brainmathew

Hello All,

In 2011 I purchased a steel Bianchi Vigorelli with a 5600 series Shimano 105 group set, with Open Pro Rims and Ultegra Hubs and an Ultegra rear derailleur. I haven't ridden much in the last 5 years due to having kids, etc. I foresee myself getting back on the bike more in the near future, and this anticipation has gotten my mind spinning with upgrades. But, with most modern groups being 11/12 speed, there are some challenges. If I ride the bike as is, it works well, and is fun. I do not like how the crank set looks, but looks aren't everything. On the other hand, forums like this exist because people like to nerd out about ways to spend money for marginal gains and without the backing of pure logic. My questions lie around how much have components improved in the past 10-12 years? Will a full group upgrade be worth it? Will I spend the money and be disappointing? What can I upgrade to get the best bang for my buck as far as improved feel, precision, robustness? Weight savings is good, but a lower priority, as purchasing a new bike would give me much more bang for my buck there. I will likely wait a few years there, as this bike has some sentimental value.
My first thought was to buy new wheels and upgrade to Ultegra R8000 (11speed, non DI). After more research, I found I could buy a machined 11 speed cassette and use it on my rear wheel. Then I started thinking, is it better to stay with 10 speed setup, and upgrade the crank and front 105 derailleur? At this point, I am not sure what the best route would be, as I do not have a logical destination, except wanting to upgrade a bike that I like with more modern kit.

Thanks for your feedback/recommendations. BTW, I live in Seattle where it is fairly hilly, am in my late 30s, and enjoy spirited rides and climbing but do not race.

Rolla

I wouldn't be in a hurry to throw money at an old bike that you generally like as it is. Half measures like replacing the cranks or wheels will give you temporary satisfaction, but a few new components aren't going to transform the riding experience that much.

Personally, I'd make do with what you've got until you're ready to get a new bike; at that point you'll fully realize and enjoy the benefits of a modern drivetrain, brakes, wheels, and frameset, all working together.

Camilo

This may or may not help: Between my wife and I we have three 10 speed, rim brake bikes: Sram Force and Red and Shimano Ultegra. They work perfectly and I have absolutely no upgradeitis, at least for those things. I also have (temporarily on loan) a bike with an older Ultegra 9 speed group that is still going strong. Like it fine, no upgradeitis there either.

We also have new-ish 12 speed Sram AXS ETap with hydro discs. That's an apples to oranges comparison with the 10 speed rim brakes, but other than the AXS bikes are "gravel" (bigger tires), they are no more fun to ride than any of the 9 or 10 speeds, assuming the bikes are ridden within their particular purpose (road bikes: roads, gravel bikes, rougher stuff).

People rave about modern drive trains and especially about the hydraulic discs. My opinion of each is "meh". Drive train "improvements" will be marginal at best, but if it's fun for you (I've done the same), go for it.

BUT.... Depending on your wheels, I personally would upgrade wheels before a perfectly functional 105 10 speed group. You can move the upgraded wheels over to a whole new bike which you'll probably get if you really enjoy riding after the 5 year hiatus. And the money you saved by not "upgrading" the group will help with that too.

brainmathew

Thanks, Rolla. Maybe better to get new chain rings, casette, bar table, cables and see how much I ride.

brainmathew

Thanks for the perspective, Camilo. I think I know I cannot afford to get something new that I would like at this time, and also am not super excited by something very different than what I have, so have a bit of up-gradeitis to bring the bike to the modern times, but it sounds like the experience would be minimally different (not the case for my wallet), and really the biggest step would be lighter (or maybe more aero) wheels. Thanks again.

jolly_codger

Short answer: there has not been any significant improvement that the average rider can detect. I too am still using a first generation, 9 speed Dura Ace drive train on my 20 year old titanium frame and i will guaran-damn-tee you that I wouldn't be any faster or a better climber if you gave me a 12 speed wunder- bike with helium filled tires. Go ride, have a blast, get into shape, and replace/upgrade things as they wear out or break. Same goes for wheels; you aren't going to notice or be faster if your front wheel is now 100 g lighter (any improvement is psychological).
John
PS maybe I misunderstood what you wrote, but you can't go to 11 speeds with just a cassette; you need new shifters, rear derailleur & a new chain.

msu2001la

Ultegra R8000 is a great drivetrain. If you enjoy tinkering with bikes and can get your hands on a groupset, it would be a fun project. This isn't really much of a performance upgrade, but It'll be a few hundred grams lighter and 11sp shifts a tiny bit faster than 10sp, and has a bit tighter gear spacing.

Personally if I had a steel Bianchi and was considering a new groupset, I'd be shopping for Campagnolo stuff. I'd also consider a new wheelset and put some high performance road tires on it (as wide as will fit).

icemilkcoffee 

Going from mechanical shifting to Di2 shifting is a big upgrade. Going from rim brake to disk brakes is a big upgrade. Going from a mechanical 10 speed to a mechanical 11 speed is hardly an upgrade. In fact it's probably a downgrade, because you have to trim more with the wider 11sp hub. Likewise going from rim brake to slightly newer rim brake- not an upgrade.
Lighter, more aero wheels, on the other hand, is always an upgrade though.

Iride01 

Get a power meter or a good GPS/cyclometer.

If your 10 speed is in decent running shape, then putting a 11 speed group on it won't do much at all.

If you don't have the range of gearing you need for the hilly conditions you might ride, then you might consider upgrading everything to 11 speed or more. Though it'll be a cheaper fix if you stay 10 speed.

IMO, A new bike will be better all around upgrade unless you are just hung up on the looks of the old bike.

Kapusta

Your drivetrain is the last thing I would think about upgrading.

Best bang for the buck is likely tires. Nicer bars also make a real difference IMO and are transferable to a new bike.

alcjphil

One of the problems with your generation Shimano 10 speed components is that upgrading to 11 speed is pretty much an all or nothing proposition. 10 speed derailleurs(except for current Tiagra) won't work with 11 speed shifters. Your current brake callipers won't work well with 11 speed shift/brake levers either. Your wheel will only accept a couple of 11 speed cassette sizes. Your cranks would probably be fine, but you don't seem to like them much anyway.
New wheels make sense, but if you upgrade to a new bike in a few years it will probably have disc brakes and thru axles, so the wheels couldn't be transferred.
I would look at basics, new tires (they have improved), new chain, a general overhaul of all bearings, new bar tape and cables, brake pads, maybe a spiffy new pair of shoes and pedals.
As far as I know, Shimano road 12 speed is disc brake only

cyclist2000

I read this and I normally would only upgrade when necessary. On the other hand, if you don't like the way the bike looks and new parts will make you appreciate the bike and ride it more, then go for it.
The idea is to ride and enjoy the ride. If you don't feel comfortable with it's comfort or looks then you wouldn't ride it.

msu2001la

It won't surprise me if future releases are disc brake only, but there are rim brake versions of Shimano Ultegra R8100 and DA R9200 12sp.
It's all electronic Di2-only, no mechanical.

datlas 

Put some new 25mm (or 28 if they will fit) performance tires like Continental GP50000s and ride it as is for now. Don't forget to drop your PSI to 75-85 with the wider tires.

If you are really doing well, next year buy a whole new bike and relegate this one to backup/rain bike.

rekmeyata

I nerd out on how to save money, not how to spend it!

Having said that, I would ride the 105 stuff till it breaks or wears out, then upgrade to Ultegra piece by piece when needed, not as an entire groupset.

The new 105 stuff looks like the Ultegra, which looks like the DA, so you won't be gaining anything in looks. In fact, every company has gone to crappy looking black stuff, so it won't matter what other company you go with they'll look the same. They made a lot of different looking 105 5600 series cranksets so I have no way to tell what yours looks like and why you don't like it.

No 10 or 12 years things didn't change that much except for adding a gear or two. I ride a bike to work made in 1984, talk about being outdated, but it rides just fine, and works just fine now that I changed the derailleurs from the crappy Suntour ARX to the far better Superbe. I also have my weekend road bike that was made in 2013, rides just fine, no worry about the technology, and that is 105 by the way, like you I opted for the Ultegra rear derailleur when I bought the bike new.

The other thing is that the older stuff is more robust than the newest stuff, so your 105 will outlast newer stuff, with rare exceptions of something engineered thought to be better but turned into a pile of mechanical garbage like the DA briftors from around 2013 that made the cables break frequently.

Anyway, I'm of the crowd not to spend a dime except for upkeep.

alcjphil

I looked at the Shimano website and do not see a rim brake version of the new 12 speed shift levers

datlas 

Because they don’t make one, at least as of now. Rim brake is orphaned, at least for the higher end groups. Sad!

edit: I do believe you can try to bodge 12 speed Di2 with rim brakes by using the previous generation 11 speed shifters and fully wired. It does not look like they will be supporting rim brakes in the future. Same thing for the higher end SRAM groups too. I imagine rim brakes will be supported on mid-level (105, Tiagra) groups for the forseeable future.

seypat

Just my opinion, but newer group sets aren't getting more attractive. Just the opposite.

biker128pedal

Ride it and save for a new bike. Upgrades? Like a few times above. Tires. Carbon wheels only if you can get a used pair of tubeless ready on the cheap. No use spending big bucks on a wheel set you can’t use on a new ride with disc brakes. Since you have not ridden much in five years. New bar tape, cables and housings, and may be a new seat. Then before this a new kit and shoes. Then your said hills. New chain and cassette. For the cassette see if you can fit a wider range for easier climbing if needed.

Kapusta

Unless you want to run larger tires than this frame will clear, I see little reason to get a new bike. (Disclaimer: I say this as someone who will never run anything smaller than 32s at the bare minimum).

If you want to go with a bigger upgrade than just tires and bars like I mention above, consider a bling set of wheels. If you get one with hubs that are convertible to more modern axle standards, then you can most likely use them on your next bike when if/when you do get one.

msu2001la

https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/produ...T-R9250-R.html

https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/produ...T-R8150-R.html

msu2001la

???
There are rim brake versions of 12sp Di2 for Ultegra and Dura Ace. See links above. Every press release I saw last summer when these new groupsets were released talked about this.Links to Shimano website are above.

It might be difficult to buy these groupsets in a store (due to supply chain problems) but Shimano has not “orphaned” rim brakes quite yet.

datlas 

Are you sure? I researched this THOROUGHLY when the new 12 speed groupsets were released. My understanding is they got rid of cable shifting and the new Di2 semi-wireless shifters were only supporting disc brakes. They said you could get previous generation 11 speed Di2 shifters and use them with the new groupset, but that is wired and a bit of a bodge TBH.

If they are actually making (semi-) wireless 12 speed Di2 shifters that support rim brakes, that would be great to hear but I don't think they are.

msu2001la

Links to Shimano products you describe are above. DI2, 12 speed, rim brake.

datlas 

Got it. I believe that was not included in the news release when the new 12 speed groupsets were launched.

Note that they are NOT supporting the semi-wireless shifting with a rim brake, but if you don't mind wired they are supporting that.