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Training Status??? (IV)

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Training Status??? (IV)

Old 12-16-21, 10:26 AM
  #16701  
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Here is some personal anecdotal (N=1) trainer history that I find interesting. When I started racing in 2007, I trained with a coach who had an indoor cycling gym. The trainers were Minoura Rollers with resistance units attached and a front fork mount. The resistance units had four settings from easy to very hard. There was zero inertia.

The coach used a two to one rule where every hour on the rollers was equivalent to 2 hours on the road. Effectively, there was no z1 and of course no coasting. Track riding had a large neuromuscular component so it was considered more fatiguing than the road but less than the rollers.

Two other coaches I used derated the trainer power by 7-10% since it was considered harder than the road for a given workout. I found this to be true for me on most older (not smart) trainers.

Another coach I use suggested that a road workout done on the trainer be shortened by 33% and at the track 25%.

Fast forward to today and it strikes me that with programs like Zwift and smart trainers that try to simulate road feel that the discount is probably diminished and it may have switched in favor of indoor workouts being mentally easier than outdoor road workouts. And of course, there is a significant strength and adaptation aspect to selecting a training modality. If one rides the trainer/rollers a lot or exclusively, any difference in fatigue either mental or physical diminishes.

Just some musing…YMMV.

Yesterday, I tooled around climbing Mount Soledad. Meh.
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Old 12-16-21, 12:21 PM
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1 min on/off VO2 max intervals this morning on the trainer (TR Baird -2). First VO2max set since I was off the bike for a few weeks for travel. Made it through, but ooof, that was hard.
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Old 12-21-21, 08:32 AM
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A modest 4.5 hrs on Sunday, last ride of the block. Finished the last hour pretty strongly in a group ride on the "big foot hills" route with lots of SST and some z4/5 stuff. I think I'm getting stronger, and I expect to see an increase in my 20 min power when I test in a week.

Yesterday, abs work AM, legs PM, but took it easy since I got my (Moderna) booster after work. I feel decent now and planned on 1-1.5 hrs easy on the trainer so I think I'll manage that. Another 4-5 hours total (including TT bike) until Thursday evening when I fly to Texas for the holidays w/ the in-laws which will include three days off the bike.
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Old 12-22-21, 10:43 AM
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We were in Newport Coast for a few days and did some cycling.

Saturday, San Clement to Oceanside and back via Camp Pendleton - 2 hour endurance
Sunday, the Back Bay in Newport Beach plus river bike paths - 2 hour endurance
Tuesday, Carson Velodrome, warmup, jumps and 3x 750m ANO2 efforts. The track workouts do not seem like much when written on paper but at the time, they seem really hard and generate a lot of fatigue.
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Old 12-24-21, 11:05 AM
  #16705  
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Grad school is DONE. After a few months of irregular 5-7hrs/night, I am sleeping again. RPE is way, way lower for efforts. It's like magic!
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Old 12-24-21, 07:45 PM
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Went to the gym and did a Stages stationary bike sprinters warmup and then some upper body work.
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Old 12-25-21, 05:29 PM
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My coach has switched from the "kinder, gentler" style she used while I was doing chemo back to her "beat the geezer like a rented mule" mode. This build has included two days with uphill anaerobic running intervals and tomorrow is another set but on the bike. Plus stretching out my running workouts, up to three hours now. Plus strength work. Sheesh. But my mojo's coming back.

I did have a glitch, though. My first race back ended in a DNF due to my lower back locking up on me. I could've death-marched to the end but it would've been way past the point of diminishing returns.

There's a 27-mile trail race in two weeks that I'll probably do. It'll be my first race in 70+.
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Old 12-26-21, 09:46 AM
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revchuck Welcome back. I am riding a lot and feel great but slow vis a vis race fitness. Without a coach and targeted events, I languish in the fit but not fast state which is still better than the not fit and fat state. Enjoy getting beat like a rented mule.
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Old 12-26-21, 10:47 AM
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+1 glad you're back and getting thrashed!
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Old 12-27-21, 03:15 PM
  #16710  
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Training has taken a bit of a backseat the past couple of weeks due to my wife giving birth to our son. Now that everyone is home and we've settled into a routine, I'm back on the bike- well the turbo at least. Easy spin around watopia today, and some good sessions coming up from my coach later in the week.
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Old 12-27-21, 03:19 PM
  #16711  
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Originally Posted by rivers View Post
Training has taken a bit of a backseat the past couple of weeks due to my wife giving birth to our son. Now that everyone is home and we've settled into a routine, I'm back on the bike- well the turbo at least. Easy spin around watopia today, and some good sessions coming up from my coach later in the week.
Congrats on the son. Your first kid?
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Old 12-27-21, 03:32 PM
  #16712  
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Originally Posted by big john View Post
Congrats on the son. Your first kid?
yep. 12 days in and he's still alive!
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Old 12-28-21, 03:25 PM
  #16713  
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The last few months of training have been a little weird. Still was doing structure, but at a lower level for transition/offseason. Combine that with and increased workload from a promotion at work, two trips to Dallas for conferences in a month (Sept/Oct) and getting sick when I got back from the second (not COVID) and my fitness took the expected beating and weight crept back up to it's off season level. CTL dropped into the low 70's after a peak of 126. I took the time to do the SoCalBikePT 12-week glute activation program to work on some imbalances I have and now have moved into some actual gym work and am starting to feel like that is getting some good traction. Started dialing the training back in starting mid-Dec with a focus on Master's Nat's in August. My coach is more of a pull it up rather than push it up kind of guy, so we don't do straight SS work and do a fair bit of VO2 work, and I did a block the other day that surprised me by giving me my second best 10' power for the year, so I've got that going for me. That's about all I have at the moment, but I have it.
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Old 12-30-21, 08:49 AM
  #16714  
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Treated myself to a rocker plate for Christmas after realizing that I have averaged 475 hours on the trainer the last two years (480/470.) I've done a few rides on it now and it's pretty sweet, but really does highlight the lack of coordination between my upper and lower bodies from all of the time of the static trainer. I also picked up some old school rollers for recovery days to work on that as well. This is a light week on the plan, so I did some short VO2 intervals today with light spinning between and then hit the gym for an hour of weights.
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Old 12-30-21, 09:35 AM
  #16715  
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TMonk TheKillerPenguin and others, which indoor trainer are you using? I know it has been mentioned before but I am too lazy to look back in time and your views may have changed. Thanks in advance.
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Old 12-30-21, 11:36 AM
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I'm using Saris' top tier offering, the H3 or "Hammer" 3. It's great and I love it. I have no experience using other Smart trainers but compared to an old wheel-on dumb trainer, the feel of it is amazing. Coupled with the modern apps (specifically Zwift for me), and I won't shy away from doing endurance rides on it if the weather isn't nice, if I start super early, or sometimes, because I just want to.
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Old 12-30-21, 11:41 AM
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On a similar note, I tried my first FTP test indoors on Tuesday, since Fiesta Island was cold and muddy from the rains. Longer term, I like the idea of moving towards doing them indoors, since it's more practical and I might not always live next to a 20 min climb or open stretch of road with no interruption.

It went pretty crappy TBH. I tried it on Epic KOM since it's about 20 min at that level of effort for me. It's probably a bit too short of a segment anyway since when I get more fit, I'd run out of road. I was at the same number from my last test at 19' in, but I was a bit psyched out since I got a cryptic/seemingly urgent text from my mom a couple min prior (false alarm), and I was about to hit the ~30s downhill section and I like to ride at max trainer difficulty so it would have been challenging to keep the power up. But I knew that going in so I guess it was just poorly planned.

Not sure what I'll try next time; I'd like to develop some sort of routine. First 20' up the Alpe? Motor on Fuego Flats for a bit? It will be a work in progress.

If anyone else has any pro tips for doing FTP tests in Z, LMK.
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Old 12-30-21, 12:18 PM
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Hermes I have a Tacx Neo 2T (also have an OG Neo I use for my TT bike) and like them a lot. I like the Neo because it just works and responds quickly. The new Kickr doesn't require constant spin down calibration anymore, so it just works now too apparently.

TMonk I used the Zwift FTP test workout for mine. It flips to resistance mode for the test, so you get to control the power but aren't at the mercy of the road. I always pick a route like Alpe du Zwift so it feels like I'm climbing when I do it and I get the best of both worlds.
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Old 12-30-21, 12:22 PM
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I forget, is Ven-Top more consistently graded than AdZ? It seems like AdZ flattens out more on the turns while Ven-Top is just a straight on drag that varies from 6-12% but doesn't really get flat. Could be mis-remembering it though as it's been a while since I've done either of them. The other nice thing about Ven-Top is a lot fewer people do it so there aren't rabbits to chase if you want to be consistent (especially true if you do it as a meet-up by yourself on a day when it's not the featured world).
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Old 12-30-21, 07:35 PM
  #16720  
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Originally Posted by TMonk View Post

If anyone else has any pro tips for doing FTP tests in Z, LMK.
The zwift ramp test is decent. Sure it actually tests MAP but it's one of the better indoor tests IMO.

Other than that I occasionally time trail volcano flat to track progress.
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Old 12-30-21, 07:37 PM
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You can also turn down / off trainer realism and never run out or "road"
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Old 12-31-21, 10:07 AM
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Thanks for the trainer info. I have FOMO not having a smart trainer. I have both 10 speed and 11 speed bikes so I would set up the smart trainer with a 10 speed cassette and run my older technology bikes on it. I assume that the cassette on/off installation is no worse than a regular bike and that the bike fits on the smart trainer and shifts normally without much, if any adjustment. I assume is it like swapping wheels.

Leaning toward the Tacx Neo 2T.
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Old 12-31-21, 10:11 AM
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Shingle vaccine intervals. No real reaction but yesterday, my HR was 10 beats higher for the same power. Last night, I felt wired sleeping. I feel okay this AM. Shingles vaccine is a two shot regimen.

Also, it appears that the Shingles Vaccine provides some protection against Covid - who knew. Here is an article that discusses a study by Kaiser in SoCal.

https://www.thelondongeneralpractice...-and-covid-19/
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Old 12-31-21, 11:21 AM
  #16724  
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Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
TMonk TheKillerPenguin and others, which indoor trainer are you using? I know it has been mentioned before but I am too lazy to look back in time and your views may have changed. Thanks in advance.
Elite Direto circa 2018. I quite like it - it has been hassle free over approximately 700 hours of use and was a very good value at the time I bought it. However, it does not have the same inertia and road feel as more expensive models and I find that it holds me back when I try to do really hard efforts. With that said, it is mostly fine for anything up to vo2.

Whenever my Direto kicks the bucket I will be opting for one that has a heavier flywheel - but I honestly do like it a lot and recommend it without hesitation.
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Old 12-31-21, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by TMonk View Post
On a similar note, I tried my first FTP test indoors on Tuesday, since Fiesta Island was cold and muddy from the rains. Longer term, I like the idea of moving towards doing them indoors, since it's more practical and I might not always live next to a 20 min climb or open stretch of road with no interruption.

It went pretty crappy TBH. I tried it on Epic KOM since it's about 20 min at that level of effort for me. It's probably a bit too short of a segment anyway since when I get more fit, I'd run out of road. I was at the same number from my last test at 19' in, but I was a bit psyched out since I got a cryptic/seemingly urgent text from my mom a couple min prior (false alarm), and I was about to hit the ~30s downhill section and I like to ride at max trainer difficulty so it would have been challenging to keep the power up. But I knew that going in so I guess it was just poorly planned.

Not sure what I'll try next time; I'd like to develop some sort of routine. First 20' up the Alpe? Motor on Fuego Flats for a bit? It will be a work in progress.

If anyone else has any pro tips for doing FTP tests in Z, LMK.
The rolling section on Epic KOM usually nerfs my efforts. Would not recommend for FTP test IMO.

If aiming for a 20 minute effort Ventop is probably the best segment. It's relatively steady once the gradient kicks up. You could also do Innsbruck with a few minutes of lead-in to the climb.

For longer, I usually go with Alpe du Zwift and do anywhere between 30min and to the top depending on motivation and goals. The gradient shifts can be a little wonky but it's steady enough. Ventop is visually too monotonous for me to want to do longer intervals on, but maybe I just need to find the right TV show to pair with it.

Last edited by TheKillerPenguin; 12-31-21 at 11:35 AM.
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