cooker

You checked the wrong dictionaries. Here you go.

Blackberry

Enjoy your ride. That's about it.

carless

Dear rec-cyclist
Thanks for the sterotypes, the references to elitism (x2), extremeness, lack of real world awareness, the categorization as hard core, and the sin of poor judgement (ours) on not having or recgonizing the dangers/stupidity of cars and wives/babies. I will (others will too- I hope) try to be more entertaining and less predictable. Thank you for visiting the car-free forum and please feel free to add more wisdom, as well as tips and hints to help us gain recgonition as a viable transportation alternative.

dsm iv tr

+1

Brian Sorrell

I'm not car free, insofar as I own a car. And my wife owns a car. And we even use the cars. But we bike as much as practical / possible, such as to work, on grocery runs, out to eat, etc.

I read the car free forum to see what clever ways others come up with to navigate the US without the car, and I try to read through the "elitism" and pick up useful tips, of which there are many to be found here.

The so-called elitism that pervades this topic takes other forms in other topics. For example, it seems that most everyone really hates hybrid bikes, and the animosity directed toward hybrid riders is sometimes astounding (I ride a Trek 7200 fx, so I'm one of the targets). What puzzles me is that, in the end, we're all cyclists and we all have this common activity that should unite us. Furthermore, we're all riding many of the same components, which makes these silly arguments look like they're just about geometry.

I often wonder why we don't emphasize what unites us -- namely cycling. Is it some hard-wired tendency to split up and take sides, as if cycling were a political struggle??

It strikes me that "car free" is often about leaving an environmentally shallower footprint. I'm doing what I can to accomplish that and I'm pleased with the progress that I continue to make in this direction. And I don't try to beat others over the head with my transportation-lifestyle. I encourage people, I help with bike repairs, planning trips and routes, advice about traffic, and so on.

That's enough for me, and it makes a much further-reaching impact when you treat fellow riders respectfully and with encouragement. If you want to be an "elitist" or a "drama queen", just recognize that you end up putting people off, and that hurts the common goals of getting more people cycling and keeping our footprints light.

bragi

You're new here, aren't you?

Just kidding. I like your post, actually; it's refreshingly reasonable, and, I don't know, mature.

Just my .02:

1. In this country, in many ways cycling IS a political act, (which is possibly one reason rednecks in pickups try to run me down sometimes, because they sense it, too). I mean, fundamentally, it's just a cheap way to get around, but it's also a quiet rebuke to our heavy-consumption lifestyle. Sort of like eating rice and vegetables in front of a person who just finished topping off her triple-bacon cheeseburger with a large hot fudge sundae...

2. Are there really people who hate hybrid bikes?! I have a hybrid, which I love, and this is not good news. I've had some skinny-tire lycra types give me superior little smiles from time to time, as they blow past my fat-tire, beer-laden steel monstronsity, but never more than that, not so much as a smug comment. News of this attitude is deeply hurtful.

3. Since you own cars, and I do not, I will always look down on you. Yeah, right. Just because I'm too cheap to buy a car, and am totally freaked out about global warming and peak oil, and am desperately trying to contribute my drop in the bucket doesn't mean I feel superior to a man who's spewing CO2 into the atmosphere like there's no tomorrow... I'm sorry, I couldn't help myself. Going for the cheap laugh at another's expense. In all seriousness, I heartily applaud your efforts. No, I mean it this time. If we all did what you're doing, things wouldn't be quite so terrifying right now...

slagjumper

I think that the car-bound are the drama queens. When confronted with the idea that someone could ride a bike, instead of the car sends them wild. They cry about how it could never happen, how everyone is addicted to cars, how cars are needed for continued existance of the American way. To them I say you a wrong--

View this short video from 1899. Right click and save.
https://memory.loc.gov/mbrs/awal/0147.mpg

wageslaveonbike

You sound pretty dramatic to me. I don't see anybody making the assertions or judgments that you speak of. I think shooting people is kinda dramatic.

wageslaveonbike

You may call me a drama queen because I fart in the general direction of your automobile. I say you are the drama queens who will pollute my lungs with your fossil-flatulence and my ears with such drabble as "waaa! I need my car, don't judge me! Boo hooo! You can be carfree, just don't tell me about it! Waaaa!"

Just because people speak of the detrimental effects of driving cars and offer eachother support and encouragement in their daily endeavor to live life with a liter foot print doesn't make us elitists. I think it is a good thing for people to challenge eachother and push eachother to our limits.

bmclaughlin807

HEY! I LIKE my triple-bacon cheeseburgers, damn it!

Roody

Good post, Brian. I agree with much of what you say, but not everything.

One lesson of Bikeforums is that cycling is a unifying issue only to a point. Bikeforums is divided into many subforums because we as cyclists are not in total agreement aout which aspects of cycling interest us. We don't agree about which type of bike is best--road, mountain, tandem, ss/fg, BMX, etc. We don't even agree about the purpose of a bike. Is it a toy, a vehicle, a training machine, a political statement? There is room for all these views here, and many more, but I don't see why we must always agree with one another just because we all love bikes.

These are the very first words of you message and that's fine--your choice and all that--however, you do know that that this is a carfree forum. I hope you don't expect to find a lot of support here for your choices. But neither should you expect to be attacked, since you seem to be expressing your opinion in a sincere manner.

Personally, I would be more interested in your reasons for continuing to drive, even though you seem to have some misgivings about cars and their impact on the environment. It seems that, like almost everybody, you would drive much less if you believed that you could still have a nice life without driving much at all. Well, there are many voices here saying that you probably can live nicely without a car. And if that's not feasible, there are ways to drive less, many of them involving creative use of the bike you love. If you do indeed want to cut back on driving, I hope you find ideas and support from some of the things we post here. OTOH, maybe you'll consider that a statement of our choices, and our enthusiasm for the "cause"--both expressed in a friendly carfree environment--are not meant as attacks on you personally, or on your car-centered lifestyle.

Which leads me to the other statement that gave me pause:

Who do you think is beating somebody over the head with their transportation choices? I assume you mean it is carfree people on this forum. If so, I'd like to give you the other point of view: Since this is a carfree forum, you really have to expect that people will unapologetically affirm their choice to be carfree. Expecting otherwise is like going to the 2004 GOP convention and claiming that John Kerry isn't being given a fair chance for rebuttal. A good Republican in that forum might say, "Oh well, so what? He'll have his chance in November." In this forum, we are much more welcoming than that, but we still feel justified in expecting that carfree is the norm here, and we assume (sometimes wrongly) that people who post are either carfree themselves, or else come to learn more about it.

Brian Sorrell

Hey thanks for your kind responses. If I might just add a couple of thoughts:

I usually read the commuter forums, because I am a commuter and there does seem to be a sort of looking down on those who choose hybrids. It makes me sad, especially when other riders push really expensive bikes as the only way to ride. These are the sorts of occasions where I want to say, "But hey! We're all commuters here!"

So yes I'm a total newb in this forum, but I'm here because I'm becomming car free, and that's not always easy. My gentle admonishment to the "drama queens" is in that spirit. There are those of us here who want to learn more, and just because we have four-wheeled steel beasts still in the driveway doesn't mean that we're monsters.

I would also argue that I do not have a "car-centered" lifestyle. For example, I last put gas in the car on May 1. Since then, I have driven 200 miles, which includes a trip to visit friends far away (no public transport available or we'd have taken that) -- and we brought the bikes -- and also trips to the lumber yard because I build furniture part time and have to get materials once in a while. That kind of stuff is tough to carry 20 miles on the bike

Other than that, I walk or ride. We live in a convenient spot where all the things we need are within a mile or two.

By "beating over the head" I didn't mean anyone in particular. I just mean that I try to take a sympathetic tone with people. For example, I started biking to work because of concerns of peak oil, patriotism, etc. (Yes, biking is quite patriotic, I'd say). At first, everyone just assumed that I got my license suspended -- how about that? Rather than fire back with stats about the Hubbert Peak or CO2, I tell them that I have made a choice. I find that after a response like that, they're interested in why, rather than defense about their own habits. Since then, I have made a few commuting converts at work, and that makes me happy.

My wife works five miles away and looks really cute on her Electra Townie, so I'm continuing to encourage her to ride more often too. Plus, we're training for our Labor Day vacation to the beach. We're doing a 55 mile ride out.

Anyway, thank you for the thoughtful responses. I'll continue to quietly read more and learn.

Roody

^^Well I'm glad you're here Brian. I think you'll have a lot of fun getting into bikes more and cars less.


Well of course I take a sympathetic approach with people in real life too. But this forum is one place where I like to let my hair down, since I assume most people are basically sympathetic to the carfree concept.

chephy

+1.

Amazing how those who made our cities stinky and noisy concrete jungles and who kill many thousands of people every year both directly and indirectly (e.g. asthma...) have the gall to demand respect for their choice as if there was nothing wrong with it whatsoever. Yes, there IS something wrong it. Sure, a responsible and light use of a car is fine. Sure, a lot of the times one is pretty much forced to have a car in the U.S. and to use it heavily but it's still nothing to be proud about. At best it's forgivable.

iBarna

Eh, I wish this forum would be more about getting down to the business of being car-free and less about ideology. I'd have the same reaction at a quit-smoking forum where the majority of discussions would revolve around the pros and cons of quitting. I mean, to me it's a tautology -- this is the car free forum. It was created (I assume) for people who are car free or want to be. If you think car free is not for you, don't come here.

I just like to ride my bike and not make a big deal out of being car free, but then that's the way I grew up in Europe. I'm bewildered about this forum at times and unfortunately it's only of limited use for me.

Cyclist0383

It seems to me that many on this forum think that being carfree is morally superior to having a car. This comes out in many post where people mention that they are car-light or even when car owners ask questions.

The way that our society is structured it is impossible for any of us not to rely on oil driven vehicles. They bring our food to the store, they bring our computer parts from Asia, they even bring our loved ones to our homes. Should my 78 year old mother-in-law ride a bike to the market when it's -20c outside? No, she should take the bus as she does. Many people live in very different circumstances than we do. This should not be frogotten.

In short it's a lifestyle choice that each individual makes. No one will change their mind about petro dependence by having someone tell them that they are morally superior to them and should live their lives las they do.

As free people we should look at others with respect even if we don't agree with the way they live there lives. Just as we would like them to look at us. Through positive actions things will change.

iBarna

*cough*

wageslaveonbike

You are right, we do depend on fossil fuels for damn near everything we do (even building bicycles! Holy sh**!). But we do the best we can with the options that are available to us. Along the way we learn of other changes that can be made in our everyday lives, and with a little persistance, we start to become better people. But I can't say I've ever heard anybody actually say that they are morally superior because they don't drive a car. Quite contrary, I hear people tell others how morally superior they are for having the etiquette not to inconvenience people with the idea that they are not doing nearly as much as they could do to make a positive impact on the world. Its almost as if the message I get from people is: "keep your god damn mouth shut! Don't tell us anything that doesn't make us feel we are absolved from all responability!".

But anyway, you bring up a very valid point: We are all inescapably dependant on social structures that we dispise. But for f***'s sake, lets try to do something about it then, or else accept responability for our participation. there is no moral superiority here. I'm probably the most lazy bastard in this forum. We just gotta rock the boat a little bit! A small group of dedicated people can change the world!