Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

So my "Tubeless Ready" rims are actually...not?

Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

So my "Tubeless Ready" rims are actually...not?

Old 03-26-22, 05:53 PM
  #1  
pbass
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,186

Bikes: 2016 Surly Cross Check, 2019 Kona Rove ST

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 284 Post(s)
Liked 313 Times in 211 Posts
So my "Tubeless Ready" rims are actually...not?

I have a 2019 Kona Rove ST I bought new, and the bike spec said the rims were "WTB Asym i23 TCS". Well, getting tubeless tires (all WTB--Byways, Ventures, and now Senderos) to mount to these rims has been a nightmare every time. I've never once been able to do it myself - I have one of those Blackburn pumps with the compression chamber, and have even tried the gas station high powered air pump. Always had to take it to the LBS. The last time, it took 2 guys wrestling it for an hour to get the then new Senderos to mount.
So, the Senderos have been on now for a year, and I just popped one side off because something was clogging my valve, so I could clean it out. Now, that side will not mount again.
I took it to the LBS and they tried for a good while and basically gave up---they said these rims don't appear to actually be tubeless compatible. That would certainly explain why it's always been a struggle and apparently just luck when they do actually mount. They were sold as "TCS". However, the rim does not say "TCS" anywhere on it. See the pic. Is it the case then that these really aren't TCS rims?

https://konaworld.com/archive/2019/rove_st.cfm



EDIT: I also tried a different tire, the Venture that had previously been on it, and still no luck. Tried the soapy water trick...nada.

Last edited by pbass; 03-26-22 at 07:17 PM.
pbass is offline  
Old 03-26-22, 06:15 PM
  #2  
tyrion
Senior Member
 
tyrion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 4,077

Bikes: Velo Orange Piolet

Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2228 Post(s)
Liked 2,011 Times in 972 Posts
You should be able to tell by looking at the rim profile:


tyrion is offline  
Likes For tyrion:
Old 03-26-22, 06:55 PM
  #3  
pbass
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,186

Bikes: 2016 Surly Cross Check, 2019 Kona Rove ST

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 284 Post(s)
Liked 313 Times in 211 Posts
It does have the center channel -- see this pic. I had put a tube in earlier and inflated it way up and the bead totally seated. But, I now take out the tube, put my tubeless valve back in nice and tight, pump up the air cylinder to 160psi and let 'er rip, and....nothin'.
pbass is offline  
Old 03-26-22, 07:18 PM
  #4  
Rolla
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 2,888
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1346 Post(s)
Liked 3,269 Times in 1,439 Posts
Everything I read about this rim indicates that it's tubeless. Try a different tire?
Rolla is offline  
Likes For Rolla:
Old 03-26-22, 07:21 PM
  #5  
_ForceD_
Sr Member on Sr bikes
 
_ForceD_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Rhode Island (sometimes in SE Florida)
Posts: 2,306

Bikes: Several...from old junk to new all-carbon.

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1012 Post(s)
Liked 762 Times in 409 Posts
I’ve never used tubeless on a bike. But I’ve seen tire techs and car mechanics put a strap around the tire and tighten it to get the bead to seal when they begin inflating. Something like that might work on a tubeless bike tire. Maybe a long piece of cord tied tightly around the tire. Then once/if the bead sets, remove the cord and fully inflate.


Dan
_ForceD_ is offline  
Old 03-26-22, 07:36 PM
  #6  
pbass
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,186

Bikes: 2016 Surly Cross Check, 2019 Kona Rove ST

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 284 Post(s)
Liked 313 Times in 211 Posts
Yep, tried a tire that had previously been on that wheel. Still no luck.
pbass is offline  
Old 03-26-22, 07:44 PM
  #7  
pbass
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,186

Bikes: 2016 Surly Cross Check, 2019 Kona Rove ST

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 284 Post(s)
Liked 313 Times in 211 Posts
Originally Posted by Rolla
Everything I read about this rim indicates that it's tubeless. Try a different tire?
Yep, tried a WTB Venture that was previously on this wheel. No luck.

This has always been an issue with these WTB rims and all three of the WTB tires I have used with them. LBS's have always had to struggle to get them to mount. It seems like it's just luck when it works. Sucks, because, I want to be able to change my darn tires myself! I got the tubeless cylinder pump for that very reason. As I say I even tried the gas station air compressor. I feel like it shouldn't be this hard. Would springing for new/better rims mean I'd have a greater likelihood of more ease of tubeless maintenance?
pbass is offline  
Old 03-26-22, 07:52 PM
  #8  
pbass
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,186

Bikes: 2016 Surly Cross Check, 2019 Kona Rove ST

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 284 Post(s)
Liked 313 Times in 211 Posts
Originally Posted by _ForceD_
I’ve never used tubeless on a bike. But I’ve seen tire techs and car mechanics put a strap around the tire and tighten it to get the bead to seal when they begin inflating. Something like that might work on a tubeless bike tire. Maybe a long piece of cord tied tightly around the tire. Then once/if the bead sets, remove the cord and fully inflate.


Dan
The mechs at the LBS tried that trick too, putting straps around it. Two mechanics were working on it, just like the last time----it took 2 guys over an hour to finally get it to seat.
pbass is offline  
Old 03-26-22, 07:55 PM
  #9  
Troul 
Senior Member
 
Troul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Mich
Posts: 7,291

Bikes: RSO E-tire dropper fixie brifter

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 2,910 Times in 1,884 Posts
roll firmly the tire while on the rim during inflation.
__________________
-Oh Hey!
Troul is offline  
Old 03-26-22, 07:56 PM
  #10  
Rolla
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 2,888
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1346 Post(s)
Liked 3,269 Times in 1,439 Posts
Originally Posted by pbass
Yep, tried a WTB Venture that was previously on this wheel. No luck.

This has always been an issue with these WTB rims and all three of the WTB tires I have used with them. LBS's have always had to struggle to get them to mount. It seems like it's just luck when it works. Sucks, because, I want to be able to change my darn tires myself! I got the tubeless cylinder pump for that very reason. As I say I even tried the gas station air compressor. I feel like it shouldn't be this hard. Would springing for new/better rims mean I'd have a greater likelihood of more ease of tubeless maintenance?
I've had no issues with the two WTB tubeless wheelsets I own (only one uses WTB tires), so I can't really say if other rims would necessarily work better -- and that can be an expensive experiment!

Maybe try mounting a non-WTB tire? Or ask if the shop has a non-WTB rim they'd let you try to mount your WTB tire on, just to see?
Rolla is offline  
Old 03-26-22, 08:01 PM
  #11  
pbass
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,186

Bikes: 2016 Surly Cross Check, 2019 Kona Rove ST

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 284 Post(s)
Liked 313 Times in 211 Posts
Originally Posted by Rolla
I've had no issues with the two tubeless wheelsets I own (both have WTB rims, one uses WTB tires), so I can't really say if other rims would necessarily work better -- and that can be an expensive experiment!

Maybe try mounting a non-WTB tire? Or ask if the shop has a non-WTB rim they'd let you try to mount your WTB tire on, just to see?
Yeah, I mean, that's the only reason I would spring for new rims. It's not a ride quality issue for me. And as you say, sounds like an expensive experiment.

I'd be down to try other tires, but then as with new rims what am I chasing? It just seems like something is off here--"tubeless ready" WTB rims and tubeless WTB tires that don't play well together. And it's been true w the Ventures and the Senderos, so it's not just one particular tire. Maybe I just got a crappy pair of WTB rims?
pbass is offline  
Old 03-26-22, 08:08 PM
  #12  
tyrion
Senior Member
 
tyrion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 4,077

Bikes: Velo Orange Piolet

Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2228 Post(s)
Liked 2,011 Times in 972 Posts
This technique works for me:


I have WTB KOM Tough i25 rims and Gravelking SK 700x50. I pull half the bead on each side up on the "shelf" and that puts a lot of tension on the beads so it holds air well enough I can pump it up with a regular floor pump - I don't even have to take the valve cores out.

Last edited by tyrion; 03-26-22 at 09:49 PM.
tyrion is offline  
Likes For tyrion:
Old 03-26-22, 08:16 PM
  #13  
Rolla
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 2,888
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1346 Post(s)
Liked 3,269 Times in 1,439 Posts
Originally Posted by pbass
Maybe I just got a crappy pair of WTB rims?
Yeah, I don't know. I want to think there's a technique that would solve it, but if the shop wrestled with it for an hour, maybe it's time to cut your losses... Ugh. How frustrating.
Rolla is offline  
Old 03-26-22, 08:52 PM
  #14  
cxwrench
Senior Member
 
cxwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Nor-Cal
Posts: 3,767

Bikes: lots

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1958 Post(s)
Liked 2,932 Times in 1,489 Posts
We just had major problems w/ WTB rims and getting tires to hold air. Their center channel is pretty deep. We taped the rims probably 5-6 different times and then gave up. We called WTB (they're right down the street from us) and they brought some silly little bits that were supposed to go between the valve lockring and the rim. They didn't help at all. I had mentioned to the guy working on it originally that I've seen some narrow (width of the center channel basically) red tape w/ some WTB rims. We called, asked for that and boom...no more leaks. It goes under the normal tubeless tape. That would help w/ seating as well. I'm pretty much convinced that their stuff just kinda sucks.
cxwrench is offline  
Likes For cxwrench:
Old 03-26-22, 09:09 PM
  #15  
pbass
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,186

Bikes: 2016 Surly Cross Check, 2019 Kona Rove ST

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 284 Post(s)
Liked 313 Times in 211 Posts
Originally Posted by cxwrench
We just had major problems w/ WTB rims and getting tires to hold air. Their center channel is pretty deep. We taped the rims probably 5-6 different times and then gave up. We called WTB (they're right down the street from us) and they brought some silly little bits that were supposed to go between the valve lockring and the rim. They didn't help at all. I had mentioned to the guy working on it originally that I've seen some narrow (width of the center channel basically) red tape w/ some WTB rims. We called, asked for that and boom...no more leaks. It goes under the normal tubeless tape. That would help w/ seating as well. I'm pretty much convinced that their stuff just kinda sucks.
Man, I think maybe that's the case here. Maybe it's time upgrade. I did really make sure the valve was super snug. I even put a little sealant around the base of the valve and let it sit. I have not tried more tape. The fact that my LBS guys who are really top notch are just throwing up their hands on it makes me feel like it's a losing battle with these WTB components.
pbass is offline  
Old 03-26-22, 09:13 PM
  #16  
pbass
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,186

Bikes: 2016 Surly Cross Check, 2019 Kona Rove ST

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 284 Post(s)
Liked 313 Times in 211 Posts
Originally Posted by tyrion
This technique works for me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rkb...=SydFixesBikes

I have WTB KOM Tough i25 rims and Gravelking SK 700x50. I get pull the bead on each side up on the "shelf" and that puts a lot of tension on the beads so it holds air well enough I can pump it up with a regular floor pump - I don't even have to take the valve cores out.
I'll give it a go!
pbass is offline  
Old 03-27-22, 12:59 AM
  #17  
Darth Lefty 
Disco Infiltrator
 
Darth Lefty's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Folsom CA
Posts: 13,775

Bikes: Stormchaser, Paramount, Tilt, Samba tandem

Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3126 Post(s)
Liked 2,102 Times in 1,366 Posts
When I changed my gravel bike tire I had a hell of a time, much worse than Schwalbe tires on my Scraper rims, and I think the cause is the rim width. It's a WTB this size though not this model. MTB rims are much wider so the shelf from the inner channel to the bead seat is a lot more forgiving of the technique shown in the video above. I had a similar problem once with an asym rim whose channel was off center, not the usual arrangement. (Diamondback Blanchard, fwiw.) The wide side went easy, the narrow side was just a pain in the ass. It definitely does help to pull as much as possible of the bead into place as you can so it's good and tight before you start to add air.

WTB rims also have a ridge between the "shelf" and the bead seat which is supposed to guide the bead over and lock it in, but definitely does also present an obstacle that literally must be overcome. Called "On Ramp" in their ad copy.

When I use a compressor I have the valve core out and use the blowoff nozzle.
__________________
Genesis 49:16-17

Last edited by Darth Lefty; 03-27-22 at 01:03 AM.
Darth Lefty is offline  
Likes For Darth Lefty:
Old 03-27-22, 09:33 AM
  #18  
pbass
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,186

Bikes: 2016 Surly Cross Check, 2019 Kona Rove ST

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 284 Post(s)
Liked 313 Times in 211 Posts
Originally Posted by Darth Lefty
When I changed my gravel bike tire I had a hell of a time, much worse than Schwalbe tires on my Scraper rims, and I think the cause is the rim width. It's a WTB this size though not this model. MTB rims are much wider so the shelf from the inner channel to the bead seat is a lot more forgiving of the technique shown in the video above. I had a similar problem once with an asym rim whose channel was off center, not the usual arrangement. (Diamondback Blanchard, fwiw.) The wide side went easy, the narrow side was just a pain in the ass. It definitely does help to pull as much as possible of the bead into place as you can so it's good and tight before you start to add air.

WTB rims also have a ridge between the "shelf" and the bead seat which is supposed to guide the bead over and lock it in, but definitely does also present an obstacle that literally must be overcome. Called "On Ramp" in their ad copy.

When I use a compressor I have the valve core out and use the blowoff nozzle.
Interesting--thanks. Unfortunately my Blackburn Tubeless pump has a head that only locks onto the valve if the valve core is in. I'm going to see if they make a different one I can swap out. But aside from my amateur attempts, I mean, the the pros at the LBS struggle with these rims every...damn...time. I'm going to see if they'll take one more crack at it (since they did successfully mount it originally, albeit with lots of aggravation). But I will buy new rims of a different brand if it means I won't have to go through this every time I want to change a tire!
pbass is offline  
Old 03-27-22, 12:37 PM
  #19  
pbass
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,186

Bikes: 2016 Surly Cross Check, 2019 Kona Rove ST

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 284 Post(s)
Liked 313 Times in 211 Posts
Well, we have a happy ending. I took it to another LBS and after a few tries w the compressor the mechanic theorized that maybe the tape had gotten compromised when I pulled the bead off, and also noticed my valve wasn't seated ideally in the rim(which might have been from my frustrated tightening it w pliers). He re-taped the rim and put in a new valve and voila! It popped right into place with barely a squirt from the compressor. Total relief and something new for my noobie education.
pbass is offline  
Likes For pbass:
Old 03-27-22, 02:10 PM
  #20  
yannisg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NW Peloponnese, Greece
Posts: 546
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 112 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 25 Times in 22 Posts
I always had a hard time sealing tubeless road tires after they had been used, and removed for cleaning. A few times I had to use a new tire even though the old tire had many klm left. I tried straps, soapy solution, pressing the tire into the rim, a compressor, nothing worked. I was always able to seal the new tires with a floor pump.
The combination was Shimano tubeless rims with Hutchinson fusion tires.
Once I changed to Conti tubeless I was able to seal used tires using a compressor..
yannisg is offline  
Likes For yannisg:
Old 03-27-22, 04:21 PM
  #21  
pbass
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,186

Bikes: 2016 Surly Cross Check, 2019 Kona Rove ST

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 284 Post(s)
Liked 313 Times in 211 Posts
Originally Posted by yannisg
I always had a hard time sealing tubeless road tires after they had been used, and removed for cleaning. A few times I had to use a new tire even though the old tire had many klm left. I tried straps, soapy solution, pressing the tire into the rim, a compressor, nothing worked. I was always able to seal the new tires with a floor pump.
The combination was Shimano tubeless rims with Hutchinson fusion tires.
Once I changed to Conti tubeless I was able to seal used tires using a compressor..
That's interesting, because my assumption is that the opposite would be more likely, that a used tire would easier to mount back on its same rim than a new one. That said, I was just reading on the Rene Herse site about how their "supple" tires can be trickier to mount than stiffer ones, so perhaps the used ones lose stiffness with use?
pbass is offline  
Old 03-27-22, 06:48 PM
  #22  
Bmach
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,082
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 439 Post(s)
Liked 263 Times in 161 Posts
Not sure if I missed it but did you try some soapy water on the rim?
Bmach is offline  
Old 03-27-22, 07:50 PM
  #23  
rosefarts
With a mighty wind
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 2,555
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1073 Post(s)
Liked 841 Times in 475 Posts
Here is your solution.

FattyStripper Tubeless Fat Bike Solution and SkinnyStripper Tubeless CX & DH Solution <link rel="image_src" href="https://fattystripper.com/media/FattyStripper_Logo_320.jpg" / ><link rel="image_src" href="https://fattystripper.com/media/FattyStripper_L
rosefarts is offline  
Old 03-28-22, 12:54 AM
  #24  
yannisg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NW Peloponnese, Greece
Posts: 546
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 112 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 25 Times in 22 Posts
Originally Posted by pbass
That's interesting, because my assumption is that the opposite would be more likely, that a used tire would easier to mount back on its same rim than a new one. That said, I was just reading on the Rene Herse site about how their "supple" tires can be trickier to mount than stiffer ones, so perhaps the used ones lose stiffness with use?
True, used tires are always easier to mount.
However, I was not talking about mounting the tire on the rim, which was not a problem, but sealing the used tire to the rim.
I changed all my valves to core removable valves so I wouldn't have to break the seal to add sealant. Breaking the seal either to add sealant or cleaning the tire-rim was a major problem for me with the combination mentioned.
It was even a reason to abandon the tubeless road tires altogether apart from the experienced rim corrosion,but that's another story.
I did not have this problem with mountain bike tires with the much large volume.
yannisg is offline  
Old 03-28-22, 06:00 AM
  #25  
sloppy12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 478
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 166 Post(s)
Liked 252 Times in 147 Posts
Originally Posted by pbass
Well, we have a happy ending. I took it to another LBS and after a few tries w the compressor the mechanic theorized that maybe the tape had gotten compromised when I pulled the bead off, and also noticed my valve wasn't seated ideally in the rim(which might have been from my frustrated tightening it w pliers). He re-taped the rim and put in a new valve and voila! It popped right into place with barely a squirt from the compressor. Total relief and something new for my noobie education.
glad you got it sorted. I was gonna say I have the I23's on my sutra and they seem to set up super easy like one of the easier wheels I have done.
sloppy12 is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.