dnuzzomueller

So after having pulled apart numerous brifters (STI, Ergopower, and SRAM) I have been constantly wondering something about Ergopower shifters. Since the mechanism that they work on seems to more or less just use a ratcheting system with the G-springs rather then a pawl, I have wondered if it would be in theory possible to create a customized Campagnolo index gear that would act like a friction shifter rather then an indexed shifter.

I dont know if anyone has really tried this, or heard of it before. My thought would be to take either a 9 speed or 8 speed gear and then meticulously grind extra "indexes" in between each of the normal indexes.

Might even be something I try when I get around to it, merely as a proof of concept, but does anyone have input on this? Perhaps the new grooves will be too shallow to hold the G springs securely in place? I dunno.

HillRider

Campy's higher line front shifting Ergos sort of do what you describe. They don't index (i.e. one click shifts from one gear to the next) so much as ratchet in small steps. It takes three to four "clicks' to shift from the big to the small chainring and you have a number of trim positions to choose from.

AEO

pick up some campy ultrashifts.

I still need to find a thumb piece for my right veloce ultrashift lever.

dnuzzomueller

I realize how the left hand brifter works, thing is that they both are essentially the same thing left and right. The ones that were indexed I believe had the escape mechanism that you couldn't really rebuild like older and ultrashift mechanisms. I am more curious in giving a rear shifter enough "micro-ratchets" in order to make it operate like a friction shifter rather then an indexed shifter.

ultraman6970

There is this company that sells regular brake levers with regular friction down tube shifters attached to them, I think you should check those ones because is like the stuff u are looking for, These ones are built for CX in specific because the built is cleaner than using brifters and I totally agree.

DaveSSS 

There would not be enough room to machine more indents that would properly engage the g-spring. I see no purpose in it. A best you'd create a shifter with twice as many clicks so the chain would sit half way between two cogs and not in alignment with either one.

The left side, pre-2009 ergo levers have 12 clicks, but the amount of cable pull, per click is large. As few as three are needed for a double FD, so all you have is one position for the big ring, one to trim the FD to the left and one position for the little ring. 7 of the 12 clicks are used for a triple FD. The other five have never served any purpose.

The new ultrashift levers only have 6 clicks and have just enough cable pull to operate a triple FD. Only 3 clicks are needed to operate a double FD.

fietsbob

I'd start out from scratch, making a ratcheted wheel from scratch,

in your theoretical machine shop.
machine the part then harden it thru heat treatment and Quenching.

mmmdonuts

I've often wondered the same thing but after looking at the guts of some Campy shifters some friction discs might be better than machining the stops. Sort of a mini-clutch. Not an easy thing to do if possible at all.

fietsbob

just , as someone who has been merrily running touring rigs with ratchet bar ends
for decades.
once even 7 speed clusters began to be made only in a hyperglide tooth profile.

the same features that allowed early shifting, made the ghost shifting happen too.

full height teeth , took a trifle over-shifting, but stayed in the chosen gear..

pack in 3 more cogs in the same space, and friction cog finding takes a steady hand..

HillRider

Yeah, but those "ratchets" only worked in one direction and were intended to equalize the operating force against the derailleur's spring with the friction resistance in the other direction. They were not used as position the derailleur.

neurocop

Exactly! This is really the difference between a continuously variable (analog) and stepped (or quantum) device. In terms of shifters, the friction sort are considered to be continuously variable/analog devices, and the "indexed" sort are stepped/quantum devices. The Ergo's are something in between, not exactly continuous but with really small steps.

DaveSSS 

Ergos don't have really small steps. For the RD, they have one step for each gear. In the front there are three positions needed for a double FD. That's not really small steps. There are NOT several trims positions to choose from. You only need one.

The indexed bar ends I've owned worked just like an indexed down tube shifter - one click for each cog, up or down. A dial could be turned to eliminate the indexing.