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Bicycle repossession. Is it coming?

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Bicycle repossession. Is it coming?

Old 06-23-21, 03:20 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
I was talking about consumer loans, not houses. It's pretty clear this thread is about consumer spending, not anything with tangible value. Housing certainly is one area where I'm never paying cash, but it's not a $10000 bicycle either. My insistence on buying bikes with cash limits me to $3000 bicycles, plus or minus.

We have plenty of investments and are also debt free, the kids made it through college without taking any loans and that combined is probably worth at least another $50k in stress reduction and happiness to me. And that's a very generous estimate of what I might have made with the money had I engaged in debt arbitrage.
Thanks for the clarification, and I agree on your points. Paying interest to buy a bike probably indicates that you should not be buying it.

Good work on the tuition pmts. Same for me - I started saving for it when my daughter was a fetus. I now work with (among other things) a collegeís financial aid data, and some of it is pretty shocking.
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Old 06-23-21, 04:22 AM
  #52  
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All bike shops I know of in the UK offer finance, usually at 0%. Itís the only way they are going to sell high-end bikes to younger people. With the high cost of living, they simply donít have the savings to buy big ticket items up front.

If I was going to buy a £10k bike I would prefer to pay it off over 3 years for sure, even if I did have the cash. They donít offer any discount if you pay up-front and there is no interest on the finance. So there is really no incentive to pay the full amount on purchase. All these loans are unsecured, so there is not going to be any re-possession if you donít make the payments.
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Old 06-23-21, 05:46 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
I was talking about consumer loans, not houses. It's pretty clear this thread is about consumer spending, not anything with tangible value. Housing certainly is one area where I'm never paying cash, but it's not a $10000 bicycle either. My insistence on buying bikes with cash limits me to $3000 bicycles, plus or minus.

We have plenty of investments and are also debt free, the kids made it through college without taking any loans and that combined is probably worth at least another $50k in stress reduction and happiness to me. And that's a very generous estimate of what I might have made with the money had I engaged in debt arbitrage.
Itís pretty clear that many people in this thread made blanket statements about all loans so Koyote was spot on.
Itís also pretty clear that this thread isnít about your random $3,000 bike limit or your personal $50k stress reduction factor yet you felt the need to include them.
Carry on.
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Old 06-23-21, 06:22 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Cpn_Dunsel View Post
Sometimes paying interest on something such as a bike is still a wise move if a person acquires it in timely fashion and the item fills a need. Getting something today instead of tomorrow has value and that value is different for different people.
"Want" vs "need" is a subjective judgment; there is no logical nor empirical way to distinguish between them -- as suggested by your statement that "value is different for different people."

Originally Posted by Cpn_Dunsel View Post
and often debt can be renegotiated such that only a fraction of the actual cost is actually ever delivered. It is very common to renegotiate a debt packaged at 60% on the dollar so that one actually never even pays the interest and sometimes not even the full principle of the loan (especially with unsecured credit -- go into default and watch the offers develop. Surprising the deals one can broker when one is not afraid of using default as a mechanism))
There's another name for "using default as a mechanism," but it will get me run afoul of the sensor. It will also kill a person's credit rating.

Originally Posted by Cpn_Dunsel View Post
Debt is simply a financial mechanism.
​​​​​​​If there is one thing that this thread has demonstrated, it is that, for many people, debt represents much more than a mere "financial mechanism." Those folks have different values, and there's nothing wrong with that, objectively speaking.
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Old 06-23-21, 07:37 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Camilo View Post
Yeah that's why most Americans have so few assets when they want to retire. Idiots.
I don't disagree. However...I'm not one of them. Mortgage payment is the only debt payment I have every month.
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Old 06-23-21, 07:38 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by Cpn_Dunsel View Post
Yes. Synchrony Bank will bankroll bike purchases from several of the bigger players (Trek, Giant, etc)

Unsecured credit, very high interest rates. Aggressive collection practices that will move to litigation quickly.
0% interest for 12 months with the Synchrony card.
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Old 06-23-21, 07:42 AM
  #57  
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To end this thread...Bicycle repossession is not going to be a thing.
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Old 06-23-21, 07:45 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
To end this thread...Bicycle repossession is not going to be a thing.
I said as much earlier but it's BF so people are more interested in demonstrating how much smarter and financially savvy they are than everyone else rather than the actual topic.
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Old 06-23-21, 07:48 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by ksryder View Post
I said as much earlier but it's BF so people are more interested in demonstrating how much smarter and financially savvy they are than everyone else rather than the actual topic.
Right?!!!
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Old 06-23-21, 08:08 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by ksryder View Post
I said as much earlier but it's BF so people are more interested in demonstrating how much smarter and financially savvy they are than everyone else rather than the actual topic.
Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
Right?!!!
Umm, pretty much every thread on bf wanders around to a rather large variety of OT subjects, in case you haven't noticed. This one has been no different.
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Old 06-23-21, 09:43 AM
  #61  
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I purchased 3 bikes on 12 months / Interest free.

Wasn't a problem at all.
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Old 06-23-21, 10:06 AM
  #62  
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....

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Old 06-23-21, 01:04 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
I was talking about consumer loans, not houses. It's pretty clear this thread is about consumer spending, not anything with tangible value. Housing certainly is one area where I'm never paying cash, but it's not a $10000 bicycle either. My insistence on buying bikes with cash limits me to $3000 bicycles, plus or minus.

We have plenty of investments and are also debt free, the kids made it through college without taking any loans and that combined is probably worth at least another $50k in stress reduction and happiness to me. And that's a very generous estimate of what I might have made with the money had I engaged in debt arbitrage.
IDK about others, but that was the first interpretation I made of it, & was correct on my thinking regarding your post.

Homes, major house repairs, education loans for a purposed degree, medical; [something of need & not a want [should it come down to it] , & potentially a business loan are types of loans applied for... Unless you have that much bankroll under the mattress, I dont see how the "average" American could do it without being questioned. Sure, an inheritance could provide such money to avoid needing credit, but that to me is not likely to happen on "average" . ymmv
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Old 06-23-21, 01:09 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by Cpn_Dunsel View Post
Only to a very few that qualify and if the debt is not fully paid in that period they litigate quickly. A good many people that use Synchrony to finance bikes don't seem to be able to hit that 12 month window. If it is less than $1k they only go 6 months.

Disclosure: I have worked with Synchrony and many clients over debt issues.

And fwiw, they are getting pretty good at turning unsecured credit into secured liens through the court systems when people default. Negotiation is the key.
It is not only a very few that qualify. The vast majority of applicants with average to good credit immediately qualify. There is nothing exclusive about it.
Either way, the fact that a certain % of people default on all types of loans really isnít pertinent to this rambling discussion, as telling someone with poor finance habits what to do is like pissing in the wind. It doesnít mean that people with good credit should not take advantage of it.
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Old 06-23-21, 01:16 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
I bought a car in 2016. It cost a lot less than my annual income. I could have paid cash for it, but I financed at 0%.
I try to avoid loans for anything except a new car (or a house). To me, a car loan at 2% or lower, and using payroll deduction makes it feel like it is free... However, after the loan is paid, I leave the deduction active, but direct it to my bank account. That way when I get a new car, I just redirect it to the new car loan.

For everything else, like a bike, or other consumer items I pay cash or use a credit card, which is paid in full each month.

Last edited by Bill in VA; 06-23-21 at 01:26 PM.
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Old 06-23-21, 01:51 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by Bill in VA View Post

For everything else, like a bike, or other consumer items I pay cash or use a credit card, which is paid in full each month.
I paid off my mortgage in 2019, after only 11 years. Didn't like that debt hanging over my head. I think that decision was influenced in large par by an earlier chapter in my life. In 1999, at age 34, I volunteered to be downsized in the wake of a corprorate acquisition. The severance I received combined with the lack and any debt, allowed to me to take two year off from the working world. During that time I did around 10,000 of unsupported touring in the U.S. and Andalucia, Spain, including a nearly four month trip across the U.S. and then some. I wouldn't trade my experiences for the money and career advancement I sacrificed.

And like you, I pay "cash" for day-to-day things. Use my REI credit card and pay it off in full each month. I don't think I have paid credit card finance charges since my mid-20, and even then it was only for a couple of months when I needed to buy a lot of stuff to start life after being a student. When I bought what I hope will be my last road bike in 2016 I paid with a check and got a 2% discount from the builder, which is twice what I would have earned had I put it on my REI credit card.
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Old 06-23-21, 02:20 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
When I bought what I hope will be my last road bike in 2016 I paid with a check and got a 2% discount from the builder, which is twice what I would have earned had I put it on my REI credit card.
The days of cash discounts in the UK seem to have disappeared (unless paying some dodgy builder who is going to hide it from the taxman). You are actually more likely to get a discount if you agree to take the finance, especially with cars. So to get the discount you end up taking out the finance and then pay it off in full before the interest ever kicks in.

But I doubt bike finance has quite got to that level yet. They are usually simple 0% interest deals over a few years to encourage consumers to go large on their specs. Itís much easier to convince a 20 something professional to buy a £10k S-works if you turn it into a monthly £278 payment and donít charge any interest.
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Old 06-23-21, 03:39 PM
  #68  
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Even with 0% interest it still makes no sense to me to be putting yourself into unnecessary debt by purchasing a bicycle on credit. Why add unnecessary monthly payments when you don't really have to ??
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Old 06-23-21, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Even with 0% interest it still makes no sense to me to be putting yourself into unnecessary debt by purchasing a bicycle on credit. Why add unnecessary monthly payments when you don't really have to ??
If the purchase doesnt overextend the income, puts a load of risk on other debit, & it's bought with realistic expectations; The payment can be justified for some. It's not my money someone is spending when they put that McDonalds purchase on a credit card, nor is it my luvhandles that those buns are going to be absorb into...
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Old 06-23-21, 03:53 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Even with 0% interest it still makes no sense to me to be putting yourself into unnecessary debt by purchasing a bicycle on credit. Why add unnecessary monthly payments when you don't really have to ??
Why pay the whole amount up-front when you can pay exactly the same amount in smaller regular payments? Let's say you are buying a £10k bike and you have £10k sitting in cash savings. Is it smarter to pay the £10k straight away or pay the same £10k in monthly payments at 0% interest, while you keep the balance in an interest earning savings account or some other low risk investment? Why give away all your cash up front when you don't have to? Obviously this requires some level of discipline that some people clearly cannot handle.
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Old 06-23-21, 04:42 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Even with 0% interest it still makes no sense to me to be putting yourself into unnecessary debt by purchasing a bicycle on credit. Why add unnecessary monthly payments when you don't really have to ??
Because you can take the lump sum and get return on it thatís greater than 0%. Monthly payments are not inconvenient to some. With that said, I personally wouldnít do it for any type of bike that I would buy. Car is a different story.
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Old 06-23-21, 07:50 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Even with 0% interest it still makes no sense to me to be putting yourself into unnecessary debt by purchasing a bicycle on credit. Why add unnecessary monthly payments when you don't really have to ??
See post #15 above.
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Old 06-24-21, 07:47 AM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Even with 0% interest it still makes no sense to me to be putting yourself into unnecessary debt by purchasing a bicycle on credit. Why add unnecessary monthly payments when you don't really have to ??
This has been explained once already.

It frees up money over a 6 or 12 month period that can be invested in a 401k or IRA which has, on average, a 10% or greater return rate.

It would be nice if our public school system educated people more on economics and finance.
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Old 06-24-21, 07:52 AM
  #74  
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There's a part in "A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court" where the protagonist attempts to explain inflation to a medieval peasant by showing him that although he might be getting more gold than he would in another area, things also cost more, so the net effect is that he has less money. The peasant cannot or will not comprehend.

I'm just mentioning that for no particular reason.
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Old 06-24-21, 08:00 AM
  #75  
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