations of lunch hour racers are, I'm not judging them unfavorably. I simply seek to understand them.
When I see lunch hour racers out and about, it seems to me that their setups reflect deliberate choices that prioritize speed over comfort: stiff frames, racing geometry, aero posture, 2 g bike seats, tight clothing etc. They then, it seems to me, have little choice but to use padded clothing to restore some measure of comfort.
In contrast, when I'm out training, I ride a steel touring bike with a relaxed, upright geometry. I add to that a well padded touring seat, 35 mm tires, and the aforementioned cargo shorts and Hawaiian shirt. I generate my own wind in those loose clothes such that a balls-to-the-wall, 45 minute ride in 30C heat will leave me accumulating sweat only under my helmet. I am, admittedly, a bit salty elsewhere. I can train effectively this way, packing no extra clothing, and generating no extra laundry. Over the course of a riding season, I steadily get stronger and fitter, just like a racer. Of course, what I don't develop are the flexibility and handling skills suited to an aggressive road bike setup.
My way of training seems ideal to me. This leads me to wonder why the lunch hour racer folks choose differently. As I see it, the likely explanations, in order of likeliness, are:
1) Racers want their lunch hour training to simulate their racing conditions as much as possible (handling, flexibility requirements, etc).
2) Impulse(s) towards aesthetics & style.
3) Some racers might only have racing bikes.
Whatever the motivations of lunch hour racers are, I'm not judging them unfavorably. I simply seek to understand them.
2) Personally, I love a good looking kit.
3) Maybe. I don’t know. Personally, everyone I know who races has multiple bikes and probably has a beater/commuter/utility bike. Of course, it is possible to ride a race bike in regular clothes. I do it all the time. If I’m using one leg of my commute as an interval set, the other leg, I’m just commuting in office clothes.
10-01-21, 10:50 AM
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I didn’t say I was uncomfortable on a saddle without padding. Farther up the thread I said I typically commute in office clothes. Yesterday when I rode home I didn’t even bother taking off my tie. I put on my helmet and pant cuff bands, and rode home. It would not have been worth it to spend 10 minutes changing for a 20 minute ride where I barely exceed 15 mph.
What I said was that I am more comfortable in a jersey and bibs when I am riding hard like doing intervals, group rides, racing, etc, It goes beyond the pad. If I’m going for a long or hard ride I don’t like seams up in my taint, I don’t like wearing out dress pants, I don’t like baggy shorts that ride up or snag on the saddle nose if I stand, I don’t like cotton shirts that hold moisture and chafe. On long hard rides I like bibs that fit and stay in place, I like jerseys that are cut to fit while riding and have full zippers, wicking fabric, reflective tabs, and pockets to hold my phone, food, and other stuff.
People should wear what they like and is comfortable to them, in the context that they are riding.
What I said was that I am more comfortable in a jersey and bibs when I am riding hard like doing intervals, group rides, racing, etc, It goes beyond the pad. If I’m going for a long or hard ride I don’t like seams up in my taint, I don’t like wearing out dress pants, I don’t like baggy shorts that ride up or snag on the saddle nose if I stand, I don’t like cotton shirts that hold moisture and chafe. On long hard rides I like bibs that fit and stay in place, I like jerseys that are cut to fit while riding and have full zippers, wicking fabric, reflective tabs, and pockets to hold my phone, food, and other stuff.
People should wear what they like and is comfortable to them, in the context that they are riding.
Cotton shirts never chafe me, I find it's actually better on MY skin than "performance" polyesters, and I find jerseys the least comfortable of all. What I find hilarious on BF is how many people try to convince other people they're wrong about what they find comfortable under what circumstances.
When I was a teenager, the line always was cotton breathes and polyester doesn't. I realize that polyesters are a lot different now than they were then, but cotton isn't. Not sure when it stopped breathing.
10-01-21, 10:56 AM
#66
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Thanks. I was trying to get at something a bit more fundamental though. I'll give it another go for good measure.
When I see lunch hour racers out and about, it seems to me that their setups reflect deliberate choices that prioritize speed over comfort: stiff frames, racing geometry, aero posture, 2 g bike seats, tight clothing etc. They then, it seems to me, have little choice but to use padded clothing to restore some measure of comfort.
In contrast, when I'm out training, I ride a steel touring bike with a relaxed, upright geometry. I add to that a well padded touring seat, 35 mm tires, and the aforementioned cargo shorts and Hawaiian shirt. I generate my own wind in those loose clothes such that a balls-to-the-wall, 45 minute ride in 30C heat will leave me accumulating sweat only under my helmet. I am, admittedly, a bit salty elsewhere. I can train effectively this way, packing no extra clothing, and generating no extra laundry. Over the course of a riding season, I steadily get stronger and fitter, just like a racer. Of course, what I don't develop are the flexibility and handling skills suited to an aggressive road bike setup.
My way of training seems ideal to me. This leads me to wonder why the lunch hour racer folks choose differently. As I see it, the likely explanations, in order of likeliness, are:
1) Racers want their lunch hour training to simulate their racing conditions as much as possible (handling, flexibility requirements, etc).
2) Impulse(s) towards aesthetics & style.
3) Some racers might only have racing bikes.
Whatever the motivations of lunch hour racers are, I'm not judging them unfavorably. I simply seek to understand them.
When I see lunch hour racers out and about, it seems to me that their setups reflect deliberate choices that prioritize speed over comfort: stiff frames, racing geometry, aero posture, 2 g bike seats, tight clothing etc. They then, it seems to me, have little choice but to use padded clothing to restore some measure of comfort.
In contrast, when I'm out training, I ride a steel touring bike with a relaxed, upright geometry. I add to that a well padded touring seat, 35 mm tires, and the aforementioned cargo shorts and Hawaiian shirt. I generate my own wind in those loose clothes such that a balls-to-the-wall, 45 minute ride in 30C heat will leave me accumulating sweat only under my helmet. I am, admittedly, a bit salty elsewhere. I can train effectively this way, packing no extra clothing, and generating no extra laundry. Over the course of a riding season, I steadily get stronger and fitter, just like a racer. Of course, what I don't develop are the flexibility and handling skills suited to an aggressive road bike setup.
My way of training seems ideal to me. This leads me to wonder why the lunch hour racer folks choose differently. As I see it, the likely explanations, in order of likeliness, are:
1) Racers want their lunch hour training to simulate their racing conditions as much as possible (handling, flexibility requirements, etc).
2) Impulse(s) towards aesthetics & style.
3) Some racers might only have racing bikes.
Whatever the motivations of lunch hour racers are, I'm not judging them unfavorably. I simply seek to understand them.
I think there's a possible #4: They sweat a lot when they ride and need to change clothes before and after the ride, so they put on what they're used to riding in generally.
Yours and my clothing choices are similar except I wear a tight-fitting tee shirt instead of Hawaiian shirt, but I'd sweat them up way too much to work in if I were to engage in a relatively fast 45 minute ride over lunch.
10-01-21, 11:16 AM
#67
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b) For the most part, I think that we're talking about the difference between:
a) Lycra shorts and short sleeved shirts and;
b) non-Lycra shorts and short sleeved shirts.
It's not as though I'm flying around on my bike in slacks and a cardigan. I am fortunate in that my office attire is shorts and short sleeved shirt during the summer months.
10-01-21, 11:23 AM
#68
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a) I don't feel that the comparison to other sports is particularly apt. Runners and crossfitters don't generate nearly the sweat evaporating wind that cyclists do and their mobility requirement's are greater. And, of course, nobody really swims in street clothes these days.
b) For the most part, I think that we're talking about the difference between:
a) Lycra shorts and short sleeved shirts and;
b) non-Lycra shorts and short sleeved shirts.
It's not as though I'm flying around on my bike in slacks and a cardigan. I am fortunate in that my office attire is shorts and short sleeved shirt during the summer months.
b) For the most part, I think that we're talking about the difference between:
a) Lycra shorts and short sleeved shirts and;
b) non-Lycra shorts and short sleeved shirts.
It's not as though I'm flying around on my bike in slacks and a cardigan. I am fortunate in that my office attire is shorts and short sleeved shirt during the summer months.
I think you have to take into account that people vary a lot in how much they sweat.
10-01-21, 11:25 AM
#69
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1) I seem to barely sweat at all below the waist, almost regardless of the circumstances.
2) I can't say enough good things about the ventilation / evaporation potential of a Hawaiian shirt. No doubt, that's why there's such a thing as a Hawaiian shirt. As long as I stay above 20 km/hr, I seem to stay very dry.
10-01-21, 11:37 AM
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Aside from swimming...all other workouts can be done in a regular pair of cargo pants and a t-shirt...I've lifted weights, I've done kettlebell workouts and all manner of other exercises in a pair of cargo pants and a t-shirt....Military guys workout in full combat clothing plus some of their workouts involve carrying 60 pounds of gear with them.
10-01-21, 11:49 AM
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Is it really that difficult to understand that many riders, particularly those who commit to significant time or intensity, prefer clothing that is optimized for the activity?
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10-01-21, 12:13 PM
#72
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It's not but, clearly, not all of us share that perspective so some elaboration has been helpful. Is it really that painful to have a simple conversation about this with folks who see things differently and are curious about the perspective of others? I thought that we were simply having a polite discussion here about preferences but I get the impression that the dialog is vexing you. I certainly don't care enough about this that I'd want to cause you any angst over it.
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10-01-21, 12:24 PM
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When I started, I found pads necessary to keep my tail from bursting into flame, but as I got used to it I needed them less and less. Still, they're more comfortable and I'll wear them if it's convenient, and not if it isn't. No rules. . . just what works and feels best and isn't too dorky (I won't wear them to the grocery store, for instance.) Not a big deal.
I wear bike clothes to commute because they're compact (storage at work). I sponge bathe and change at work, and basically I hate living in old sweat if I don't have to. I imagine the people around me share that preference.
I wear bike clothes to commute because they're compact (storage at work). I sponge bathe and change at work, and basically I hate living in old sweat if I don't have to. I imagine the people around me share that preference.
Last edited by mdarnton; 10-01-21 at 12:28 PM.
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10-01-21, 12:36 PM
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Cotton shirts never chafe me, I find it's actually better on MY skin than "performance" polyesters, and I find jerseys the least comfortable of all. What I find hilarious on BF is how many people try to convince other people they're wrong about what they find comfortable under what circumstances.
When I was a teenager, the line always was cotton breathes and polyester doesn't. I realize that polyesters are a lot different now than they were then, but cotton isn't. Not sure when it stopped breathing.
When I was a teenager, the line always was cotton breathes and polyester doesn't. I realize that polyesters are a lot different now than they were then, but cotton isn't. Not sure when it stopped breathing.
10-01-21, 01:01 PM
#75
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It's notable how many touring bikers ride with normal shirts (or Hawaiian as mentioned) rather than poly sport-specific. I've tried both on my commute and for me the dividing line is that poly HAS to breathe because it lies close on the skin and is nearly a closed plastic bag, so I prefer riding in a loose cotton tent that doesn't have to breathe because it ventilates. Plus, cotton doesn't stink. And when it gets really hot, you can open the front of a button shirt and invite the wind right in. Poly can't compete with that! I don't get the poly thing except for aero considerations, for racing.
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