Warning N. CA East Bay Mtb'ers!
03-23-22, 01:25 PM
#51
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times
in
5,054 Posts
03-23-22, 01:32 PM
#52
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Northampton, MA
Posts: 1,909
Bikes: 36" Unicycle, winter knock-around hybrid bike
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 930 Post(s)
Liked 393 Times
in
282 Posts
Exactly. The goal of a legitimate regulation should be to entirely prevent the illicit behavior, with the result that no one is ever assessed the fine anyway. It's pretty hard to accidentally climb over a high fence.
Contrast something like NYC's "stipulated" fines program where commercial operators agree to just pay some percentage of parking tickets without challenging any of them. Such an illegitimate program exists to let things like parking in the bike lane simply be a cost of doing business.
Contrast something like NYC's "stipulated" fines program where commercial operators agree to just pay some percentage of parking tickets without challenging any of them. Such an illegitimate program exists to let things like parking in the bike lane simply be a cost of doing business.
03-23-22, 08:58 PM
#53
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,760
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1109 Post(s)
Liked 1,200 Times
in
760 Posts
Because cyclists and hikers both f up trails by cutting switchbacks and other things that decrease effectiveness of erosion control tactics. They also spread out trails around inconvenient terrain. In general, left to their own devices, harm the land.
My guess is that this particular incident in the op is the result of a long standing problem by users who think they know better than land managers and the hefty fine reflects the ongoing problem and ramped up enforcement that is necessary.
My guess is that this particular incident in the op is the result of a long standing problem by users who think they know better than land managers and the hefty fine reflects the ongoing problem and ramped up enforcement that is necessary.
Likes For Camilo:
03-24-22, 06:03 AM
#54
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times
in
5,054 Posts
Because cyclists and hikers both f up trails by cutting switchbacks and other things that decrease effectiveness of erosion control tactics. They also spread out trails around inconvenient terrain. In general, left to their own devices, harm the land.
My guess is that this particular incident in the op is the result of a long standing problem by users who think they know better than land managers and the hefty fine reflects the ongoing problem and ramped up enforcement that is necessary.
My guess is that this particular incident in the op is the result of a long standing problem by users who think they know better than land managers and the hefty fine reflects the ongoing problem and ramped up enforcement that is necessary.
The existence of a trail is, pretty much by definition, a disruption of the soil. It's erosion all by itself and erosion tends to spread, even without further human intervention. You point out also the domino effect, one trail leads to another and another after that.
Likes For livedarklions:
03-24-22, 08:53 AM
#55
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,220
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18403 Post(s)
Liked 15,495 Times
in
7,317 Posts
When I did my first backcountry backpack trip (7-days in Glacier N.P.) not cutting switchbacks was one thing I learned early on from my guide. We encountered a few good-sized groups out for day hikes doing it. He even spoke up to one group about it as the passed us going in the other direction.
Likes For indyfabz:
03-25-22, 08:26 PM
#56
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 757
Bikes: 1969 Peugeot PX10, 1992 Della Santa, Linus Roadster 8, Biria 700C ST-8
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 791 Post(s)
Liked 504 Times
in
320 Posts
And your point is? Getting back to the original post he got caught hoisting his bike over a fence to access an illegally created trail in a restricted watershed. I think $600 was too low. Should cost at least $1000 for the obvious infraction and not understanding about laws.
Likes For Joe Bikerider:
03-27-22, 03:14 AM
#57
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times
in
5,054 Posts
And your point is? Getting back to the original post he got caught hoisting his bike over a fence to access an illegally created trail in a restricted watershed. I think $600 was too low. Should cost at least $1000 for the obvious infraction and not understanding about laws.
That's what I find so ironic about all these people whining about the size of the fine--obviously, if the fence isn't deterring them, the fine has got to be high if there's any chance for it to deter.
Likes For livedarklions:
04-22-22, 04:14 PM
#58
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Napa Valley, CA
Posts: 908
Bikes: Wife says I have too many :-)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 327 Post(s)
Liked 250 Times
in
158 Posts
And your point is? Getting back to the original post he got caught hoisting his bike over a fence to access an illegally created trail in a restricted watershed. I think $600 was too low. Should cost at least $1000 for the obvious infraction and not understanding about laws.
Exactly.......... And he is complaining about getting caught. This is hilarious !
04-22-22, 05:15 PM
#59
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
Posts: 9,835
Bikes: Kirk Custom JK Special, '84 Team Miyata,(dura ace old school) 80?? SR Semi-Pro 600 Arabesque
Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2337 Post(s)
Liked 2,813 Times
in
1,536 Posts
Just like all other cash fines, it's fundamentally unfair. While $600 might be quite a deterrent and/or penalty for most, for many it wouldn't have any effect. It doesn't seem right how one person should lose a week's pay, while the next looses one day's. This holds especially true for speeding. Wealthy people with sports cars treat some of the best cycling roads as race tracks, essentially with impunity, because whatever fine is a joke to them.
__________________
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)
Likes For squirtdad:
04-23-22, 08:40 PM
#60
Full Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 313
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 420 Post(s)
Liked 379 Times
in
279 Posts
And, of course, in the world {full} of "things that are unfair because people with a lot of money don't have as much of a burden as people who don't have a lot of money"... I would say this is pretty far down the list in importance.
