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Why is my better bike slower?

Old 06-23-21, 05:25 PM
  #26  
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What lube are you using? Wax? Motor oil? WDforty? Spit? Lard?

Tires can cause a change too.
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Old 06-23-21, 06:04 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Barry2 View Post
LOL only 3%, I wish it was only 3%

I run a power meter on the bike... I'm NOT guessing !

For every Watt your body places into the bike as power, your body wastes 3.2 Watts as heat. We are not a very efficient engine.
This heat must be cooled or we overheat.
We are AIR cooled and once the ambient rises, the cooling effect drops.
The body will reduce the power output rather than overheat, and the time on the route goes up.

So, ambient temp very much controls your ability to output power and your speed.
This doesn't take into consideration dehydration, which just makes matters worse.

Barry

BTW I'm in California, last week it hit 107F / 41.7C
Body Temp = 98.6F / 37C.
Can you imagine the "cooling" effect of air that is 8F / 5C hotter than you are!
I run power meters too. Are you saying in hotter weather your segment time increases by 30 percent or are you saying your power drops by 30 percent?

It gets hot where I am too, but I try not to ride when it gets over 100F. When I do, my power doesn't drop by 30 percent. Even if it did, according to bikecalculator.com, my segment time on a 30 mile ride would increase in time by only about 18 percent.

That all being said, now I'm wondering what my power drop is when it gets around 100F. I need to break out VeloViewer. Over 30 miles, it would unquestionably drop at that temperature, because I really dislike the heat. My gut feel would be around 15 percent. That would drop my time by maybe 10 percent. And I'm a big guy who hates the heat.
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Old 06-23-21, 06:08 PM
  #28  
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I'm old, big, and working to improve fitness.
Thanks for making me own up!


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Old 06-23-21, 06:17 PM
  #29  
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Here's an interesting article about heat vs. speed https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2039810/ that I just found and read (part of).

A couple of examples are contained, the first is a 30 minute time trial in 73F and again at 90F. I assume this is in well conditioned athletes. The difference in this example was a reduction of 6.5% in power, which translated to 2.8% slower. This is an interesting subject that I never thought much about other than I just try not to ride when it gets really hot.

The article mentioned the possibility of why power is reduced could be because of mitochondrial leakage. I don't know what that means, but it sounds horrifying.
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Old 06-23-21, 06:24 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by MattTheHat View Post
Here's an interesting article about heat vs. speed https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2039810/ that I just found and read (part of).

A couple of examples are contained, the first is a 30 minute time trial in 73F and again at 90F. I assume this is in well conditioned athletes. The difference in this example was a reduction of 6.5% in power, which translated to 2.8% slower. This is an interesting subject that I never thought much about other than I just try not to ride when it gets really hot.

The article mentioned the possibility of why power is reduced could be because of mitochondrial leakage. I don't know what that means, but it sounds horrifying.
90 dry vs 90 humid vs 90 no wind vs 90 windy vs 90 in the direct sunlight vs 90 in the dark. Only one of those will I feel like I'm down on performance.
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Old 06-23-21, 07:05 PM
  #31  
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I agree that fit is a big part.

But the Trek might just have better geometry for that course. Weight is only one piece of it.

John
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Old 06-24-21, 04:39 AM
  #32  
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Do they both have the same length cranks?
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Old 06-24-21, 05:41 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by halehankock View Post
Good advice! I felt like when i have pushed for a PR with the Specialized a number of times, I actually worked harder those times, just 3-4 weeks ago than I did with the Trek and was much slower.

Also, I got my Specialized fitted to me in 2019 so I would hope I'm in the optimal position for handlebars, seat, pedals, etc. The trek has me in a slightly more upright position which i'd imagine isn't in my favor either.
Maybe it was fit for comfort, not aerodynamics.
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Old 06-24-21, 06:05 AM
  #34  
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Interesting situation. More testing is required to determine if this experience was a one-off, or consistently true. About 10 years ago we fit a seasoned domestic pro using power meters and video. 4 weeks later he came back with real world results that were disappointing, and we changed the fit back to what he had been using for some years.
Point is that sometimes a fitting does not translate to efficiency in application. More riding is needed to determine what gives here.
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Old 06-24-21, 06:13 AM
  #35  
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Some years ago, before I got smart and started riding titanium, I switched from a Trek 1500 aluminum to Specialized Tarmac carbon. I had both bikes at the same time for a while. In quite a bit of apples to apples comparison riding I was faster on the Trek.
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Old 06-24-21, 07:51 AM
  #36  
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Tires are probably the difference.

Does one bike have a higher or lower spoke count than the other? Deeper profile rims? Bladed spokes? All of those can make up a tiny difference.

In the yo-yo world, sometimes people pull the seals off the bearing and clean them out. This is called running dry. This makes for a loud but extremely fast spinning and long spinning throw. Yes, it wears out quickly.

It could be something like that on the bikes. Old bearings, a little dry, on cup and cones VS new cartridge with tight seals. Ive seen it.

My last idea is how fun a bike is to ride. I had a Litespeed Vortex with every bell and whistle 2006 had to offer. Truly amazing bike. I quickly switched back to my plain old aluminum trusty bike. The fancy bike just didnt have that zing and I never raced well on it.
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Old 06-24-21, 08:34 AM
  #37  
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I just switched out the wheels and tires on my bike, from 36 hole box section clinchers or lightweight aero tubulars. Went from vittoria open corsa tires to veloflex robaix tubulars. Gearing is the same. Im consistently slower over the same routes. I am more comfortable tho.
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Old 06-24-21, 09:39 AM
  #38  
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I really appreciate all the feedback guys! A few more details about the ride. The lake loop segment itself is only 4 miles, so that's 37 seconds faster in only 4 miles., Elevation change of 66ft so it's pretty flat, with just about constantly small little ups and downs but nothing crazy.

2010 Trek 2.1 Alpha Specs vs. Specialized Roubaix Expert

Frameset

Frame

Alpha Black Aluminum (Specialized: Specialized SL4 FACT 10r carbon, FACT construction, tapered/shaped 1-1/8"" to size-specific lower headtube, compact race design, Zertz, internal cable routing, carbon OSBB)

Fork

Bontrager Race, carbon; SpeedTrap compatible (Specialized: Specialized Roubaix FACT carbon full monocoque, Zertz, size-specific)

Size

54

Wheels

Wheels

Bontrager SSR (43cm: alloy hubs w/650c Alex rims) (Specialized: Fulcrum S4)

Tyres

Continental Grand Prix 700x23c (Specialized: Continental Gatorskins 700x23c)

Drivetrain

Shifters

Shimano 105 STI, 10 speed (Specialized: Shimano Ultegra, 11-speed, 11-32)

Front derailleur

Shimano 105 (Specialized: Shimano Ultegra, braze-on, 11-speed)

Rear derailleur

Shimano 105 (Specialized: Shimano Ultegra, 11-speed, long-cage)

Crank

Shimano R-600 50/34 or R-553 50/39/30 (Specialized: FSA SL-K Light, carbon, BB30)

Cassette

Shimano 105 12-27, 10 speed (Specialized: Shimano Ultegra, 11-speed, 11-32)

Components

Seatpost

Bontrager Carbon (Specialized: S-Works CG-R, FACT carbon w/ Zertz, 27.2mm)

Handlebar

Bontrager SSR VR, 31.8mm (Specialized: Specialized Expert Shallow Bend, alloy, 123mm drop, 75mm reach)

Stem

Bontrager Race Lite, 7 degree, 31.8mm (Specialized: Specialized Expert Pro-Set, 3D forged aluminum, 4-position adjustable, 4-bolt, 31.8mm)
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Old 06-24-21, 09:46 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by halehankock View Post
Tyres

Continental Grand Prix 700x23c (Specialized: Continental Gatorskins 700x23c)
Dun dun DUNNN!
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Old 06-24-21, 10:06 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Dun dun DUNNN!
+1 You either run Gaterskins on both bikes or neither.
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Old 06-24-21, 10:21 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Dun dun DUNNN!
We have a winner!
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Old 06-24-21, 10:57 AM
  #42  
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That's the answer.
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Old 06-24-21, 01:13 PM
  #43  
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You're saying the grand prix's are that much quicker?!
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Old 06-24-21, 02:05 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by halehankock View Post
Continental Grand Prix 700x23c (Specialized: Continental Gatorskins 700x23c)
Hahaha.

Originally Posted by halehankock View Post
You're saying the grand prix's are that much quicker?!
It depends on various particulars, but it wouldn't be unrealistic for them to save you on the order of half a mph or more.
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Old 06-24-21, 02:32 PM
  #45  
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I'm not sure I'd judge a bike by a single ride where you clocked 37 seconds faster. I would cycle that same route five times and average to see how you do.

On my 7 mile loop my times vary quite a bit but bounce around within about a 50 second spread. Some days I feel strong, other days not so much so.

A single 37 second ride improvement wouldn't be a good indicator for me; however, if my last five rides are 37 seconds faster than the previous average, then yes, something is different.
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Old 06-24-21, 02:50 PM
  #46  
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Well, I guess I'll be ordering some GP 5000s for my Specialized
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Old 06-24-21, 03:25 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by halehankock View Post
Continental Grand Prix 700x23c (Specialized: Continental Gatorskins 700x23c)
It turns out the white horse was two inches taller than the black one https://startsat60.com/media/lifesty...ell-them-apart
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Old 06-26-21, 07:21 AM
  #48  
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I have several bikes and they're each the fastest when the tire pressure is 120 psi, I run tubulars. Noticeably slower when it's 100 psi
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Old 06-26-21, 07:47 AM
  #49  
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The slower bike obviously has parasitic gremlins.
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Old 06-26-21, 10:09 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by halehankock View Post
You're saying the grand prix's are that much quicker?!
According to this site: https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...prix-5000-2018, the GP 5000s will save you 9.3 watts at 18mph (assuming 120psi and a load weight of 94lbs) That's a meaningful difference. I'd definitely be interested to see what happens when you change tires.
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