Dancing Skeleton

This exact thing happened to someone in my club a couple of weeks agoo

sfrider 

Well, that's when it broke, but I'm talking about when it got damaged.

Noctilux.95

I disagree with your disagreement.

GlennR

Seems the be a rash of people backing their cars with their bike on them into things.

It happened twice to this guy. And a lot of others.

https://www.bikeradar.com/features/s...crank-failure/
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/t...ling-analysis/
https://weightweenies.starbike.com/f...c.php?t=143022
https://weightweenies.starbike.com/f...c.php?t=143022

Noctilux.95

Shimano is more like Toyota reliability with Porsche performance. But you were right comparing the other brand to Ford and Chevy.

GlennR

Then why does the new Supra have a BMW engine in it?
https://www.motor1.com/news/298196/t...e-explanation/

And i bet there's not a single part based on a Toyota part in any of the Toyota NASCAR or NHRA race cars.

Noctilux.95

for every one of those there are 10 of the other brand that fall apart. And that’s just the crank. Let’s not talk about their derailleur failure, brake performance, and worthless 10t on the cassette. But hey, it’s wireless even with those chunky batteries.
.

GlennR

I'll wait for your documentation.

But so far you've failed on every other attempt.

You're really hung up on the side of the batteries. Is there anything else you have an issue with size?

mrblue

I have never tried Shimano Di2 or Campagnolo EPS. However, when I decided to go with electronic shifting I faced the same question. For me, however, it was a no-brainer. I went with SRAM Force eTap AXS. Why?

1. It's not Shimano. Not that I have anything against Shimano but all I've really used has been Shimano and I wanted something entirely different.
2. It's not Campagnolo. I've had too many problems with Campy parts failing and being unreliable.
3. There are no wires!
4. There are no junction boxes or batteries in inconvenient places
5. It's easy to stow an extra battery in your pocket or saddle bag.
6. The shifting is very intuitive, left goes up, right goes down, both move the front.
   1. The Shimano paddles looked too small and seemed like they would be clumsy to shift in the winter with thick gloves.

What I don't like about the SRAM Force eTap AXS groupset:

1. The graphics. Ugly and garrish.
2. Limited choice of chainring sizes.
3. Front shifting feels a little slow.

Atlas Shrugged

A couple of pluses for Shimano from my perspective.

The Shadow style derailleur which prevents damage as its much lower profile than SRAM.
The industry standard for many components such as brake pads, wheels, free hubs and chains is a big deal for me when traveling or touring.
1 Battery over 4
Brakes are awesome and stay centered longer.
Its wired (wireless only advantage is initial build is faster )

sfrider 

As a stop gap until they've finished their updated rotary design?

GlennR

Porsche engine, so dominant that they changed the rules and outlawed it.

deepakvrao

Is 11 speed etap available easily?

sfrider 

Also, looks like Toyota more importantly borrowed the BMW multi-link suspension system - so why not use their perfectly fine engine as well. As opposed to every other Toyota/Lexus out there with Macpherson struts and a low-compression ratio engine. You get ride comfort or performance, but not both since any travel significantly alters the steering geometry, and once the suspension is worn and travel increased performs very erratically on bumpy roads or in tight corners. Especially under braking, like how most people approach freeway off-ramp donuts - brake dragging. Loads the front. If the suspension is worn nose dives, and the resulting steering geometry makes the car want to change direction. You compensate, which shifts the weight, which again changes the direction. So the car under suspension load goes any which way except where you want to. With multi-link all you get is the wallowing, but handling remains solid and steering predictable, even under hard enough braking to trigger the ABS. Mcpherson struts are fine if travel is very limited and a hard ride acceptable, but not exactly a daily driver for most of us. So, basically, the partnership is a way for Toyota to step up its game a little.

DaveSSS 

Just for good measure, you can still get this groupo for the same price from pinkjersey.com. It's the cheapest 12 speed group made. Maybe shimano will have 12 speed ultegra in 2022, to become the new low price leader.

I have Sramanolo groups. Both have Campy brakes and crank. One has a Campy 11-34 cassette and the other has a SRAM 10-36. I could care less if you're tired of reading it. A lot of people have no clue that both brands have parts that work well together. I've come to prefer the AXS chain. The force chains wear well and only cost $35.

If there's anything else I can post to further your irritation let me know. This is fun.

Bah Humbug

So just don't use the Shimano cranksets; I use Quarqs anyway.

Noctilux.95

Batteries? I never discussed battery size. Read again.

GlennR

Sorry, got you confused with one of the other H@TERS.

deepakvrao

I like Di2, but etap would work better from my future upgrades. No need to drill the frames. So, seriously asking, what is it that you prefer so much over di2?

GlennR

Me... I have nothing against Di2 other than the small buttons. I dislike Shimano mechanical, I just hate those "floppy" brake levers for shifting.

I do like the more intuitive shifting of eTap, left moves it left and right moves it right. I also work on my bike, i put a lot of miles on, and being able to remove the RD and crank and not having to deal with wires or junction boxes is just easier for me. And if I wanted to take a spare battery... they are very light, easily fit in eh saddle bag and take 2 seconds to change.

DaveSSS 

I did some searches for sellers of force axs complete groups and found little. There are plenty of partial groups. My big complaint with the AXS groups is the 13T difference at the crank. First they add range with a 12th sprocket, then take it away at the crank. Their initial advertising compared the small increases in range to shimano 11 speed and ignored the fact that Campy had 12 speed and cranks with a larger range. Hence my choice to use Campy 12 cranks, but the only options that make sense with a 10T sprocket are the 50/34 and 48/32. A 46/30 would be great.

The axs brake/shift levers are great for small hands. The brake levers have 3 positions. I use the shortest reach. Campy levers only have two positions.

topflightpro

My wife's new bike came with Force AXS. On her other bikes, she has run Red 11-spd, Red 10-spd, Force 10-spd, Utlegra/105 9-spd and Rival 10-spd hydraulic disc.

She likes the AXS a lot. She never really liked the Shimano shifters, which is why she moved to Sram, which fit her hands better. Also, her Ultegra/105 set up was 9-spd triple, so shifting kind of sucked anyway.

I know lots of people with Ultegra Di2, and they like it a lot.

You really can't go wrong. Just figure out which one you like best and go for it.

colnago62

Why do you care so much about what brand people ride? They have their reasons and you have yours. Can you just leave at that and not derail the whole discussion?

GlennR

I just see a lot of bashing Sram from people that never used it. I've not bashed Shimano.

I'm just calling out H@TERS.

BTW.. you must be new to the interweb. Topics are always derailed by the 10th post.

The OP posted in the 1st and 4th and hasn't been back. 70 posts later and now it's my fault. Sure.. go ahead.

Plainsman

OP is back. Just trying to catch up! I'm looking at two endurance bikes, identically priced, similar weight and build, one has the new SRAM Force12 speed AXS, the other Shimano Di2 Ultegra. That's my quandry. I've never had any electronic group, and if I pull the trigger I assume I'll have this for awhile. I ride a 10 speed Ultegra group right now and use a climbing cassette (12-32), so I can feel the gaps (not "feel" as in shifting is bad, but as in not always being able to land on a cadence sweet spot.) Where and how I ride I'm fine with spinning out when the speed tops just over 30 as long as I have low low gears that will let me hang on to double digit grades for a long time. The 12 speed AXS interests me because at a wide range it seems like I would have smaller gaps. My friends who own Di2 all love it, but none have SRAM experience. My only real SRAM hesitation is the stories that keep popping up about how the new Force AXS group is really loud, and that you can't seem to work the noise out of the cassette without updating to Red, and not even then does it go away. I think the Ultegra Di2 group has a fantastic look to it, and while I don't like the Force as much it doesn't turn me off either. On the internet especially, small problems seem to get overblown so I don't know how prevalent the Force eTap rear cassette/chain noise issue really is. On the flip side, I've never to my recollection heard anyone complain about Di2 noise or reliability (the connectivity interface on the other hand though...). I realize this choice is nowhere near a dilemma (it's not bad at all in fact), just hoping to gather as much data, info, and opinions as I can.