ehcoplex 

The Valgan I’m rehabbing came with Maillard 700 hubs (on mismatched and not-great condition rims, so the wheels have been dismantled and will be rebuilt with a pair of polished Sun M13-ii rims I have sitting around)… or at least mostly came with Maillard 700 hubs. Everything is there for the front hub, cones and races were smooth, polished it up, put in new bearings and grease- all good. The rear however is missing the axle, cones and one of the dust caps. It’d be great to use these original hubs, but is attempting to find the right axle, cones and dust cap an exercise in futility? I see that wheelsmfg.com have a big selection of cones available, but unfortunately I don’t have the original cones for a sizing reference. It sort of seems that any number of cones might work, though the dust cap might be the main sticking point.. Budget is tight for this build, but am I better off just finding another hubset...?

BFisher

Apparently there were a few different versions of these hubs, with varying dimensions:
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...es-sizing.html

Outside of getting very lucky on a set of replacement cones and axle, maybe just try and source another complete 700?

juvela

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great to read you are moving forward with work on that find!

the model 700 hubs on the machine are the first of two generations; launch was 1973

although called Maillard the actual manufacturer was Etablissements Perrin, makers of Exceltoo, New Star and Pelissier brand hubs



the Maillard plant in Incheville closed permanently about 1991 so no spare parts shall be issuing from there

one difference between the "G1" and "G2" versions is the dustcover; it may be that the internals are the same for both; me hands-on experience with them is limited to the "G1"

finding spares for this example likely difficult as well...





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ehcoplex 

I'll probably end up getting some 'new' old hubs to build up the wheels and just keep my eye out (and maybe someday get lucky...) for the missing bits so I can use the 700s for something down the line...

juvela

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one thing to be aware of when servicing the 700 model hub -

unlike most hubs with a one-piece alloy shell the seats for the bearing cups are rectangular in profile
the inside diameter of the hole for the axle is smaller than the inside diameter of the bearing cup
this renders replacement of a damaged or worn out cup a challenge

most hubs constructed with a one-piece alloy shell have a bell/trumpet shaped seat for the bearing cup
this allows one to remove the cup with an offset drift punch or small gear puller tool because it is possible to get access to the backside of the cup


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Road Fan

I've recently finished a lot of work on some Exceltoo hubs. Two bikes, four hubs, four bent axles. The cones and locknuts were in pretty good shape, as were the integral cups. I measured all the dimensions of the OEM axles, especially length, OD, and thread pitch. I found I could buy complete axle replacement kits from ... I think it was Wheelsmith, who also had some decent replacement QR skewers. I verified that the thread pitches and diameters matched the old stuff, test-fit a lot of times to make sure the axles were properly centered for the desired OLDs and dishing. I didn't trim the axle lengths until final integration, just to make sure all the clearances worked with everything attached. Finally I trimmed the axles, milled chamfers on the axle ends (just an 8" mill bastard file), and finished the spoke work.

I would not say you need to pitch the old hubs and try to find good used ones, and I'd say you should avoid doing that if you can. I looked around for decenrt replacement hubs and found other problems and difficulties and confusions. I think the quality of these old hubs is surprising. The bike I was working on was bought in 1974, and other than the axles I really didn't require new parts. To be fair there was a slight dent on one of the flanges, but the spokes trued up. I thought it was better to leave it as-is instead of cold-settmg it back to a true condition. The bike ended up riding pretty well

Dylansbob 

The axles seem to have changed somewhere over the line as well. I have a set on my early 80s CNC that cracked a locknut. It turned out not to be interchangable with the early set on the '74 Raleigh Super Tourer. Still need to figure out what that thread is...

juvela

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thanks for this message

your Raleigh Super Tourer would have come with the "G1" edition of the 700

perhaps we can get some input from others who have experience of the "G2" type...

examples which have passed through my workshop were all the "G1" type


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ehcoplex 

Unfortunately, I don't have the axle/cones for the rear hub, so don't have anything to go on to find a replacement... I think I probably could figure out something that would work, but the missing dust cap will likely be the stumbling block. Of course, if I go with some different hubs I will hold onto these with the hope that someday I might stumble on the bits needed to make them complete.

ehcoplex 

Do the plastic vs. metal dust caps indicate G1 vs. G2?

Road Fan

The two key parameters of hub axle threads are pitch and outer diameter (OD). Pitch can be measured using a set of thread gauges. I found a pretty comprehensive set on Amazon for about $15, a similar Mitutoyo was $55. It takes some practice to use them, but when you find the one which fits your axle it is pretty obvious. If your old axles are not damaged, you can use them to determine if the parts of an alternative axle will match the original axle, and also which axles are actually interchangeable.

To match OD you need a metric caliper, which can be vernier, dial, or digital. What matters is that you have the skill to read it correctly and to make decisions (go, no-go) based on the reading versus the requirement.

I'm not sure you need to worry about the version of the hub, or that it will help. If NOS spare parts were available and marked, or if knowledge of the deepest details of the variants within the numerous brands, designs, factories, suppliers and configurations of Maillard hubs was common and dependable and available through a stable used parts supply chain (the old Loose Screws was a good example), It would be useful to know you have a G1. But without that you can ask your Ebay seller who just wants a sale, and may say yes just because he just wants a sale, but really has no idea if you can use what he will sell you.

The key to this uncertainty for your personal work is to have adequate knowledge, skills, and tools.

juvela

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oui


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ehcoplex 

Yes, that's all well and good (and I do have calipers and thread gauges and know how to use them), but I don't have the original axle or cones so I can't measure something I don't have. - all I have is the hub shell (& one plastic dust cap, so apparently the hub is G1).

ehcoplex 

Bon, merci!

(and I see that you actually already answered that question above...!)

juvela

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forgot to mention above -

do not know a specific launch year for the "G2"

it "seems" like the "G1" had been out for about three or four years when the "G2" launched

perhaps another reader will know a specific date...


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ehcoplex 

While we're on the subject...... here's another question. The front hub had what I think are 7/32" bearings in it, rather than the usual 3/16". Is that what it is supposed to have, or did they get changed out for the wrong size at some point in the past?

[edit] Ah, never mind- found an older thread that answers the question- 7/32" is the right size.

Dylansbob 

Here's what I've got. I hadn't realized my later model set are low flange, if it makes a difference.


Maillard 700 rear hub, 1974 Raleigh Super Tourer

G1? black plastic dustcap

alloy dust cap

Spiedel/Maillard 700 rear hub, early 80s CNC