sloppy12

I think you nail it here. this genere pretty much has to stem from the local terrain/people or its not gonna work. it makes the most sense to just build a bin bike go out and party. Locally I was thinking yeah we do this in the summer on fat bikes and plus stuff(well and some of us will ride gravel bikes). We will go ride all day drink beers, hit roads, break in new trails, walk, drink beers, ride threw creaks drainage tunnels, old factories, single track, pump track, skate park. the best bikes are just ones that are super reliable super simple and just don't matter. I dont think a big OEM can build a bike for this kind of riding, surlys are pretty popular and are probably the closest thing off the shelf..

Kapusta

I think you pretty much nailed Surly’s target market with that description.

You could get sponsored.

Kapusta

I disagree that “MTB” is meaningless. It basically mean off-road. It is a broad term. But there are plenty of more specific terms to narrow it from there.

I do think “gravel” tries to cover too much, though. You get everything from fat tired road bikes to drop bar MTBs, and there has not really been much accepted nomenclature to differentiate.

prj71

Amen!!!

I have no yearning desire to go back and ride my Ross Mt. Hood anytime soon.

Rolla

Yes, but the meanings of some of those more specific terms are less than apparent, like "Downcountry" and "Trail." I remember "All Mountain" and "Freeride" bikes, but I couldn't tell you the difference...

veganbikes

They will keep coming up with names for everything I will keep just enjoying bikes no matter what the silly names or maybe not silly names they come up with.

Kapusta

Yes these terms can be hard to keep up with, but they reflect they reflect the constantly changing and evolving MTB trends. And they do actually have meanings in the mtb world.

”Downcountry” seemed like a useless distinction to me at first, but made more sense the more I understood what is happening geometry wise with new mtbs. Many XC race bikes have retained more traditional geometry. I think people wanted a term for an XC bike that has a more progressive geo than what is being marketed for XC racing.

mstateglfr 

Your summary of the article, or interpretation of what they maybe meant, is 10x better than the article itself.
Its common in cycling for categories change in meaning and often lose effectiveness as they become popular.

- Touring bikes were popular, then the fell out of favor and that term elicited old white men carrying kitchen sinks. Bikepacking then rose in popularity, even though the setup is not nearly as convenient and you saw panniers creep back into the discussion since they actually make sense. Meanwhile, you have offroad adventure bikepacking where the actual bikepacking gear makes the most sense, but that is this little niche of a niche and it gets talked about more because its the super cool stuff that most dream of.
- Endurance bikes were popular, then fell out of favor because I dont know why. They then popped back up in popularity only they now have even wider tires and disc brakes.
- Gravel bikes grew in popularity, and then brands started going in all sorts of directions when it comes to geometry, which has largely made 'gravel bike' a very general and useless description. Yet it is descriptive enough to let the listener know it isnt an MTB and it isnt a paved road bike...so is it a useless description?



'Drop bar adventure bike' and 'flat bar adventure bike' are commonly used terms, based on what I read. 'Flat bar bikepacking bike' is another.
Sure, calling something a mountain bike is pretty generic at this point since it could mean some super slack progressive 65degree HTA enduro bike or it could mean a 70degree rigid 29er single speed thats ridden in twisty flat river bottoms.
Call that last example an ATB, why not? It will describe things just as clearly and just as confusingly as calling it an MTB.

Rolla

Agreed, and I'm on board with terms that actually reflect the intended use of a given bike. I'm just not sure every geometry tweak warrants a new category; sometimes the various distinctions muddy the water more than they clarify it.

Germany_chris

If you read the comments most are talking about bike that you can just head to the woods in and maybe spend a night or two camping. A basic rigid MTB/ATB is all you need

2old

I like the look immensely, but as some above, it's not practical at this time. IMO, women have the right idea by naming their bikes endearingly. Personally, I don't mind if someone calls my bike(s) Fred (or whatever).

70sSanO

The big difference is that there is a lot more mountain in a mountain bike these days than the 80's.

But if someone is riding older trails/fire roads, older designs work as well, maybe better.

John

prj71

True. Back in the 80's I didn't have trails to ride. It was mostly old fire roads and logging roads and every once in a while a buffed out single track trail created by the US Forest Service.

Rdmonster69

I thought the same and really believe that "Downcountry" is just another word for the "short travel trail" bike. I feel like short travel full suspension is the way to go for a more do it all bike than a true XC bike.

If I had the loot I would have 1 of every kind because I am a two wheeled junkie. Bikes and motorcycles but I am down for just about anything that has two wheels and turns me on LOL.

Kapusta

When I first heard the term Downcountry I thought it was a musical genre.

I think “downcountry” and “short travel trail” probably mean mostly the same thing. It will be interesting to see which one persists.

70sSanO

I think Downcountry was chosen because Highcountry, Lowcountry, and Backcountry were taken centuries ago. Incountry and Outcountry are also being used by the Government.

Personally I would have chosen Upcountry, despite being just as old, but it is has a Canned Heat quality that just makes you want to ride off somewhere far away.

John

tankist

If you get a lot of flats caused by small punctures then yes, tubeless can save you. In my area, super rich SF Bay Area where they cannot afford to clean the roads, me and my friends would get flats about every week or two. With tubeless maybe once in half year a bigger hole that requires a Dynaplug. Otherwise small punctures are healed automatically by sealant.

prj71

Agree with this. Down country is also coupled with a slacker ~66 degree HTA and a steeper 75-76 degree STA.

Cross Country will have a steeper HTA.

Rolla

If by "the experience," you mean the simple freedom and joy of rolling along on a sweet piece of trail, then no; that's the same as it ever was.

But if by "the experience" you mean cleaning technical sections, carving steep off-camber turns, and dropping ledges with confidence and speed, then yes, technological progress has by-and-large improved it. Some of the little things like reduced chain slap, a simplified drivetrain, adjustable seat height, and more predictable steering certainly enhance my enjoyment of riding.

27 years is a long time to ignore the maturation of the bike -- especially the mountain bike. I'm as retro-grouchy as anyone, but you'll pry my dropper post and hydro discs from my cold, dead hands.

Nirvana? No -- but if you enjoy more comfort, better traction, and less weight, you'd probably like it.

cyclezen

Certainly something - 'good' can be debated.
A guy, 'marketing' his schtick, making or wanting to make a business in his segment...
so what could he do, to cement his stake - A Manifesto ! Brilliant !
Quote: "Somehow, off-road cycling enthusiasts got stuck with two terms to describe a broad range of bicycles that cover a variety of disciplines. We think it’s about time the cycling community reclaimed the term ATB—All Terrain Bicycle—to describe some of them. In this opinion piece, we ask why and examine the history and future of the term. Read it here, along with a list of bikes that fit this mold and what we’d like to see…"
so, right behind this he sticks (photoshop) his idea of an ALL TERRAIN, do it all Bike - single speed, all funked out with his Kitty Litter container and a water bottle cage on the fork. It's missing Queequeg nose and earlobe rings, full body and facial tattoos.
Right... ATB...
The rest is all about trying to gather/herd his own tribe of skinny jeans, fixie converts to bikepacking.com
Now there's absolutely nothing wrong with bikepacking (or touring) - and power to him.
But then he goes on with comments here and there - many of which are contradictory to the basis he espouses.
Welcomes the popularity of 'gravel bikes', but then knocks them for not 'being true to spirit' WTF? Most gravel bikes I see are way more 'ATB' than the single speed he headlines with.
Fat tires and funk don't constitute a do-it-all-terrain bike.
goes on with his wish list of things the Manus should be payin attention to: more droppers, especially 27.2, 150 & 170 droppers Really? outside of mtb enduro frames, what other frames can take a 150 or 170 dropper ??? certainly not his standard-bearer at the top of his 'Manifesto' LOL !!!!!!
'More ATB Tires" which he calls 'semi-slick mtb tire genres" ??? really, for ALL TERRAIN ??? , ALL TA and BOOST ! so ATB is now gonna be at least a $1500 entry point? (if you;re lucky...)
his list is a frenetic this and that, with almost no sense in reality
he needs to back away from whatever he's smokin and get out of the cabin more...
Thank the Universe that he's not leading the charge, and that bikes are varied, accessible and a wide variety of choice for a wide variety of tastes and uses.
Bikes good for varied use have been here long before he was born and will be here long after he gets a clue.
Ride On
Yuri

PeteHski

It's a bit like skis. So much specificity in the market these days. Back in the mid 80s you had 3 choices of ski 1. Slalom 2. GS 3. Recreational/beginner. That was it and while it made your choice as a consumer very simple, it was also very limiting. I think the same thing was true of bikes in those days. There really was not a lot of choice and you just had to make do with the handful of very limited options available. Today we are totally spoilt for choice. Whatever bike combination we can dream of is available somewhere in the market. The naming of it doesn't really matter. What matters is choosing the right bike for whatever sort of riding you prefer. Same with skis. Life is good if you know what you are looking for.

cyclezen

Not just skis, every possible area has the same diversification. Autos, Motos, Phones, everything...

Rolla

Either you read something I didn't, or you've got an axe to grind. Weird take, either way.

Paul Barnard

Upgrade? I thought we were brethren until you used that word. Please tell me that you really intended to use the word "change."

cyclezen

No axe, but opinion, especially when 'marketing' becomes a platform/soapbox.
I did consider not using my own imagery to push my point, knowing there would be others who wouldn;t get it.
There is a blurring between 'marketing' of 'form/function' blurring into 'fashion'. All areas are affected by this. Especially the 'recreation/sports/lifestyle' markets.
No disrepsct to 'fashion', but when it's pushed into actual 'function' - that really needs to be noted.
I'm fine with fashion (skinny jeans), but blurring into function greatly is a danger of misappropriation.
Author chose to stand his soapbox on that 1st image SInglespeed - purely for impact. and create 'What does he mean,what is he getting into?
This choice, instead of most of the other images he then uses for ATB bikes, is the draw to his Manifesto.
Had he chosen a different bike, would the reader/possible convert/disciple be as intrigued ?
ie, replace that SS with one of his other bikes - this, from just a bit further down.

Would he have gotten the same curiosity/response ?
or just a yawn...
again, assuming that many wouldn;t be able to imagine something different.
Then he goes into his concept of bike history, certainly stilted to his view - his opinion.
OK, fine.
I gave mine ...
He's worried that MTB and GRAVEL are too broad and thereby limiting - others have clearly noted that within MTB there are many obvious demarcations, some problematic, others clearly being understood and helpful in the mtb conversation.
And that ATB is being clearly misunderstood...
Maybe instead of a soapbox, he could have helped clarify how bikepacking fits - because, to me, ATB means a much larger window than just bikepacking?
It seems as he moved further into his manifesto, he realized that All Terrain Bike is pretty damn broad, and trying to Define ATB is pretty damn hard. LOL!
not so?
I'm good with every form of 'bicycle', even though I might not have an interest in any/all areas of use. A simple machine which anyone can mold into their own concept, and diversity of product and parts is a hallmark of the bicycle's endurance.

Ride On
Yuri