sarals 

John, see you at Worlds!

carleton

Suggestions for pedals?

I have 2 sets of Shimano PD-6700 pedals and I just managed to ruin one of them beyond repair (long story). These are pretty old and I'm wondering what would you folks suggest if I tried a modern offering from Shimano or LOOK.



I was gonna consider the LOOK KEO 2 MAX, but it's my understanding that LOOK may be phasing that out, too.

Looking for something that I can attach straps to somehow.

Suggestions?

1incpa

I know it's not on your list, but I really like my speedplays. Never had a problem with them.
And there are a couple of ways that I've seen to attach straps.
PI

bitingduck

I'm still using SPD-R on the track. Eventually I'll have to change when I need new shoes...

carleton

I was on Speedplays (Zero and Zero Track Special) until a coach immediately put me on Shimano SPD-SL for the wider platform. The first day of standing starts and I immediately got what she was talking about. I've never considered Speedplay since.

Those are like rare unicorns.

carleton

I settled on Ultegra PD-R8000. Got them locally for what was probably close to cost.

We'll see how they work out.

Baby Puke

A few people over here are using the VP track pedals, which have a built in strap attachment point which actually makes sense. They'll be my choice when I finally move on from these DA 7400's.
VP-R73T

pierrej

Might need to modify them for straps, also I'd be interested to see how the new plate setup on those last

taras0000

I have about 5 sets of unicorns and about 12 pairs of cleats for them.

taras0000

I have about 5 sets of unicorns and about 12 pairs of cleats for them. I plan in getting custom shoes for when that time comes.

dunderhi

I would think there are many factors that go into selecting bar widths - rider size, racing style, rider position, race types, track conditions, bike geometry, and so on, but since narrow bars are all the rage I have one question: How narrow is narrow enough before it becomes too narrow? If 40cm bars are better than 46cm bars and 34 is better than 40, then wouldn't 28 be better than 34 and 22 better than 28? I've asked the similar questions about tire widths in the past, since 23 is better than 21 and 25 is better than 23, but people start getting nervous about the advantages of 28mm tires and appears 30mm tires are just wrong for some reason. I ride high quality 30mm tires on a road bike and they feel pretty quick.

Does anyone have any data on the measured performance benefits of narrow bars? At the UCI races at Ttown this year, it still looked like 38 & 40's were the standard. I raced 38cm bars 35 years ago, so I'm not sure how old school is old school. Today, I prefer the feel and control I get from 40cm bars, but I also think comfort matters, so what do I know?

dunderhi

I've been using the PD-R9000 for a couple years now. They can be strapped using zip ties. I use the limited float cleats(blue) on track and full float (yellow) on the road.

bitingduck

I bought a bunch of them (mostly pretty cheap) when they were still floating around. I have a shoebox full of them,

pierrej

All of those factors do count to a point, but for equal effort narrower should be faster. Riders focused on madisons, points, and scratch races will probably hover around the 38-40 mark however their positions are often not that far removed from an aggressive road bike. It should go without saying that you need to be in a more comfortable position for a 20km points race than you would for a keirin.

Because of the high speeds involved in sprint events aerodynamics become very important and the current evidence backed trends are showing much narrower bars with very little drop. I take it as the engineers are really trying to remove as much frontal area as possible. Sir Chris many years ago was said to have tried bars in the ~28cm region and I'm sure if you have enough control and confidence on the bike they should be faster. Wile I've not read this in full, there's plenty of info here on track aerodynamics:
https://ir.canterbury.ac.nz/bitstrea...s_fulltext.pdf

Most national sprint bikes have pretty narrow bars now too, and they're getting big olympic dollars to perform well
Avanti- 33cm, little drop
TeamGB- super secret
Look- 35cm
BT- 36cm (I've seen some secret bars that I'm assuming are their next evolution, never seen a logo or heard of a manufacturer, 33cm)
FES- practically no drop, unkown size
Dolan/Alpina- 33cm

Most are around the 33-35 so I'd imagine they've tested lower and maybe not found there to enough of an advantage

dunderhi

Thanks, I didn't realize that this is a sprint/keirin trend vice an enduro trend. The advice here seems to be applied to all races/racers at all skills levels. My concern as an enduro rider and now official is the diminishment of control with narrow bars, especially when one races on wavy concrete or asphalt surfaces. If we are only talking about national team sprinters at world class tracks, then they are certainly physically capable of racing in those positions safely.

I'm not a former Olympian or even a certified coach, but my first thought when I read JuiceWillis' advice from his coach was that Juice was a squirrelly rider (no offense) and he was prescribed wider bars to smooth him out. Unfortunately, his coach said it was for his breathing, which is a very old school thing to say, but it can possible still be true if Juice rides in a compact position with his elbows in his ribs. I admit, this isn't likely to be the case, but he's paying a coach and the coach is watching him race, so why not try what the coach says? If it doesn't work and the coach is stumped, then find a new coach.

Also, as a person with his own dissertation in the field of aerodynamics (helicopters), I appreciate additional reading material as Winter approaches.

pierrej

It may vary from person to person, but after a few weeks worth of rides I've not found much difference in control going from 44s to 40s on my road bike, you get used to it like every small change over time.

brawlo

From memory I think it's posted somewhere in these forums somewhere that the GB 3d printed titanium bars were 26??cm wide

There's a heap of speculation around as to why the bars are getting narrower. The only sciency/physiological explanation I've seen is that the concept is to bring the hands on or closer to the plane between the shoulders and feet. That then reduces the sway of the bike.

pierrej

The pursuit base bars wouldn't be much more than that. You can kind of see the same trend at team Sky with the time trial base bars being printed and narrow.

Also found a pic of the bars without a name, a cross between the look/BT bars, scatto like reach/drop, 33cm and apparently the stiffest bars they've ever used.

brawlo

Found the linky Track Cycling Equipment | UK Sport

Titanium in 26cm, carbon in 28, 32 & 35cm

gl98115

Jon Dibben won the WC points race this year on what look like 33cm Alpinas.

carleton

Yup. The British sprinters were the first ones to use the 33cm Alpinas. Their enduros were the first to use narrow bars for bunch races.

According to interviews, they also spend a lot of time in wind tunnels. They also pioneered the systematic use of power meters while hiring a staff member to analyze the files.

My guess is that it's not about what "feels right". It's about what is fastest.

I get the feeling that Team GB wasn't afraid to try anything, and they kept the bits that worked.

pierrej

As a team that solely exists to win medals that would be my thinking as well. Love the little bit of tape on the top for the sling as well.

carleton

I know, right?

Can you imagine all of grumbling and complaining that the athletes might have said when they were told that they were going from 38/40cm sprint bars down to even 33cm (Alpina). How do you tell a World Champion that his feel for the bike doesn't matter and he should use these narrow-ass bars

carleton

I just realized that Interbike was last week. Any new Track stuff?

queerpunk

you know how it is