Bitten by Tubeless
01-19-20, 07:26 PM
#151
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Thank you for the education on this new technology. I am not ready yet to adopt it because I would like to try changing a tubeless tire and compare it with the effort of changing an inner tube. As for the tape, how do mag wheels which have no spokes and need no tape to seal spoke nuts compare with spoke wheels for light weight? For road use I never bothered to compare weights because the difference is so small and carbon wheels and frames for the competitive racers can fail catastrophically if they are not perfect. Also, I prefer neon green tires and I don't think you can get them tubeless.
I don’t even know where to start.
01-19-20, 07:57 PM
#152
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New to tubeless myself and felt this post needed re-posting. What I like about it, is that it meets tubeless on it's own terms.
Like the OP of the thread, I had always been thinking about tubeless repair in terms of being able to immediately revert back to using tubes. But now I think that dim 's philosophy makes more sense. Namely: take along the equipment to keep running tubeless as tubeless. I would actually go so far as to argue that a spare innertube might be superfluous too since: 1) tubeless tires will accommodate small embeded sharp bits without you even being aware, but slapping a tube in there will make you aware! and 2) if 1 or 2 plugs can't fix the hole/gash in the tyre, your tyre is probalby not going to be happy with a tube either...so maybe better to use the added space for an additional CO2 cartridge (or two).
Like the OP of the thread, I had always been thinking about tubeless repair in terms of being able to immediately revert back to using tubes. But now I think that dim 's philosophy makes more sense. Namely: take along the equipment to keep running tubeless as tubeless. I would actually go so far as to argue that a spare innertube might be superfluous too since: 1) tubeless tires will accommodate small embeded sharp bits without you even being aware, but slapping a tube in there will make you aware! and 2) if 1 or 2 plugs can't fix the hole/gash in the tyre, your tyre is probalby not going to be happy with a tube either...so maybe better to use the added space for an additional CO2 cartridge (or two).
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01-20-20, 08:31 AM
#153
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Thank you for the education on this new technology. I am not ready yet to adopt it because I would like to try changing a tubeless tire and compare it with the effort of changing an inner tube. As for the tape, how do mag wheels which have no spokes and need no tape to seal spoke nuts compare with spoke wheels for light weight? For road use I never bothered to compare weights because the difference is so small and carbon wheels and frames for the competitive racers can fail catastrophically if they are not perfect. Also, I prefer neon green tires and I don't think you can get them tubeless.
01-21-20, 07:59 PM
#155
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Finally had a puncture on my 28C Gavia's the other day. Stan's standard sealant got it fine. Lost about 4psi, and the tyres have been airtight since.
Been waiting for a chance to try my dynaplugs lol
Been waiting for a chance to try my dynaplugs lol
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06-03-20, 10:23 AM
#156
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Okay, so I'm in the road forum, but this seems to be the most recent, and active thread.
- Been riding tubeless tires on my cross bike for years, no issues at all. Would like to pick up a "plug kit" to start carrying with me. There are DOZENS out there, any recommendations? I use Stans rim strips and latex, so leaning towards them. But I like my Lezyne lights and their plug kits look nice... and tons of other makers/options. Also, not sure how Dynaplug gets away with $50+ when others are $20 and look fine. I've rarely punctured and always had it seal up, so this is more insurance than anything. (I carry a pump and tube).
- Current set up is Stans rim strips with built-in valves, no tape, Panaracer GravelKing tires, Mavic Ksyrium wheels. No issues. Stans was one of the few in the tubeless game when I got started a few years back. Never had issues with the rim strips. Are there pros/cons to rim strips w/valves VS. just valves and rim tape?
Thanks! I'm sure this has been discussed, but I'm in the dark on a lot of tubeless stuff, so just thought I'd ask. Thanks.
- Been riding tubeless tires on my cross bike for years, no issues at all. Would like to pick up a "plug kit" to start carrying with me. There are DOZENS out there, any recommendations? I use Stans rim strips and latex, so leaning towards them. But I like my Lezyne lights and their plug kits look nice... and tons of other makers/options. Also, not sure how Dynaplug gets away with $50+ when others are $20 and look fine. I've rarely punctured and always had it seal up, so this is more insurance than anything. (I carry a pump and tube).
- Current set up is Stans rim strips with built-in valves, no tape, Panaracer GravelKing tires, Mavic Ksyrium wheels. No issues. Stans was one of the few in the tubeless game when I got started a few years back. Never had issues with the rim strips. Are there pros/cons to rim strips w/valves VS. just valves and rim tape?
Thanks! I'm sure this has been discussed, but I'm in the dark on a lot of tubeless stuff, so just thought I'd ask. Thanks.
06-03-20, 10:35 AM
#157
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Okay, so I'm in the road forum, but this seems to be the most recent, and active thread.
- Been riding tubeless tires on my cross bike for years, no issues at all. Would like to pick up a "plug kit" to start carrying with me. There are DOZENS out there, any recommendations? I use Stans rim strips and latex, so leaning towards them. But I like my Lezyne lights and their plug kits look nice... and tons of other makers/options. Also, not sure how Dynaplug gets away with $50+ when others are $20 and look fine. I've rarely punctured and always had it seal up, so this is more insurance than anything. (I carry a pump and tube).
- Current set up is Stans rim strips with built-in valves, no tape, Panaracer GravelKing tires, Mavic Ksyrium wheels. No issues. Stans was one of the few in the tubeless game when I got started a few years back. Never had issues with the rim strips. Are there pros/cons to rim strips w/valves VS. just valves and rim tape?
Thanks! I'm sure this has been discussed, but I'm in the dark on a lot of tubeless stuff, so just thought I'd ask. Thanks.
- Been riding tubeless tires on my cross bike for years, no issues at all. Would like to pick up a "plug kit" to start carrying with me. There are DOZENS out there, any recommendations? I use Stans rim strips and latex, so leaning towards them. But I like my Lezyne lights and their plug kits look nice... and tons of other makers/options. Also, not sure how Dynaplug gets away with $50+ when others are $20 and look fine. I've rarely punctured and always had it seal up, so this is more insurance than anything. (I carry a pump and tube).
- Current set up is Stans rim strips with built-in valves, no tape, Panaracer GravelKing tires, Mavic Ksyrium wheels. No issues. Stans was one of the few in the tubeless game when I got started a few years back. Never had issues with the rim strips. Are there pros/cons to rim strips w/valves VS. just valves and rim tape?
Thanks! I'm sure this has been discussed, but I'm in the dark on a lot of tubeless stuff, so just thought I'd ask. Thanks.
Just to continue the sharing of experiences -
I took a pretty good cut to the front tire today and it just wouldn't seal. Much like my only other Goldilocks puncture, it was about 1/4". I tried out a bacon strip and that got me a couple miles, but again, the cut was just a little too big and it wanted to push out, much like the last time. Rather than resort to a tube, I gave it one more try - this time I threaded the bacon strip on the insertion tool and then I tied it in a knot before jamming it in the cut, getting the knot inside of the carcass. That did the trick and it held pressure the rest of the way home, about 10 miles or so. I'm undecided as to whether I'll keep it in there and see how it fares or if I'll pull the tire and internally patch. I don't have the time to ride for a couple days, anyway, so I have time to ponder and feel it out.
But yeah - if you take a good cut and your bacon strip isn't holding, try tying it in a knot before inserting it. Frankly, I was pretty set on trying out the plugs with the metal barbs, but I'm not sure that one would have fared any better with this size of cut and there's certainly no option to tie it in a knot.
I took a pretty good cut to the front tire today and it just wouldn't seal. Much like my only other Goldilocks puncture, it was about 1/4". I tried out a bacon strip and that got me a couple miles, but again, the cut was just a little too big and it wanted to push out, much like the last time. Rather than resort to a tube, I gave it one more try - this time I threaded the bacon strip on the insertion tool and then I tied it in a knot before jamming it in the cut, getting the knot inside of the carcass. That did the trick and it held pressure the rest of the way home, about 10 miles or so. I'm undecided as to whether I'll keep it in there and see how it fares or if I'll pull the tire and internally patch. I don't have the time to ride for a couple days, anyway, so I have time to ponder and feel it out.
But yeah - if you take a good cut and your bacon strip isn't holding, try tying it in a knot before inserting it. Frankly, I was pretty set on trying out the plugs with the metal barbs, but I'm not sure that one would have fared any better with this size of cut and there's certainly no option to tie it in a knot.
06-03-20, 10:59 AM
#158
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This is my experience posted in a more recent and, IMO, comprehensive thread - https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycl...eless-not.html
06-04-20, 05:46 AM
#159
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Okay, so I'm in the road forum, but this seems to be the most recent, and active thread.
- Been riding tubeless tires on my cross bike for years, no issues at all. Would like to pick up a "plug kit" to start carrying with me. There are DOZENS out there, any recommendations? I use Stans rim strips and latex, so leaning towards them. But I like my Lezyne lights and their plug kits look nice... and tons of other makers/options. Also, not sure how Dynaplug gets away with $50+ when others are $20 and look fine. I've rarely punctured and always had it seal up, so this is more insurance than anything. (I carry a pump and tube).
- Current set up is Stans rim strips with built-in valves, no tape, Panaracer GravelKing tires, Mavic Ksyrium wheels. No issues. Stans was one of the few in the tubeless game when I got started a few years back. Never had issues with the rim strips. Are there pros/cons to rim strips w/valves VS. just valves and rim tape?
Thanks! I'm sure this has been discussed, but I'm in the dark on a lot of tubeless stuff, so just thought I'd ask. Thanks.
- Been riding tubeless tires on my cross bike for years, no issues at all. Would like to pick up a "plug kit" to start carrying with me. There are DOZENS out there, any recommendations? I use Stans rim strips and latex, so leaning towards them. But I like my Lezyne lights and their plug kits look nice... and tons of other makers/options. Also, not sure how Dynaplug gets away with $50+ when others are $20 and look fine. I've rarely punctured and always had it seal up, so this is more insurance than anything. (I carry a pump and tube).
- Current set up is Stans rim strips with built-in valves, no tape, Panaracer GravelKing tires, Mavic Ksyrium wheels. No issues. Stans was one of the few in the tubeless game when I got started a few years back. Never had issues with the rim strips. Are there pros/cons to rim strips w/valves VS. just valves and rim tape?
Thanks! I'm sure this has been discussed, but I'm in the dark on a lot of tubeless stuff, so just thought I'd ask. Thanks.
Lately I’ve started carrying the new Stans plugger but I haven’t had a chance to use it. I like the shape and configuration of the laser cut tail on the plug and thought that would work pretty well but I haven’t had a chance to use it ever.
06-04-20, 10:48 AM
#160
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Thanks for the bump - new tire and nothing but problems. Really a massive PITA when all I want to do is grab the bike and go riding.
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06-04-20, 11:16 AM
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I know, right. That or ride it more. *shrug*
Will take the money all day to set that up for others but will always prefer riding with a tube for myself.
Will take the money all day to set that up for others but will always prefer riding with a tube for myself.
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06-04-20, 11:20 AM
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06-04-20, 11:25 AM
#164
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Seriously... I've been out on it once since this originally happened and that was 6 months ago based on the thread start date. That was like a week or two ago but I walked by the bike today and put my thumb on the rear and it's super soft again.
Better than before the ride where it wouldn't even stay sealed for more than a day or two. What a PITA. My bikes belong on the shelf. they are not to be ridden.
Better than before the ride where it wouldn't even stay sealed for more than a day or two. What a PITA. My bikes belong on the shelf. they are not to be ridden.
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06-04-20, 11:29 AM
#166
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I have a lot of riders on the team at this point who are choosing not training, riding for fun, and beer at this point. I honestly don't think that is a bad thing.
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06-04-20, 11:40 AM
#167
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With how busy all our shops are nowadays I'm amazed if anyone in the industry can still get any rides in.
I have a lot of riders on the team at this point who are choosing not training, riding for fun, and beer at this point. I honestly don't think that is a bad thing.
I have a lot of riders on the team at this point who are choosing not training, riding for fun, and beer at this point. I honestly don't think that is a bad thing.
06-04-20, 11:46 AM
#168
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Seriously... I've been out on it once since this originally happened and that was 6 months ago based on the thread start date. That was like a week or two ago but I walked by the bike today and put my thumb on the rear and it's super soft again.
Better than before the ride where it wouldn't even stay sealed for more than a day or two. What a PITA. My bikes belong on the shelf. they are not to be ridden.
Better than before the ride where it wouldn't even stay sealed for more than a day or two. What a PITA. My bikes belong on the shelf. they are not to be ridden.
06-04-20, 01:32 PM
#169
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Many of you know I don't exactly have a love affair with tubeless. That said I do try and embrace anything that seems to be gaining acceptance just so I can speak intelligently about it. I have also learned to change my mind here and there.
This being said I have been running tubeless on a setup of mine for a few years now (3-4 maybe). I have 2 seasons on a set of maxxis Ramblers in a 40mm width on my cross/gravel bike ( Van Dessel Full Tilt Boogie - Amazing bike ). I have ridden these just about everywhere. I haven't had any flats. That's great right? I mean that must be because of the tubeless right? Well - It's very rare that I would have any flats on any setup. 1 flat in the last 6,000 or so miles. So I give little to no credit to the tubeless on that one as I have the same results with tubes and ride tubes on the road - with rare flats.
With the unseasonably warm weather we are having the Chicagoland area. I decided to go for a longer ride yesterday with a couple of riders form the team. Easy Chicagoland path ride on gravel bikes. Sure enough at the halfway mark on an out and back (of course) I rode over something that just decimated the tread on the tire. Cut clean through and left a 3/4" or so cut on the near center of the tread. Dumped the sealant everywhere and was flat in seconds.
So what. Flats happen. Even tubeless can't stop a flat from something like that.
Spending the next 5 minutes pulling out the valve, wrestling the tire, dumping the remaining sealant, having sealant over everything including my hands, having it freeze into orange seal snot boogers on the CO2 when I inflated the tube, having my buddy complain about how his hands were swelling and itching because he grabbed my wheel and is allergic to latex all had me thinking. Every tubeless flat I have been around and helped others fix has been a total PITA that would have taken less time if it wasn't tubeless.
So....
1. Re-confirms for me that if you are not currently riding in a manner or a place that gets a LOT of flats now then IMHO it really is not worth switching to tubeless.
2. Reminded me that I am glad I always ride with a flat kit even though I am on tubeless as tubeless isn't any sort of real assurance that you won't experience a total flat.
3. Confirmed that I will still have flats at the same rate as I did with tubes but they will take longer to change and be messier.
**** I get it. Your anecdotes are just as important and valid as mine. I understand tubeless has completely changed your entire cycling experience for the better. I am laying odds that the word Goathead will be used within the first 2 or 3 responses. All I am saying, for the 200th time, is that tubeless is still not a complete or best solution for all riders in all circumstances. In fact I still maintain it is still an inferior technology for the vast majority of riders for their uses and conditions. This is while also saying it is the supreme and best technology for every rider in certain terrain conditions.
Sure :-) Or the even better fallacy. - paraphrasing - "I have had several punctures seal, enabling me to limp home at 3 bar" ... Sure, the more holes* (that self plug) the better ... err?! ... except of course its better to not get any punctures in the first place .. How about a tyre with a Kevlar belt?
06-04-20, 01:39 PM
#170
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"I haven't had any flats. That's great right? I mean that must be because of the tubeless right? "
Sure :-) Or the even better fallacy. - paraphrasing - "I have had several punctures seal, enabling me to limp home at 3 bar" ... Sure, the more holes* (that self plug) the better ... err?! ... except of course its better to not get any punctures in the first place .. How about a tyre with a Kevlar belt?
Sure :-) Or the even better fallacy. - paraphrasing - "I have had several punctures seal, enabling me to limp home at 3 bar" ... Sure, the more holes* (that self plug) the better ... err?! ... except of course its better to not get any punctures in the first place .. How about a tyre with a Kevlar belt?
No thanks. They ride like crap.
03-08-21, 02:22 PM
#171
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Yet again....
Yesterday I go out for my first ride of the season outdoors. Different bike than the one that caused the start of this thread. Different wheels, tires, etc.
I hard corner one section of the ride then a while later start noticing a rumbling. Tubeless once again let me down. *womp womp*. I put CO2 in and keep going but that isn't cutting it. Finally decide to pull over and put a tube in it. Open it up and the inside is bone dry..... looks like I am the one that let tubeless down instead of it letting me down.
So take the time to check your sealant levels and top them off. You know....like the same way you have to check those innertubes 2-4 times a year to make sure they're still....innertubes.
I couldn't help but think of this thread when it happened. I also know I am going to get a ton of crap about how I didn't add sealant since the fall. Still can't help but point out that no one got a flat on the ride except me and most were riding tubes. I also had no problem once I put a tube in it of course. Also - feel the need to point out how all the other bikes I can just air up and ride. Big time saver.
also had a customer bring this in the day before. ENVE go boom. I believe the official line from ENVE will be that the customer didn't use the ENVE specific tubeless kit. Regardless this allowed the lower rim chamber to pressurize and go boom. Another shop was airing it up when it went. I am so glad it wasn't me.
Yesterday I go out for my first ride of the season outdoors. Different bike than the one that caused the start of this thread. Different wheels, tires, etc.
I hard corner one section of the ride then a while later start noticing a rumbling. Tubeless once again let me down. *womp womp*. I put CO2 in and keep going but that isn't cutting it. Finally decide to pull over and put a tube in it. Open it up and the inside is bone dry..... looks like I am the one that let tubeless down instead of it letting me down.
So take the time to check your sealant levels and top them off. You know....like the same way you have to check those innertubes 2-4 times a year to make sure they're still....innertubes.
I couldn't help but think of this thread when it happened. I also know I am going to get a ton of crap about how I didn't add sealant since the fall. Still can't help but point out that no one got a flat on the ride except me and most were riding tubes. I also had no problem once I put a tube in it of course. Also - feel the need to point out how all the other bikes I can just air up and ride. Big time saver.
also had a customer bring this in the day before. ENVE go boom. I believe the official line from ENVE will be that the customer didn't use the ENVE specific tubeless kit. Regardless this allowed the lower rim chamber to pressurize and go boom. Another shop was airing it up when it went. I am so glad it wasn't me.
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03-08-21, 02:47 PM
#172
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Yeah, I only recommend tubeless to people if they're aware that they need to check their sealant regularly. Bad Rob. 
That ENVE explosion would suck so bad. Did they have those special stems/gaskets? (not that I think that the product should have been designed in a way in which they'd be necessary)
Also, protip that I'd absentmindedly forgotten about when I did some maintenance over the weekend: if you pull your tires off, don't peel the sealant off of the inside of the tire - you're probably re-opening a few punctures and it might make life difficult. I got impatient trying to simultaneously seat and seal, and I had new tires staring me in the face, so I decided, ah, **** it - I'm rolling the new rubber.
That ENVE explosion would suck so bad. Did they have those special stems/gaskets? (not that I think that the product should have been designed in a way in which they'd be necessary)
Also, protip that I'd absentmindedly forgotten about when I did some maintenance over the weekend: if you pull your tires off, don't peel the sealant off of the inside of the tire - you're probably re-opening a few punctures and it might make life difficult. I got impatient trying to simultaneously seat and seal, and I had new tires staring me in the face, so I decided, ah, **** it - I'm rolling the new rubber.
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03-08-21, 02:56 PM
#173
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I've ridden off without sealant also, and while the tires topped off nicely it didn't take long until they were completely flat. Once dry, the bead didn't hold air worth squat.
Ouch on that rim... I assume the shop will assume responsibility. I'll have to make it a habit when mounting a new tire to only inflate until the tire "grabs" and starts holding air, then stop and wiggle the valve a bit to make sure that no air exits around it. That's not a cheap rim!
Ouch on that rim... I assume the shop will assume responsibility. I'll have to make it a habit when mounting a new tire to only inflate until the tire "grabs" and starts holding air, then stop and wiggle the valve a bit to make sure that no air exits around it. That's not a cheap rim!
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03-08-21, 03:02 PM
#174
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Is there no vent hole for water or is it just not big enough to depressurise the rim at a sufficient rate? Every rim I own have it, but of course they are all alloy (and tubed).
03-08-21, 03:04 PM
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Yeah, I only recommend tubeless to people if they're aware that they need to check their sealant regularly. Bad Rob.
That ENVE explosion would suck so bad. Did they have those special stems/gaskets? (not that I think that the product should have been designed in a way in which they'd be necessary)
Also, protip that I'd absentmindedly forgotten about when I did some maintenance over the weekend: if you pull your tires off, don't peel the sealant off of the inside of the tire - you're probably re-opening a few punctures and it might make life difficult. I got impatient trying to simultaneously seat and seal, and I had new tires staring me in the face, so I decided, ah, **** it - I'm rolling the new rubber.
That ENVE explosion would suck so bad. Did they have those special stems/gaskets? (not that I think that the product should have been designed in a way in which they'd be necessary)
Also, protip that I'd absentmindedly forgotten about when I did some maintenance over the weekend: if you pull your tires off, don't peel the sealant off of the inside of the tire - you're probably re-opening a few punctures and it might make life difficult. I got impatient trying to simultaneously seat and seal, and I had new tires staring me in the face, so I decided, ah, **** it - I'm rolling the new rubber.
Also - pulling the latex off the inside of the tire is soothing though. Kind of like peeling skin after a bad sunburn.
When I was putting the tube in I found this little puck of dried up sealant. "Don't remove it Rob....don't remove it" as my hand grabbed a tire lever and started scraping it out. Always hard when having a hard time re seating a used tire and you have new ones sitting there. "Weeelllll I got enough out of those old tires. New tires rock anyway."
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PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels
