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Help me identify this pre '60 Pista - thanks!

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Help me identify this pre '60 Pista - thanks!

Old 05-23-22, 01:38 PM
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indycycling
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Help me identify this pre '60 Pista - thanks!

I picked this up from a retired Schwinn shop owner (80+ years old) of many years, 35+ years. He shared that his wife raced this pista at the Track Nationals many moons ago. He thought it was a Diamant, but it's not looking like it to me.

Here is what I know from inspection, what he told me or what I learned from some great folks at the CABE - 166mm stays and 66mm bottom bracket width; BB is stamped "British Made" with a serial number and has top side oil filler; Campy large flange hub lock nut dated '58 which lines up with integral headset being phased out by around '60.

Parts are Stronglight Competition crank #54 and cool, rare I think, roller bearing bottom bracket; pedals Berthet Lyotard M23; seat is non original and junk.

White paint looks original, heavy patina; tri color decals look original, but seat tube decal he says his wife added it, says Arnold Schwinn. Lug work is unique. I'd like to identify the maker, clean it up and assemble back to it's former glory.

Experts, what have I got here? Thanks in advance!











Last edited by indycycling; 05-24-22 at 07:34 AM. Reason: update
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Old 05-23-22, 01:48 PM
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What I find most interesting is the bottom bracket bearings arrangement- appears original- uncommon assembly/ cottered even!

no idea on the maker though
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Old 05-23-22, 02:24 PM
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Thanks and agree - someone else shared some literature but it was the cotterless style. This is pretty rare. I'll get that cleaned up and reinstalled along with the headset.
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Old 05-23-22, 02:32 PM
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-----

an earlier discussion thread on the bicycle reposes here -

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/in...-pista.208795/



-----
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Old 05-23-22, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by indycycling
Thanks and agree - someone else shared some literature but it was the cotterless style. This is pretty rare. I'll get that cleaned up and reinstalled along with the headset.
So that is a "Hat in the ring" ST decal?
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Old 05-23-22, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by merziac
So that is a "Hat in the ring" ST decal?
If you mean the seat tube decal, I don't believe it's original and she added it because they both owned a Schwinn dealership shop. Maybe part of the decal with the rings is original, but the center section says Schwinn and it's not original to the bike

Last edited by indycycling; 05-23-22 at 02:46 PM.
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Old 05-23-22, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by juvela
-----

an earlier discussion thread on the bicycle reposes here -

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/in...-pista.208795/



-----
juvela, thanks again for this great info over there!
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Old 05-23-22, 02:54 PM
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Is this a Wastyn-built bike of some stripe? The lugs looks similar to the ones they used before switching to Nervex Professionals - maybe 40s? Are there points on the head lugs aimed at each other?
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Old 05-23-22, 06:22 PM
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And if it is indeed a product of clan Wastyn, theres’s another tie-in to Schwinn, since they built the earliest Paramounts.
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Old 05-23-22, 06:23 PM
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Very interesting bike. Does it say “STAN” on the BB shell?
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Old 05-23-22, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by indycycling
If you mean the seat tube decal, I don't believe it's original and she added it because they both owned a Schwinn dealership shop. Maybe part of the decal with the rings is original, but the center section says Schwinn and it's not original to the bike
I was talking about this one which is too big to be the one on your ST but it sure looks like she was trying to emulate an old Paramount with that colorway.


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Old 05-23-22, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by rustystrings61
Is this a Wastyn-built bike of some stripe? The lugs looks similar to the ones they used before switching to Nervex Professionals - maybe 40s? Are there points on the head lugs aimed at each other?
They do look a bit like Wastyn "keyhole" lugs but I don't think they are even a version.

Here's a good example from a Paramount with chrome ones.




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Old 05-23-22, 09:34 PM
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I was thinking more along the lines of this bike.



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Old 05-23-22, 11:02 PM
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Late 1930's Onward Schwinn Track Bike



Small "Hat In The Ring" seat tube decal....

The frame could be older than the components. Check the serial number on the Waterford website. They could restore the paint and decals for lots of $$$.

We had one of these on Schwinn track bikes display at our shop in the 70's. It dated from the 1930's. Stone's Cyclery in Alameda, CA currently has one that's been on display for years....



Poor quality picture from Stone's website....

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Old 05-23-22, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by indycycling
If you mean the seat tube decal, I don't believe it's original and she added it because they both owned a Schwinn dealership shop. Maybe part of the decal with the rings is original, but the center section says Schwinn and it's not original to the bike
I see now from your thread at the cabe and Chas's example that it is a Schwinn "hat in the ring" as I thought, but a smaller version.
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Old 05-24-22, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by rustystrings61
I was thinking more along the lines of this bike.


Well the bike in question says "British made" on the BB, wonder what the blue one says?

Also very interesting to me is the blue lugs look to have been thinned, something I have never seen from Wastyn on a Paramount, yet here it is pre Pmount.

Looks like the original owner of the white one knew plenty we don't.

So many questions.
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Old 05-24-22, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by rustystrings61
Is this a Wastyn-built bike of some stripe? The lugs looks similar to the ones they used before switching to Nervex Professionals - maybe 40s? Are there points on the head lugs aimed at each other?
Thanks, yes, the lugs do have points and face each other
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Old 05-24-22, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by RustyJames
Very interesting bike. Does it say “STAN” on the BB shell?
Good morning, yes in fact it does say STAN, along with BRITISH MADE and has a serial number stamping as well. What does STAN mean? thanks
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Old 05-24-22, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by merziac
I was talking about this one which is too big to be the one on your ST but it sure looks like she was trying to emulate an old Paramount with that colorway.


Yes indeed, it's the same hat in ring on my seat tube, just different colors - sorry, learning as we go here, thanks again!
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Old 05-24-22, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by merziac
They do look a bit like Wastyn "keyhole" lugs but I don't think they are even a version.

Here's a good example from a Paramount with chrome ones.




Interesting lugs, mine look identical to the blue posted below, however, my fork crown looks identical to this green paramount, except it's painted, not chrome - thanks
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Old 05-24-22, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by rustystrings61
I was thinking more along the lines of this bike.



Those lugs are an exact match to mine! Is this a Wastyn? Any more info on this blue bike? thanks
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Old 05-24-22, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by merziac
I see now from your thread at the cabe and Chas's example that it is a Schwinn "hat in the ring" as I thought, but a smaller version.
Yes, it sure is, I'm learning as we go here. I now think the 80+ year old gent's memory may have been mistaken as this hat in the ring decal sure looks original to the bike
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Old 05-24-22, 07:51 AM
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The "British Made" stamping on the BB shell - isn't that an indication of where the BB shell was made, more so than the origin of the complete bike? If it is an Oscar Wastyn-built frame, wouldn't he have used parts available from Great Britain? As I look at those lugs, I wonder who made them - they make me think of Ekla, but I just don't know enough about lug suppliers in the interwar and immediate postwar era. But I think that having lugs that match a pre-war Wastyn and a crown that matches an early Paramount might lead one to poke around Chicago.

Wastyn Cycles still exists - I would take some more photos and see what they say.
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Old 05-24-22, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by verktyg


Small "Hat In The Ring" seat tube decal....

The frame could be older than the components. Check the serial number on the Waterford website. They could restore the paint and decals for lots of $$$.

We had one of these on Schwinn track bikes display at our shop in the 70's. It dated from the 1930's. Stone's Cyclery in Alameda, CA currently has one that's been on display for years....



Poor quality picture from Stone's website....

verktyg
Thanks! That one at Stone's sure looks alot like mine. I'll contact them. I did check the Waterford site and my serial number isn't seeming to align - I've got a single digit like an "I" followed by 571, then what appears to be a double stamped 3 then a 0 or 6. I'll take a pencil rub lift and see what I can tell, but this doesn't seem to be Waterford numbering, thanks
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Old 05-24-22, 08:12 AM
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I don't know if this is a Paramount - but I DO think it came from Oscar Wastyn's shop. The link to the blue bike's history is here - though you'll probably have to navigate past the concerns that it's not a safe link. It's a late '30s bike with a similar spec to a Paramount, but with B.S.A,. cranks rather than Schwinn's choice.
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