bigfred 

Sounds like a reasonably solid build. The only thing I uncertain about is if the asymmetry of the 440 rear and subsequent more evenly distributed tension provides a level of durability comparable to the 585. The only asymmetric rimmed wheels I've worked on have been for Mrs. Fred and a couple of buddies who don't go over 180.

In an ideal world this would be excellent advice. Unfortunately we don't live in an ideal world. Having lived in several cities and a couple of continents I've experienced some very dubious advice from wheel "experts". When we moved to Auckland I started interviewing mechanics to see who would get my business. First eliminating the chain stores and those with mechanics under the age of 25, I arrived at 6 potential service providers. 2 of those were eliminated in the first couple questions to their mechanics. Of the 4 remaining, 3 failed to be able to keep 32 or 36 spoke wheels servicable for me. The one that did had an owner/mechanic who thought I was nuts and obsessive, but, delivered what I asked for regarding tension requirements, uniformity and who's work would last more than 6 months. It was only his going on vacation that caused me to get frustrated with being reliant on a single individual and start building and maintaining my own.

Of the other 3 shops, despite their inability to maintain 32 or 36 spoke wheels for me, they would have happily indulged my fancy for whatever light weight wheel I wanted to buy or have built. As I stood in one, not for the first time, holding a wheel they had maintained less than 3 days prior but now with broken spokes, they suggested I should buy the set of Zipp 101s I was admiring as I waited my turn to be served.

Unfortunately the Peter White style of advice to clydes is entirely lacking in most instances. They'll "sell to you" what they believe "you want to buy", regardless of it's suitability. It's the rare region that has a dedicated wheelsmith that is not a full function shop and who's reputation is built solely on delivering robust wheel advice and service.

So, often times us clydes end up providing alot of feedback to each other about what works and what doesn't.

I'll be interested, as will probably others in the clyde community, to hear back from qqy in 12 months time about how many miles he's racked up on the 440s and how they're holding up. Maybe we have a replacement for the earlier Open Pros that were reknowned for the all-around capabilities, but, which seem to have gone down hill.

qqy

This is where you lost me. OPs have NEVER been a very strong rim, especially for clydes. I have personally cracked three around the eyelets. Likewise, they've hardly evolved from the original Open SUP rims 20 years ago. I've had sets of CXP30s (28h) and 33s (32h) go for over ten thousand clicks until the first broken spoke. Modern wide v-section rims are superior to any single or double walled box section, tho my 465s are proving to be very strong.

Asymmetric rims do indeed build up better because you don't have to set the DS tension first, then set the NDS side to balance out with the correct dish. The A23 I built as an ayssm. rear rim, however the spoke drilling was not offset like the rim shape so the spokes bent a little more than I'd like at the nipple. The durability remains to be seen, but the build was much better and easier. I suspect DT Swiss gets it right with the 440.

qqy

Good clyde rims: Kinlin XR300, Velocity Deep Vs, Mavic CXPxx, etc.

bigfred 

I never intended to imply that OPs made "durable clyde training rims". They were, however, for quite a while the go to "all around rim" for those who insisted on having a single wheel to both train and compete on. In this regard they did build a pretty decent reputation in the late '90s through early '00s. It wasn't until around '06-'08 that they started to suffer cracking issues that severly degraded that reputation. With regard to milage before breaking spokes: I wouldn't reference 10,000 "clicks" (regardless of whether those are metric km clicks or imperial mile clicks) as actually being very much at all. The 585s I built up last year are in excess of 14,000km without any maintenance beyond a tension check at their one year anniversary and I expect to get at least double that out of them without breaking any spokes. That's what having carefully tension equalized spokes on a suitably heavy rim should yield.

Sure, V section rims are stiffer and more robust than their box section counterparts. But, a DTSwiss 440 is not a deep V rim.

A few of the guys who post in the clyde forum seem to have reported that: While the assymetric rims provide a better DS/NDS tension distribution, they suffer from the overhanging/cantilevered load of the rim not being supported in it's center. They subsequently questioned whether they saw any increase in rim longevity in comparison to if they had built up the wheel with a symetric version of the same light rim. I haven't got a dog in this fight. The only assymetric rims in the garage are on one of Mrs. Fred's bikes. She easily fits within the standard bell curve for which racing bicycles are designed and is anything but hard on equipment. So, not a very good test. The few friends who have brought assymetric rims to my garage have of course had issues with them, or they wouldn't have been bringing them over. So, also not a good test.

There ya' go. And you didn't put the DTSwiss 440 at the front of that list? I'm also not so sure about the 465grm XR300 being a good clyde rim. I read a few wheelbuilders who would steer a clyde away from that rim, but, don't have any personal experience with them whatsoever.

We might also add the 475grm HED Belgium C2 to that list. It'll be interesting to hear how the 450grm Pacenti SL23s hold up for the clydes that are building with them. I would use either of these two before I would select the 440s. But, interestingly enough (at least to me) I can't tell you why. Because they represent more of a V profile and less of a tradiontal trapezoidal box section I suppose. But, these are certainly starting to more closely resemble "racing" rims instead of "training" rims.

bigfred 

Here's a link to a rim comparison that Fair Wheel wrote up on rims in the sub 500grm class:

https://fairwheelbikes.com/c/forums/t...3-rim-roundup/

I'ld put the the Deep Vs and 585s in an entirely heavier duty category.

qqy

I've cracked OPs in '00 and '06. Never had much faith in them for bigger riders. The extrusions, materials, and design hasn't changed in a long time. I've built up a many wheels over the years so my advice is based on my firsthand experience, nothing more. I wouldn't equate the weight of the rim to the strength necessarily - many <500g rims can fit someone <250 until the bead blows out if they're built right. And I've seen many heavy rims (weinmann, alex, joytech) fail. Those Kinlins are ROCK solid - the sets I've built up have been staggering. One messenger beat them up for three years till a cab took out the bike. It was like 8K+ on NYC streets with hardly any truing necessary. I have two sets of XR270s that may outlast my CXP33s. Likewise I have a lot of faith in DT Swiss based on my own 465 rims, which have endured CX races, gravel rides, and a ton of general abuse under my considerable load. While they may not work for you, I think they'll suit but the OP and his bike well.

Clipped_in

With all of the talk about Kinlin rims in this thread, I'm surprised there hasn't been more love given for the XC-279. IMO it is one of the best (generally speaking) rim selections for bigger guys. And with Ultegra 6800 hubs laced 32-3x are gonna be pretty bombproof.

canam73

I tried suggesting it earlier. But it started sounding like it might be a tight fit in the OP's frame. I have no experience with Cervelo so I left it alone.

But I agree with you on it. I have built 2 sets of wheels with it and all four rims were very round and laterally true out of the box. And the brake track is deeper than the other Kinlins I have built and very smooth at the joint. For me, it is the ideal rim for a trainer wheelset. If the op wanted something fancier the H+, Pascenti and HED are all nice rims too. But I like that the Kinlin is deeper than the rest, similar to the older HED.

chuck r

I weigh about 230, and ride the new dt440 rims built with dt spokes and dt brass nipples. I use campy hubs. 32 spokes front and rear, 3x. I love these wheels. With tires and 10speed cassette the whole package weighs 2670 grams ready to ride.
chuck

Axiom

Are you building them out of necessity, or is it budget related? If it's the latter then you're better of buying a pair of used-but-low-mile wheels of eBay. I just purchased a set of Mavix Open Pro/Ultegra - $186 for the pair and are amazing. Although the silent hubs are going to take some getting used to. The last set of wheels I owned were very loud.

jcoogs

More out of necessity. i'm currently on Fulcrum 5's with 20f/24R and when I decend at high speeds i just feel they are a bit unstable at my weight, #235 now.

jcoogs

Thanks for all the replies and info. I've decided on ultegra 6800 hubs. Rims will be HED Belgium C2 32h 3X. I'm still deciding on the spokes was going with the DT Comp's black but now leaning towards the Aero Comps with brass pro lock nipples. The hubs are on BO till towards the end of Feb though. I'll post pics when the build is complete by my LBS. I hope the BO date doesn't get pushed out any further.

canam73

Those should spin fast and true for you for a long time. Enjoy!

RobbieTunes

A friend just finished building a set with Ultegra 6500 hubs (NOS), DT Swiss double-butted spokes and the 585 wheels.
Cost was the main factor with free hubs, and the build labor was very reasonable.

Super smooth, and the Ultegra's are ball bearing, will last a long time, and the bike is full 9-sp Ultegra, anyway (80's steel Tommaso).
They look great, and he's relegated his Aksium Race set to backup status. Weight difference is negligible and he's very happy w/the rims.
He's about 5'10 and goes 190 of solid muscle, and they handle everything he needs to do, smoothly.