hazben1

I am training for a century and am wondering which type of long ride will benefit me most.
A)60-70 miles minimizing how much nutrition I take in and even cutting back on the hydration a little.
With A ride I find the last hour or so it becomes somewhat of a struggle and my average speed for the entire ride is about 1 mph less. I am not bonking just tough going.
B)60-70 miles taking in plenty of nutrition and a good amount of hydration
With B ride I find myself being able to crank it up a notch the last hour and finish almost as strong as when I started.

I can fairly easily complete 60-70 miles and my eventual goal is to do a solo 5hr nonstop century. I am planning on doing 2 long rides a week should I try to do one of each?

bbattle

Eat and drink as much as you want on the ride. Starving yourself doesn't work, as you have noted.

Professionals eat ALL THE TIME while racing and their DS is reminding them on the radio to eat. I remember Contador bonking on a stage of Paris-Nice, it cost him the race. Armstrong bonked during the TdF and lost time on a stage. Lemond had to wait for Hinault to recover from not eating; Lemond could've won the TdF that year if he had kept going.

So EAT!

surgeonstone

Here's an idea, go out and mow your lawn, all 5 acres of it , on your sit down mower but don't put any gas in the tank. See how far you get.

indyfabz

Be nice to the short bus kids.

Machka 

Is this a serious question?

Why on earth would you do A)???


Eat ... drink ... have energy!

Lazyass

Then you can ride a century. Don't overthink it, just do it. It's not a superhuman feat or anything.

hazben1

The reasons I have done this are;
1)get my body more conditioned to using fat as an energy source vs. carbs. Believe me I have plenty to burn (235lbs)
2)condition myself to keep going when my body and mind wants to slow down or quit.

JerrySTL

The automotive analogy of A: I'm training for the Indy 500 so I'll only fill my gas tank, oil tank, and radiator half full and drive only 250 miles. That should work.

On century rides and longer, I think part of the training is getting into the habit of consuming the required amount of carbs and fluids. If you don't get enough of each, the last 20 miles can be harder than the first 80.

hazben1

Yeah, I have done a century before and I am pretty sure I could go out the door this morning and knock one out. But I am looking to improve my time and eventually do a 5 hr non-stop solo.

JerrySTL

My daughter did a sub-4 hour non-stop century once at the Hotter n Hell in Wichital Falls Tx. However it was anything but solo. There were about 50 very strong riders in that pack. She put two extra water bottles in her jersey pockets and filled the third pocket up with gel packs and other such energy foods. All 4 water bottles were filled with sports drinks.

I've done 2 sub-5 hours centuries but neither one was non-stop nor solo. One was with a great tail wind for 75 miles at RAGBRAI. I stopped for a nature break and fill water bottles twice. The other was when I was at my best fitness level with 4 other guys in perfect weather on great roads. We made short stops a few times.

Have you considered having someone handing you a mussete bag filled with high carb food and water bottles during the ride?

coasting 

i used to ride A. I ate nothing on 60 mile rides twice a week.

i managed to do an 8 hour century.

so good luck doing yout 5 hour!

indyfabz

1. Burning fat is harder.
2. Depriving yourself of proper energy and water will make your body want to slow down or quit faster and harder, making it more difficult to keep going.

I had the same doubt as Machka when I read your OP.

kc0bbq

I don't think you can force this like that. Genetics aside, efficiency comes from base fitness and being able to put out more power while staying at a lower heart rate.

revchuck 

There are a bunch of unanswered questions here. A general rule: NEVER cut back on hydration. Your body has fat stores it can access for energy. It doesn't have water stores it can access for water. In training, it can be helpful to cut back on nutrition to teach your body to prefer fat at moderate levels of exertion. I can do 70-80 mile rides at 18+ mph on water or water with electrolytes (no calories) and could probably do 100, but it took a while to get to that point. Note that I carry nutrition with me, I just don't use it unless I need to during training. Also note that for my last 100 mile race, I went through ~1000 calories on the bike, just to make sure I wouldn't run short.

You want to do two long rides a week. What will you do the other five days? This is pivotal.

What's the terrain like where you're riding? A hundred miles where I live is a lot different than a hundred miles in the Rockies, which in turn is a lot different than a hundred miles on the Great Plains with constant high winds.

What's your average speed on those 60-70 mile rides now? If it's in the 16-18 mph range now, nutrition isn't the limiter. If it's in the 19-20 mph range, you've got this, just need to fine tune.

Based on what you've written, I'd use your "B" ride as the model, and cut back slightly on the nutrition until you notice that it starts to affect your speed...and leave it there. Your speed will start to pick back up as your body learns to burn more fat at that speed. This takes a while, and how well it works varies among individuals. You may be able to repeat this process several times until you get down to little or no food on the ride. Then on your goal ride, take plenty of nutrition to ensure you've got enough. You don't have to use it, it's there "just in case".

Also note that a five hour solo century will usually consume more energy than a five hour road race, since you won't be able to draft. Your goal isn't an easy one.

hazben1

I am not certain how I will structure my other rides (open to suggestions). This week I will run 3 days then do a 40,50,60 and70. Typically I do one day on rollers where I go hard (80% HRM) for an hour.

It will most likely be a flat century. I can't climb at all do to my weight.


On Mondays' 60 miler I averaged 18.5mph ate 3/4 of a Cliff bar and had 3/4 bottle of electrolyte mix. I finished the ride feeling strong.

I have kind of been doing what you are suggesting. Just wondered is there a way to get more bang from my training.

hazben1

I did a 5hr 45min century a year ago no stopping and took it fairly easy since I was not sure what to expect the last 20 miles. I think I am in better cycling shape now than I was a year ago.

Steamer

This might help.

Is it better to do aerobic exercise fasted? - | Examine.com FAQ | Examine.com

hazben1

I have thought about having somebody give me water/nutrition at mile sixty and that may be what I do. I can pretty much ride 60 miles without stopping. In really hot summer I use a camel-back. Which I hate wearing but as much as I sweat it keeps me from having to stop to get more water. It may be before I try to do a solo 5hr century I may need to knock out a 5hr group ride first.

revchuck 

For the first bolded section - I don't see any recovery time in there. I'd put at least one, probably two easy days in there, either as a day off or a really easy hour-long ride. My goal on recovery rides is to keep both HR and watts around 100. For the second bolded section, you probably wouldn't have noticed missing that Clif bar. For that distance, I would've gone through about three bottles. Hydration needs vary widely, but IMO you were way under-hydrated.
Sounds like the five hour thing is totally feasible.
That's definitely what I'd do, if possible. Start with three bottles (two in the cages, one in a jersey pocket) and reload about halfway through. It's way better to have too much water than not enough. BTDT.

milkbaby

Very cool link with many exercise science articles cited!

Chris Carmichael just wrote an article about "Train Low" in the recent Road Bike Action. He discussed training on low carbohydrate stores. The two studies he cited were that witholding carbs during endurance training (long steady training) did not show a marked improvement over taking carbs. He did say there is evidence that starting your ride in a fasted state (low carb stores) does give some benefit over starting in a fed state, which seems to be what the research cited in the Examine.com link above says as well. Carmichael recommended doing your long steady rides in a fasted state, basically skip breakfast, but take your regular intake of nutrition during the ride. He noted that your perceived exertion will increase quicker when you do this in a fasted state and gave the example that how you feel in the last hour of a five hour ride begun in a fed state might be what you end up feeling like in the last hour of a three hour ride begun in a fasted state.

I talked with a number of exercise scientists, and only one has ever told me there was any benefit to avoiding hydration during training. So it seems the vast majority of studies show there is no benefit to limiting your fluid intake during training. The only time I do it is due to convenience factors, i.e. not wanting to take the time to stop to get more fluids.

hazben1

The way I listed the mileage is probably misleading. I rode 40 Sat, ran 6 Sun, rode 60 Mon, ran 6 Tues, rode 50 Wed, ran 6 Thurs, plan on 70 in the morning when I get off work. I agree I was probably under hydrated, I just didn't want to have to unclip to pee. Surprising thing to me is as far as making me a stronger rider sometimes I think the tough 1 hr roller ride benefits me more than a 40 miler. I suspect I could probably do close to a 5 hr group ride right now. My goal of a 5 hr solo is probably 1-1.5 years away.

Thanks for the feedback

curlyque

No it isn't :-)

snidely

I see no benefit to starving yourself. You need fuel to ride. I can't imagine any "gains" you would see by starvation during training.

Not only that, but afterward your body will be screaming for nutrition. I know I would tend to gorge in this situation. Defeating the goal of weight loss.

Is there any study that you know of to support a benefit of not fueling during extended training? Real question.

hazben1

I read a book by Friel? on training for triathlons and if I remember correctly there was a chapter in there about cutting back on calories during the ride and reducing intensity. Essentially he felt it helped train the body to burn fat. Hopefully somebody here who has read the book and remembers it better can give a more intelligent answer.