Eric F 

I figured as much. Thanks.

billew

This is not on roads so the FHA has nothing to do with it. This is a MUP trail sign and they are state controlled, I ride on trails with horses and the best thing is a bell rung as soon as you think the rider will hear it. The worst thing to do is sneak up on a horse, you are being a predator and it's pretty stupid, also riding up and shouting "On your left!". As far as approaching from behind, the responsibility is on you to inform the rider as far away as possible, not hope the rider happens to be looking backward and sees you.

billew

I ride those trails also, We use a bell rung as far away as the rider will hear it, the rider will decide if they want to stop or move over and wave you through. Most all riders have thanked us for ringing the bell it works for dogs too.

RCMoeur 

You're correct that the Federal Housing Administration doesn't get involved with shared-use paths all that much.

As for the MUTCD's authority over signing such paths, it's stated in the second paragraph of the entire document:

Standard:
The Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD) is incorporated by reference in 23 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR), Part 655, Subpart F and shall be recognized as the national standard for all traffic control devices installed on any street, highway, bikeway, or private road open to public travel (see definition in Section 1A.13) in accordance with 23 U.S.C. 109(d) and 402(a).

That being said, FHWA typically doesn't get into the weeds on these items, or have squads of enforcement personnel ripping down offending or nonconforming signs. Sometimes there's a strongly worded letter from a FHWA Division Office to an agency for more-egregious transgressions. Federal funding can conceivably be withheld from projects or facilities with noncompliant signs, but this raises political implications. Recently there have been carrot-and-stick moves to persuade State DOTs to actively enforce MUTCD provisions on FHWA's behalf, including removal of nonconforming signs, but this is still in very early stages of implementation and enthusiasm. So it's very unlikely these signs are at imminent risk.

MUTCD compliance can be a factor in litigation, with noncompliance often considered negligence per se. By my assessment, a sign like this may not be a litigation risk (whether present or absent), unless someone stopped in the middle of the path to read it and another person crashed into them and was injured. Haven't heard of that happening much on bikeways, even with absurdly complicated signs.

"Bikeway" is defined in Section 1A.13 of the MUTCD as: "a generic term for any road, street, path, or way that in some manner is specifically designated for bicycle travel, regardless of whether such facilities are designated for the exclusive use of bicycles or are to be shared with other transportation modes." This could conceivably encompass everything down to rocky tangled singletrack, but in practicality is only applied to paths that are specifically engineered and constructed by a public agency and intended for bicycle use, whether paved or unpaved.

SPlKE 

The horses on the MUP I ride poo and pee all over the MUP.

The horse riders continue plodding along, two abreast leaving almost no room for passing... without a care in the world about the filthy stinking fly-infested poop mess and piss puddles they leave behind.

veganbikes

Those are usually still on top of the horses, I believe they call themselves "humans"

Roughstuff

I brake for insects.

DangerousDanR

Blucher!

RB1-luvr

ya, I do the same. I ask the riders if it's ok to pass, and they are always very kind. I usually ride by at a walking pace.

indyfabz

I would just assume not see photos of people's willies.

indyfabz

Horses? HTFU. I had to yielded to this guy:

livedarklions

I've asked riders what they want me to do, and that is exactly what they recommend. Generally, I don't think people bring nervous horses to MUPS, but I always err on the side of caution as that's an awful lot of mammal to deal with if something goes sideways.

Not sure what the point of this thread was, what cyclist would be stupid enough to want to play chicken with a horse?

billew

The FHA only concerns infra attached to roadways, it doesn't have jurisdiction on offroad trails usually designated as "Linear Parks" Since we are talking about dirt trails with horses on them the only MUTCD compliance issues are at road grade crossings where crosswalks are involved. You are wrong and have a hard time admitting it.

RCMoeur 

You're certainly not the first person to tell me I'm wrong, and you likely won't be the last. But given my 25+ years of direct professional involvement at the national level in traffic control device review and approval, I think I'll stick with my assessment. Especially remembering the meetings of the NCUTCD Bicycle Technical Committee I chaired where the scope of MUTCD applicability to the full range of US bikeways was discussed - which doesn't quite match up with your determination.

livedarklions

Actually, the path where I encounter horses is both paved and interstate as it crosses the NH-MA state line.

But pretty sure you're the guy with butt-legumes here.

50PlusCycling

Horses and horse-drawn conveyances were given the right-of-way and other privileges more than a century ago. These were done in an effort to help support the horse industry, which was in steep decline as people switched to motor vehicles. In addition to having the right-of-way, tax breaks were also given to the horse industry, which also exist to this day. If your income is high enough, you can own horses virtually for free.

Arthur Peabody

They have to be bagged on my local MUP. I never see their leavings. Then again, there's dirt trail alternatives nearby. I did get behind a group of pack animals while hiking in the Sierras, which was miserable. They pooped more going up hill.

Does a horse riding a bicycle have ultimate priority?

Korina

FIFY.

indyfabz

HTFU. Bears don't always "go" in the woods. Going to the Sun Road in Glacier National Park, 2017.

SPlKE 

Well, it's time we take on Big Horse and stand up for ourselves.

SPlKE 

Dammit. Gets me every time.

SPlKE 

And the corollary: what cyclist would be stupid enough to play horse with a chicken?

/deep thoughts

DirePenguin

I don’t trust any horse, any more. My son, who has some significant disability, was involved in therapeutic horseback riding for many years, starting when he was about four. Never had a problem with any of the gentle horses he’d ridden over the years, until we did.

I was sidewalking (helping to keep him centered on the saddle) and something spooked the horse. It kicked me sideways, catching me just above my knee, and sent me flying to land in a heap about 8ft. away! Horses really kick HARD! At about the same time, the horse bucked my son off and he landed on the ground beside the horse! Luckily, the only damage was a broken wrist but it could have been so much worse!

We haven’t ridden since. I just don’t trust them!

livedarklions

Kat12

Definitely elephants. There's more than one story out there of them stopping sugarcane trucks in Thailand.


Won't smile at other cyclists...


NEIGH!!

Or bark up anyone's junk... (I'm sorry but that was a terrible word choice considering the subject...)


Why? Sign didn't say...


I'd do it. Can chickens even throw a basketball? I'm bad at it but still better than chickens, I'm guessing. (Someone's going to dig up a video of a basketball-prodigy chicken, I know it.)