Originally Posted by Joe Bikerider

I am not a mt biker but rather a long time hiker in the EAST bay. I do ride my bike on various paved trails around the area. Reading the OP sounds very much like Trumpian nonsense. I don’t buy any of it. It’s the whole paranoid message from his supporters. Like “bikers are being discriminated against” thing.

I am sorry “not much” that bikers have not gotten everything that they want. But having to jump out of the way to avoid being hit by downhill riders in the local parks has made me not a supporter. And the local bike shop showing pictures in their advertising of obviously illegal riding doesn’t help either.

i think these kind of riders are similar to people with off leash dogs. They don’t have any idea about how the rest of the world views them.

EOM.

Originally Posted by livedarklions

I think this brings up another obvious point that hasn't been discussed. There's no way to open up this land to cycling usage without opening it up for hiking, running, and other non-motorized recreational purposes. That's a lot of people going on this land that currently are prohibited from doing so. OP wants to pretend that they're in a good position to judge the impact of that on HABITAT (the E. coli thing was a red herring from the start) which EBMUD is currently the custodian of.

Whether there's crime in a city or not, enforcement of environmental protection on public land is a good thing. It's friggin' California, fer cryin' out loud, it's not like there's a shortage of legal recreational areas.

Originally Posted by Paul Barnard

Just curious. In what way would cycling pose a threat to the watershed?

Originally Posted by Paul Barnard

Just curious. In what way would cycling pose a threat to the watershed?

Originally Posted by Polaris OBark

And of course there is the simple issue of erosion control.

Originally Posted by livedarklions

increased fire danger

Originally Posted by livedarklions

EBMUD is also charged with protecting habitat. People cutting paths and hanging around tends to screw with things in that regard. Keep in mind that watershed and habitat are for many species pretty much synonymous.

Originally Posted by Paul Barnard

I mountain bike in Crested Butte CO nearly every summer. It is a very popular mountain bike destination. Some of the most popular trails go right through their watershed. In fact, it's not at all uncommon that MTB trails run through watersheds. Obviously not all watersheds are the same. I wondered if there was anything specific to the subject watershed that would be threatened by MTB trails and activity.

Originally Posted by mschwett

lots of possibilities, best studied by hydrologists, environmental scientists, etc. but the first question would be what kind/density of human usage are we talking about?

population within 50 mile radius of crested butte, co: 56,956
population within 50 mile radius of oakland, ca: 7,954,874

so, around 140 times as many people. if you open up a trail, you'll likely get 99% of the people using it carefully and respectfully, not going off trail, not starting fires, discarding plastic or beer bottle or used condoms, not grinding their tires against tree roots and running over snakes and ****ting in the trees. but 1% of 10 people a day is one incident every 10 days. 1% of 1,400 people a day is 14 ****ed up things happening every day. one of those things will probably be a fire.

of course it's not that simple, along with 140 times as many people there are more recreation opportunities and destinations, but an interesting thing about the bay area (and other western metros) is how very close the high density areas are to watersheds, national parks, green belts, agricultural land, etc. i regularly ride to three different major watersheds, serving millions of people, in less than an hour from my office or home in downtown san francisco.

Originally Posted by Paul Barnard

I suspected that the anticipated use was high based on the population density. Is this one different from the other three watersheds you ride because of how close it is to the population center?

Originally Posted by rydabent

A $600 fine is abusive big government pure and simple.

This make a good case for not having a valid ID on you when you ride.

Originally Posted by curbtender

Discussed this with some friends that ride the area. This is a known spot for enforcement. Yes, some people get paid to make people follow the rules. The amount of the fine is probably set so high to spank the more affluent. If the offender has issues with paying then they should go before a judge to look for a reduction.

Originally Posted by Comfort is King

Just like all other cash fines, it's fundamentally unfair. While $600 might be quite a deterrent and/or penalty for most, for many it wouldn't have any effect. It doesn't seem right how one person should lose a week's pay, while the next looses one day's. This holds especially true for speeding. Wealthy people with sports cars treat some of the best cycling roads as race tracks, essentially with impunity, because whatever fine is a joke to them.

Originally Posted by LV2TNDM

Just heard that MAJOR illegal riding enforcement is happening on East Bay Municipal Utility District land in Oakland/Moraga. It concerns the illegal trail that drops off East Ridge Trail in Redwood Regional Park, into EBMUD and to Pinehurst Rd.

The rider in question had just lifted his bike over the barbed wire fence at the bottom when a cop emerged from behind a tree and cited him. $600!!!! First offense. Cop said a second offense means arrest, going to jail, charged with a misdemeanor, a higher fine and confiscation of your bike. Not sure if this means seizure.

Anyway, we need to OVERWHELM the EBRPD and EBMUD phone lines with complaints about this COMPLETE overreach of authority. This is excessive law enforcement. And I admit, we shouldn't be building unsanctioned trails. It obviously hurts our cause. I get this. I've never done it and don't plan on it. I've criticized YouTubers who post videos of kids advocating for and using illegally-built trails. I've been in the game long enough to get this. BUT, I also understand the urge to do it and why it happens. We've been marginalized for long enough. And yes, I'll add that I also concede that this is a relatively "minor" first-world problem. Our country has so many other more important, crucial and high-priority causes to address. But that doesn't mean we can't do both, or more, right?

Hiding behind trees in the woods? $600 fines? Wow, talk about misappropriation of very limited law enforcement resources!

EBMUD:
https://www.ebmud.com/contact-us/
customerservice@ebmud.com or call 1-866-403-2683.

EBRPD:
https://www.ebparks.org/contact
Receptionist: General Questions - 1-888-327-2757
EBRPD Public Safety Headquarters: Non-Emergency Business (510) 881-1833
Email Form: https://www.ebparks.org/contact/form

And since when did the public give EBMUD exclusive right to treat their lands like a fiefdom? I'm disappointed that these "Protected Watershed" lands have been kept off limits from the public for ever. All while they let ranchers graze their livestock in the same places. Cows crapping in our watershed, but god forbid a hiker or worse, A BICYCLE!, tread on this rarefied earth!!! But lots of cows! (At least there used to be.) Not very protected, if you ask me!

Please also speak with your dollars! Join Bicycle Trails Council of the East Bay to help fund the effort to make the badly needed change to land access:
https://btceb.org/
(BTW, CAMTB is running a drawing right now, so if you follow BTCEB's link, you can use your membership dollars to enter their raffle to win a Canyon Specral 125 CF 7. Hey, wait, I'm gonna dilute my raffle ticket chances by promoting this! Too bad!!!)

Please call or email EBMUD and EBRPD this week to complain. Thanks.

Originally Posted by rydabent

this is your greedy b'crats in action. They want more of your money.

Originally Posted by livedarklions

bs.