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Advice Sought - What are these frames and bits worth?

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Advice Sought - What are these frames and bits worth?

Old 12-07-21, 05:08 PM
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Advice Sought - What are these frames and bits worth?

Hi everyone-

It's been a long time since I was on the site, for a variety of reasons. I have a smallish collection of frames and bits, and I could really use some validation on what these things are worth. In full disclosure, I posted a FS thread in the C&V marketplace, but this isnt a thread about selling. I havent generated a list of parts just yet, and will be doing so. In the meantime, I have photos and would love your thoughts on what I have here.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/c9aiHFvyJ6bMHSNp9

The bike frames are:
63CM Eddie Merckx MX-Leader with Campy Chorus everything.
62CM Panasonic Team America
62CM Bridgestone RB-1 - respray into the red (its a 1989 I believe)
61CM Calfee Dragonfly Pro with matching Calfee bars
60M Schwinn Paramount (its either a 1987 or a 1991)

Thanks for your help!

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Old 12-07-21, 10:21 PM
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They are very nice frames, but their large sizes tend to hurt their market values a bit......
The bigger ones might be at least 15% less than the same frames in more popular sizes (54 - 58cm).
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Old 12-07-21, 11:00 PM
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Agreed that the larger sizes will mean less buyers, therefore less value (relatively). As for the Calfee, I noted the fuzzed-out photo of the top tube in the original post in the FSOT thread; there appears to be some sort of issue. That would surely affect the value for me; what's the dealio there?

Here's the photo in question:



Something seems off there. Full disclosure of the condition of a carbon frame is a must when it comes to making an estimation of value.

DD
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Old 12-08-21, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Drillium Dude View Post
Agreed that the larger sizes will mean less buyers, therefore less value (relatively). As for the Calfee, I noted the fuzzed-out photo of the top tube in the original post in the FSOT thread; there appears to be some sort of issue. That would surely affect the value for me; what's the dealio there?

Here's the photo in question:



Something seems off there. Full disclosure of the condition of a carbon frame is a must when it comes to making an estimation of value.

DD
Frankly, this is just a bad photo. The top tube and the rest of the frame is good. I will update my photos, as I think I took this one late in the day on a very hot day and just didnt even pay attention to it.
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Old 12-08-21, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by P4D View Post
Frankly, this is just a bad photo. The top tube and the rest of the frame is good. I will update my photos, as I think I took this one late in the day on a very hot day and just didnt even pay attention to it.
Um, it's pretty obvious the photo was retouched in post production. This one, too:



DD
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Old 12-08-21, 03:31 PM
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Step 1: Great photos.

Step 2: honest to over the top description of any and all flaws.


In the world of on line sales, full disclosure is key or you will get complaints and returns. Savvy sellers understate condition defect wise.

Many of these show up on ebay. Of course, you have to pack and ship at a reasonable low cost, pay all the fees, buyers win all disputes.

I have had zero interest selling frames locally, hopefully market in your area is better. When I sell frames here, I price them at half of ebay pricing and discount further if someone picks up in person.


Getting FMV for a complete bike, and even more so for a frame, is a lot of work. Your ability to create a great ad, with awesome pictures, could represent half of your price versus a weaker ad/poorer pictures. Pictures sell items.

Any rust. missing parts, or wrong parts, lower value. Brake calipers for instance need all cable housing stops, Campy cranksets need Campy chainring bolts and Campy dust caps, and so on. Someone paying a Campy premium is not going to like Sugino chain ring bolts.

Rash on RDs is also a value killer. Buyers want near perfect parts. And sellers get rewarded when they provide them.

Last edited by wrk101; 01-06-22 at 04:18 PM.
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Old 12-08-21, 03:34 PM
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Where was that GPX group stored? I’ve never seen on in that bad shape
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Old 12-08-21, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Drillium Dude View Post
Um, it's pretty obvious the photo was retouched in post production. This one, too:



DD
No touch-ups. I used portrait mode on my iPhone. I took them, and dont retouch any photos mostly because I dont know how. But, appreciate your feedback!
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Old 12-08-21, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by P4D View Post
No touch-ups. I used portrait mode on my iPhone. I took them, and dont retouch any photos mostly because I dont know how. But, appreciate your feedback!
The newer iPhone portrait mode typically adds blur in the background of the subject. Whilst the amount of blur applied can be adjusted though options, I would suggest using a different mode to take these photos, one where the iPhone s/w does little to no post-processing.
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Old 12-09-21, 07:56 AM
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Assuming you would prefer local sales and avoid shipping, can you state where you are located city/state ?? Location also affects price for local sales.

Last edited by joesch; 12-09-21 at 08:18 AM.
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Old 12-09-21, 02:02 PM
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Do you have an updated photo without the blur please?

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Old 12-09-21, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Siu Blue Wind View Post
Do you have an updated photo without the blur please?

I will have some updated photos of this frame this afternoon. I got home just a little too late last night and needed to help my daughter with her history test. I will post them here and add them to my link. I am excited to show you that I am not obscuring anything at all, just was being lazy with the iPhone photo modes.
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Old 12-09-21, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by panzerwagon View Post
The newer iPhone portrait mode typically adds blur in the background of the subject. Whilst the amount of blur applied can be adjusted though options...
Thanks for that insight. With that in mind, I re-word my claim: the dropout photo was not retouched, but artificially "enhanced", and not in post-production but as a function of Portrait mode.

I still stand by my claim the top tube detail photo was manipulated after the fact.

DD
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Old 12-09-21, 09:24 PM
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I had that same MX Leader frame, same size even. Wonderful frame. I believe I sold it for $1200 about 3 years ago. It was near mint. You should sell yours on the Paceline Forum. That is where I bought and sold mine. That frame is very well regarded, especially by folks on that forum.
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Old 12-09-21, 09:56 PM
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Looks to be just a raindrop on the lens to me the frame looks good but yes better photo[s will be needed for good pricing. As said bare frames are just a hard sell unless really special.
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Old 12-22-21, 08:18 PM
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The Schwinn Paramount serial number is for a frame made in 1989.

The Suntour GPX components I am guessing are from the Bridgestone RB-1 and date from late 1988. The fork on the RB-1 may not be original based on the crown.
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Old 01-06-22, 03:47 PM
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Hi again all-

After the initial unwarranted flaming I took here, I stepped away from the site for a bit. I was particularly annoyed because out of 200+ photos 2 or 3 were foisted up as 'doctored in post-production' which called my entire collection and integrity into question. The quick-to-flame crowd hasn't changed at all since the time I left this site (and is the reason I left this site), and I was disappointed, annoyed and flabbergasted by the rush to accusation. I also moved into a new house, and decided spending time getting my family settled was a better choice than defending baseless, hasty, and nasty accusations. That was the right choice for me.

I came back to say that I didn't post-produce anything, and in fact don't even know how. I used the portrait mode on an iPhone to produce every single photo on a very hot September day, and didn't check a single one to see how they turned out. The photos turned out how they turned out, and if the iPhone made you think I was hiding something...well I am not. Because I have nothing to hide, I left every single photo in the album. Everything is there.

I took 31 new photos of the Calfee frame, which remains available to most here. The rest of the collection likewise remains available. I should add that every frame has the matching fork to go with it; I just didn't get them in the photos but I am happy to take photos and show those.

Calfee Photos
Bike Frames and Bits

I would really prefer to sell it as a whole, but I will take some time this weekend to re-catalog everything and take photos of anything anyone who is reasonable with me would like to see.

My problem remains I don't know how to price it all, but I will be working on that as well. I welcome any advice you have on how to specifically price anything I have. I want to be fair, and for most of the people here I would love to see these great parts end up in great hands. I appreciate all of the constructive help.

For those who have approached me with kindness and respect, thank you. For the others, well I guess it doesn't matter.

I am going to try to go through my PM's now and respond to those that warrant a response.

Thanks,
Alex

Last edited by P4D; 01-06-22 at 07:00 PM. Reason: Calfee Link fixed
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Old 01-06-22, 04:05 PM
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Your Callfree link is broken. The other one works.

If you are hoping one buyer buys all frames and parts, you'll take a big hit on the value. You are more likely to find a reseller, which maybe difficult at certain price points. Resellers will want a deal as it would take time to organize and resell each frame and component, or build bikes and sell those.

Personally, I'd group components that may go together and try to find buyers for each group. Much easier to find an asking price this way as well.
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Old 01-06-22, 04:43 PM
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To get a real legitimate appraisal is quite expensive, figure $125 to $250 per hour. And its not just the time looking at stuff. Its time traveling to your location and time spent doing research. After that, you will have an accurate appraisal, but it will still be up to you to get full market value for your stuff. No appraiser is going to write a check for your stuff. The person writing a check will be a buyer, and they won't pay full value for it.

The information given on this forum is NOT an appraisal IMHO. These comments, including mine, are VALUE OPINIONS. But hey, we are free!

An easier approach is to just pick ONE bike. Research sold pricing on ebay. Then decide if you are willing to pack and ship. If yes, put it up for sale on ebay. If it sits for over a month, adjust (lower) your price. If you prefer to sell locally, then price your one bike at 50% of the ebay price. Depending where you live, you might find a buyer out there. 50% of ebay is better than it sounds. First, there are no fees. Secondly, there are no taxes. Third, you don't have to pack and ship (major PITA in my opinion).

You can do the same with parts. Be critical on condition! Pick one or two, take some pictures, and put them up on ebay. The parts I see in your photo album pretty much sell every day on ebay.

I sell stuff on ebay every day. I have yet to have gotten a single item appraised. I rely on actual sold item pricing to set my prices. And after a month if the item doesn't sell, I lower my prices. So my "advice" above is what I do every day.

As far as unwarranted comments, its the internet. The internet is full of unwarranted comments. Its just how it goes. Feel free to ignore comments you don't like.

Last edited by wrk101; 01-06-22 at 05:22 PM.
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Old 01-06-22, 07:19 PM
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katsup link fixed
wrk101 agreed as to your last statement; I just rankled at my integrity being called into question in such a snap and wrongly based way.
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Old 01-07-22, 12:29 AM
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OP: Hey, I'm a big enough man to admit I was wrong.

However, I didn't make a snap judgement - I based my skepticism on asking for clarification on that one photo in particular not only in this thread, but the entry in the For Sale or Trade thread. No answer was given in response to that question, which made me question whether something was being hidden. The answer given here seemed like a brush-off given that the same question was totally ignored in the FSOT thread. So, yeah, I was skeptical. Now you've updated with clear and concise photos, no questions in my mind. Please accept my apology for questioning your integrity.

Cheers

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Old 01-07-22, 05:43 AM
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I love 80s steel and you’ve got some great bikes there.

I bought a Waterford Paramount frameset several years ago and paid $380 plus shipping. Same nice condition as yours and ~60cm. I always felt I paid too much but they don’t exactly grow on trees and I was just excited to find one so clean.

The Bridgestone looks like a quality repaint. I’d estimate it to be within $50 of the Paramount.

I really like the Panasonic although I have no real idea of value. I’d take a swag at $250 +/- $25.

As usual, I could be off by 50% in either direction. Keep us posted with what you learn elsewhere.
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Old 01-07-22, 06:21 AM
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P4D

That is a ton of stuff to keep straight...

The loose parts and frames could be put on the FS forum in chunks. I know there are several items I would be interested in if they were put up in bits.

It likely took awhile to amass; you probably should take your time to un-amass. You will get a whole lot more.

Last edited by jdawginsc; 01-08-22 at 09:24 AM.
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Old 01-07-22, 08:13 AM
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I must admit these frames and bits are very exciting to me since I could pickup local
Like many have noted, shipping is a PITA and will add about $150 in expense for a bike, less for frames given you get correct sized box and use cheapest shipping.
Lots of work selling parts given good pictures and descriptions are required for best prices.
Best option is to sell groups of components with above considerations.
The Merckx is a gem and it would be fun to buildup one of the JP frames.
I am subscribed
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Old 01-07-22, 03:03 PM
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Drillium Dude thanks for your message.

I will be working on the collection this weekend and recataloging it. Its all together, in several boxes from our home move.
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