darboma

Hi,

I am going to buy a new gravel bike. I wonder if it's worth paying more for Specialized Diverge COMP E5 2021 which seems to be less equipped than Cannondale Topstone 0 2021?
Which one is more suitable for bikepacking/long rides?

Maybe it's worth to buy Specialized Diverge COMP E5 2020 with Shimano 105 - what is the difference between GRX and 105?

Thanks for help.

con50582

GRX would give you better off pavement gearing options.

105 is Shimano’s mid road gearing set.

darboma

Diverge Comp E5 2021
FRONT BRAKE Shimano GRX RX600, hydraulic disc
REAR BRAKE Shimano GRX RX600, hydraulic disc
DRIVETRAIN SHIFT LEVERS Shimano GRX 600 hydraulic brake levers, mechanical shifting
REAR DERAILLEUR Shimano RX812 GX, Shadow Plus, 11-speed
CASSETTE Shimano SLX, 11-speed, 11-42t
CRANKSET Praxis Alba CHAINRINGS 40T

Topstone 0
Brake Levers Shimano GRX 800 hydraulic disc
Brakes Shimano GRX 800, hydraulic disc, 160/160mm RT54 rotors
Shifters Shimano GRX 800, 11-speed
Rear Derailleur Shimano GRX 810, Shadow RD+
Front Derailleur Shimano GRX 800, braze-on
Rear Cogs Shimano 105, 11-34, 11-speed
Crank FSA Omega AGX+ Alloy, 46/30

Both bikes are not equipped in full sets. Diverge has a lower group. Why Specialized is more expensive than Cannondale? Is it only a brand or something else? (+ Specialized has Future Shock 1.5)

BTW. Maybe it's not worth to pay for Diverge 2021 but rather buy 2020

Diverge Comp E5 2020
Brake Levers Shimano 105 hydraulic disc, ST-7025
Brakes Shimano 105 R7070, flat-mount hydraulic disc
Shifters Shimano 105, 11-speed, 11-34t
Rear Derailleur Shimano 105 R7000 GS, medium cage, 11-speed
Front Derailleur Shimano 105, Braze-On
Rear Cogs Shimano 105, 11-34, 11-speed
Crank Praxis Alba

mstateglfr 

I dont think the Topstone 0 exists in the US. Is that a Euro version or something? The Topstone 0 looks to cost 2000pounds. And the Diverge Comp E5 looks to cost 2200pounds.

I have no idea why the Diverge Comp E5 would cost so much. In the US, it costs $1900USD which is equal to 1420pounds.



Between the 2 bikes, I would go for the Topstone 0 if it really is cheaper. I like the drivetrain specs better. But if I had no preference on drivetrain(1x or 2x) and the bikes were close in cost, I would go for which fits best. Saving 200pounds and riding a bike that doesnt fit as well is dumb.

Steve B.

I would want the 2X Topstone over the 1X Diverge any day. Better gearing option, especially if you ever want to do some plain old road riding, where the extra gearing is a benefit.

They are both nice bikes. The Topstone has 3 water bottle cages plus a set of top tube bosses so adding a TT bag is easy. I've a Revelate MagTank on mine, it's a good size and the bolt on means it doesn't flop around like a bag secured with Velcro straps.

And FWIW, I like Specialized, owning a Chisel and Stumpjumper, but felt at the time (a year ago) the Topstone was a better buy. I've love this bike and put 1500 miles on it this year as my 2nd bike.

msu2001la

FWIW - GRX800 is roughly equivalent to Ultegra. GRX600 is roughly equivalent to 105. Functionally there's very little difference between GRX 600/800 groupsets, mostly just weight. A big difference between Ultegra/105 and GRX800/600 is that GRX has a clutched rear derailleur, so it'll reduce chain slap on rough roads. The other differences are more minor, especially considering that neither bike is running a GRX crankset.

The main difference between these two bikes seems to be 1x vs 2x gearing. Personally I prefer 1x because it's super flat where I live and I don't need a very big range, so even with 1x I can run a fairly tight range cassette, but if I lived in a mountainous area I'd definitely want 2x.

From a value perspective, the Topstone looks like a better buy if it's cheaper. GRX800 is a very nice groupset, plus it's 2x and if you decide to switch up to 1x in the future it's pretty easy to do.

Cpn_Dunsel

Topstone

Chi_Z

why alloy frame? you gonna spend more money down the road to upgrade to full carbon, I would rather get a carbon frame with a lower-tier groupset. It is much easier to upgrade groupset than a frame

darboma

I am not convinced of carbon in bikepacking usage

Cpn_Dunsel

I am convinced that it is a marketing push and it is not as good as steel or aluminium or titanium for gravel, bikepacking or Mtb but is great for road racing.

According to industry trends, carbon has just started to see a downturn in sales in mtn and gravel but still climbing on road bikes. SOURCE: https://99spokes.com/trends.

It is very cheap to manufacture and corps love it because it increases profits and that is why it is pushed by the industry. The buying market is just now beginning to figure it out that it is not such a good choice for rough biking applications.

zen_

If you're really considering bikepacking, the Topstone lacks fork mounts, which reduces loading options somewhat.

The Jamis Renegade S2/3 are bike you should also consider that are the perfect platforms for adventuring / bikepacking (sans giant tires) where the weight penalty of steel (~1 lb vs. alloy, ~2 lbs vs carbon) is not a concern.

Steve B.

If the OP is bikepacking, as opposed to fully loaded unsupported touring, he’d likely use bar bags, frame bags, etc...... which are preferred over using front and rear racks. Saves a bunch of weight but means you carry less and have to buy some expensive lightweight gear. A whole tread could tangent on this subject.

zen_

It might not be worth choosing one bike over another for the fork mounts, but I'd still rather have them than not. One problem I ran into over the summer where my Saturday rides were getting to be close to 10 hours (hopefully longer this year) is the hydro pack dilemma. They are handy, but ruin backside ventilation, which can start to get pretty oppressive on hot and humid days. It would have been nice to stick 2 more bottles on my fork instead some days for sure, or even carry 5 bottles with a hydro pack to go very long w/o a water stop. Larger frame bags can also interfere with, or totally block bottles in the usual two spots.

I only bring this up because I think people often get too obsessed with the parts on a bike without considering how it will actually work for them for the type of riding they will (or at least aspire) to do.

mstateglfr 

Not sure if you are aware of the Wolftooth BRad setup. It basically turns your 1 bottle cage into 2. You cant run a framebag though. You can mount 2 bottles in line or mount them side by side. This could help with your long rides without water stops.

https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/...s/b-rad-system

darboma

I live in Poland - Gdansk. As I see James is available in Europe only in the UK. I rather buy something locally. My choice is Cannondale for 2147 euro. Thanks everyone for the advice.

msu2001la

I agree that carbon wouldn't be my preferred material choice for a bike that would specifically be used for bikepacking. Carbon is great for bikes were weight and performance are priorities, which is why it's typically associated with higher end performance oriented bikes.

I don't agree that a 3% drop from 2019-2020 signals a "downturn in sales". That same chart shows MTB carbon has grown from 15% to 39% over the last 10 years. It's also worth considering that gravel doesn't seem to be listed as a separate segment in that chart (I'm assuming it's counted as road?). Also, bike stores sold record numbers of cheap bikes in 2020 due to COVID, so the 2020 numbers are probably not going to follow recent trends.

Wilbur76

Geometry and fit is the most important aspect for me. I’ve demoed both the 2020 diverge and topstone and favor the diverge more. Felt a little stretched out on the topstone which doesn’t work on my shorter torso.

Chi_Z

diverge have 7mm longer reach in size 56 but it usually comes with shorter stem

Wilbur76

Probably stack height vs reach. I’ve recently added shorter stems with 35 degree inclines on my non-quill stem bikes for more comfort. My old inflexible back. Anyway as another point to compare is geometry. I use bikeinsights.com for that. Tremendously helpful.

darboma

......................Stack .....Reach... Top Tube Length...... Head Tube Length
Topstone:..... 579 ........385........ 561........................... 149
Diverge:....... 610........ 392........ 573........................... 133


hmmm

I used 99spokes

According to what is shown in bikeinsights.com position on Diverge is slightly more relaxed - straight.

mstateglfr 

...but if you use the next size up Topstone, you get a stack height of 610mm and a reach of 394 with an ETT of 579.
In the large size, the Topstone is almost identical in stack and reach to whatever size Diverge you looked at. For all intents and purposes, it is identical in stack and reach.

Cpn_Dunsel

Good point however the data sourced is through year end 2019 sales, prior to the Covid boom.

As gravel grows more and more inclusive we will see continued growth in aluminium sales relative to carbon. 2019 was a landmark year in that we saw several major companies make shift towards creating a true market for non-racing enthusiasts and also components starting to be manufactured specifically for "gravel" riding.

Here's an interesting piece from earlier this year that argues for the positive impact the genre has had on the industry and why it is likely to continue its boom even after the Covid. As more and more regular folks take to it and the Fred factor lowers there will be a spike in metal and steel bikes.

Also more threaded BB's.

Companies like Trek that have been exploiting the ignorance of most people (Selling $2,000 bikes with lousy wheels with non-self serviceable hubs, press-fit BB's, road gearing and unable to fit fatter tires) will be forced to actually change and make bikes to meet the demand of educated gravel consumers.

There are a lot more miles of "gravel" roads out there in the public domain than there are single tracks and the segment is set to explode. With the new aluminium technologies and their success in racing its gonna keep that pendulum swinging in the same direction and continue to drive sales.

mstateglfr 

I dont understand the bold section.
What are the new technologies and how have they applied to success in racing?