Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Is this a safe way to add water bottle mounts?

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Is this a safe way to add water bottle mounts?

Old 08-10-22, 10:32 PM
  #76  
Manny66 
Senior Member
 
Manny66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Whittier
Posts: 626

Bikes: 1973 Colnago Super, 1977 Windsor Profesional,1977 Mondia Special, Automoto , Pinarello Gavia TSX,Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra,Eddy Merckx EMX-5 ,Basso Gap, 1982 Moser SL,Concorde TSX,Concorde TVT, LOOK 486,Vitus 979 KAS.Diamant SLX,60's Meteor

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Liked 334 Times in 163 Posts
I would rather use Rivnuts than any ugly cumbersome clamp any day. Rivnuts when installed correctly work great. Ive used them on many pieces of equipment without issues,and yes, Even on a couple of bike frames.

Ive brazed on a few water bottle bosses when the frame is going to be completely repainted, if it is not ,,Rivnuts are completely fine to use.
Manny66 is offline  
Likes For Manny66:
Old 08-10-22, 11:10 PM
  #77  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 14,665

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 116 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8691 Post(s)
Liked 5,283 Times in 3,053 Posts
Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
Every time I've seen this done, always one hole is out of line with the other.
Five bucks says that those rivnuts will become loose within 10 years and make removing the bottle cage a Dremel affair.
-Kurt
10 years? That's longer than many bikes here even stay in one's possession.
Seems like a win.

I drilled out a frozen river that was loose in a cannondale frame. Installing a new one was simple, it took 2min and a couple of spare nuts/bolts to tighten.
I will be haply to not think about it for the next decade. I will be happy if I still have the frame a decade from now, truthfully.
mstateglfr is offline  
Likes For mstateglfr:
Old 08-11-22, 06:47 AM
  #78  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 27,119

Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 84 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1768 Post(s)
Liked 2,343 Times in 1,296 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
10 years? That's longer than many bikes here even stay in one's possession.
Seems like a win.

I drilled out a frozen river that was loose in a cannondale frame. Installing a new one was simple, it took 2min and a couple of spare nuts/bolts to tighten.
I will be haply to not think about it for the next decade. I will be happy if I still have the frame a decade from now, truthfully.
At least three of mine have been with me for about 15 years now. I like things to last, and once I've cleaned something up, the most I want to deal with are tire swaps and occasional polishing. Loose rivnuts a decade down the road? No thanks.

Either way, I prefer not to be the one to create a frame modification headache that might be regretted by a future owner, if I can help it.

Case in point, here's a Raleigh Super Grand Prix that I was forced to pick up in a lot from the LBS to get a Professional frame. Looks half decent...



...until you get to the water bottle cage carnage:



Yes, these were most definitely not in line. Someone tapped right through the tubing. In retrospect, grinding the lower hole larger and to the left might have worked to allow a rivnut to be installed centered in the frame.

I'm not saying one shouldn't do what they want to do with their own bike, but anyone not fully intending to live with the modification should at least consider the future owner before committing to this.

-Kurt
__________________







cudak888 is offline  
Likes For cudak888:
Old 08-11-22, 10:17 AM
  #79  
smontanaro 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Evanston, IL
Posts: 5,086

Bikes: many

Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1121 Post(s)
Liked 826 Times in 452 Posts
Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
Either way, I prefer not to be the one to create a frame modification headache that might be regretted by a future owner, if I can help it.
This. I'm no stickler for originality, but I draw the line at making irreversible frame modifications, especially to "nice" bikes. Peugeot UO-8? Maybe, if no other option is available. PX-10? Nope. My Frejus or Automoto? No way.
__________________
Contact me to help Doug Fattic's colleagues in Ukraine

smontanaro is offline  
Likes For smontanaro:
Old 08-11-22, 12:39 PM
  #80  
Brad L
Full Member
 
Brad L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Southeast TX
Posts: 320

Bikes: 1947 Ciclo Piave, 1969 Colnago Super, 1972 Legnano Olimpiade Record Specialissima, 1980 Mercian Vincitore, 1983 Gitane Interclub, 1985 Peugeot PGN10, 1989 Vitus 979, 1990 Specialized Sirrus, 2001 Colnago Dream B-Stay, 2007 Trek 1000 SL

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 117 Post(s)
Liked 307 Times in 125 Posts
Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post

Either way, I prefer not to be the one to create a frame modification headache that might be regretted by a future owner, if I can help it.

-Kurt
This is what Im dealing with on my 1947 Ciclo Piave. Someone added cable guides and bottle cage bosses sometime in its past. The cable guides can be easily removed, but my framebuilder friend says Id need to replace the downtube to remove the bosses. Of course, then Id need to rechrome the head lugs. These mods definitely created a lot of work for me.
Brad L is offline  
Likes For Brad L:
Old 08-11-22, 12:44 PM
  #81  
Brad L
Full Member
 
Brad L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Southeast TX
Posts: 320

Bikes: 1947 Ciclo Piave, 1969 Colnago Super, 1972 Legnano Olimpiade Record Specialissima, 1980 Mercian Vincitore, 1983 Gitane Interclub, 1985 Peugeot PGN10, 1989 Vitus 979, 1990 Specialized Sirrus, 2001 Colnago Dream B-Stay, 2007 Trek 1000 SL

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 117 Post(s)
Liked 307 Times in 125 Posts
IF I were to use rivnuts on a frame, Id do with the bottom bracket removed. I dont like the thought of the metal shavings getting into the bottom bracket bearings.
Brad L is offline  
Likes For Brad L:
Old 08-11-22, 03:45 PM
  #82  
gaucho777 
Senior Member
 
gaucho777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 7,217

Bikes: '72 Cilo Pacer, '72 Gitane Gran Tourisme, '72 Peugeot PX10, '73 Speedwell Ti, '74 Peugeot UE-8, '75 Peugeot PR-10L, '80 Colnago Super, '85 De Rosa Pro, '86 Look Equipe 753, '86 Look KG86, '89 Parkpre Team, '90 Parkpre Team MTB, '90 Merlin

Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 734 Post(s)
Liked 1,463 Times in 421 Posts
Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
Case in point, here's a Raleigh Super Grand Prix that I was forced to pick up in a lot from the LBS to get a Professional frame. Looks half decent...until you get to the water bottle cage carnage: Yes, these were most definitely not in line. Someone tapped right through the tubing. In retrospect, grinding the lower hole larger and to the left might have worked to allow a rivnut to be installed centered in the frame...

-Kurt
If I came across this issue with holes slightly out of alignment, I think I would try to expand the holes on the water bottle cage itself to see if I could fix the issue that way before trying to expand the frame holes.
gaucho777 is offline  
Old 08-11-22, 05:12 PM
  #83  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 27,119

Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 84 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1768 Post(s)
Liked 2,343 Times in 1,296 Posts
Originally Posted by Brad L View Post
This is what Im dealing with on my 1947 Ciclo Piave. Someone added cable guides and bottle cage bosses sometime in its past. The cable guides can be easily removed, but my framebuilder friend says Id need to replace the downtube to remove the bosses. Of course, then Id need to rechrome the head lugs. These mods definitely created a lot of work for me.
I wonder if the braze-ons could be drilled out and the DT sleeved with rings sent up the bottom bracket.

-Kurt
__________________







cudak888 is offline  
Old 08-11-22, 06:12 PM
  #84  
gaucho777 
Senior Member
 
gaucho777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 7,217

Bikes: '72 Cilo Pacer, '72 Gitane Gran Tourisme, '72 Peugeot PX10, '73 Speedwell Ti, '74 Peugeot UE-8, '75 Peugeot PR-10L, '80 Colnago Super, '85 De Rosa Pro, '86 Look Equipe 753, '86 Look KG86, '89 Parkpre Team, '90 Parkpre Team MTB, '90 Merlin

Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 734 Post(s)
Liked 1,463 Times in 421 Posts
Coincidentally, I just came upon these Elite cage brackets today which I haven't seen before. They seem a bit more elegant than some of the other options.

https://www.deporvillage.net/elite-v...e-cage-bracket


In addition, I notice they also offer a vintage-style, Eroica-branded bottle cage for the handlebar (currently on sale for $25.60):

https://www.deporvillage.net/bottle-cage-elite-eroica

gaucho777 is offline  
Likes For gaucho777:
Old 08-11-22, 06:39 PM
  #85  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 27,119

Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 84 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1768 Post(s)
Liked 2,343 Times in 1,296 Posts
That looks promising, pity that it's a 3D render and not a picture of the actual part.

I remember when some repop bottle holders ran as much as the real thing, so that L'Eroica piece isn't too bad a deal. Pity the base isn't a bit more encapsulating for bottles that aren't strictly rigid though.

-Kurt
__________________







cudak888 is offline  
Old 08-12-22, 11:50 PM
  #86  
GamblerGORD53
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Elevation 666m Edmonton Canada
Posts: 2,035

Bikes: 2013 Custom SA5w / Rohloff Tourster

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 951 Post(s)
Liked 171 Times in 140 Posts
Looking at all these other klutzy dodads, my klutz is looking more and more genius. LOL.
GamblerGORD53 is offline  
Old 08-13-22, 12:08 AM
  #87  
SurferRosa
Seor Member
 
SurferRosa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 6,141

Bikes: Old school lightweights

Mentioned: 75 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2576 Post(s)
Liked 3,557 Times in 1,893 Posts
Originally Posted by gaucho777 View Post
they also offer a vintage-style cage for the handlebar:
Damn, that's a lot of clamps.
SurferRosa is online now  
Old 08-13-22, 02:32 AM
  #88  
1simplexnut
Senior Member
 
1simplexnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 836

Bikes: 1963? Anquetil , 1973 PX10,1979 PX10,1984 PX10, VITUS 979 PX10DU,1970S ALAN,1985 PSV10,1980s PY10FC,1978 bERTIN,ALAN carbon

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 190 Post(s)
Liked 351 Times in 166 Posts
1simplexnut is offline  
Old 08-13-22, 07:46 AM
  #89  
Classtime 
Senior Member
 
Classtime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,569

Bikes: 82 Medici, 2011 Richard Sachs, 2011 Milwaukee Road

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1396 Post(s)
Liked 917 Times in 575 Posts
I like the look of those elite clamps. https://www.elite-it.com/en/products/vintage

But I dont want to interfere with Peugeot at the moment. Minoura to the rescue. Bonus is that it fits over the center of the stem and leaves the tops clear for my hands.

73 PA-10e
__________________
I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
Classtime is offline  
Old 08-13-22, 04:01 PM
  #90  
Brad L
Full Member
 
Brad L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Southeast TX
Posts: 320

Bikes: 1947 Ciclo Piave, 1969 Colnago Super, 1972 Legnano Olimpiade Record Specialissima, 1980 Mercian Vincitore, 1983 Gitane Interclub, 1985 Peugeot PGN10, 1989 Vitus 979, 1990 Specialized Sirrus, 2001 Colnago Dream B-Stay, 2007 Trek 1000 SL

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 117 Post(s)
Liked 307 Times in 125 Posts
I'm currently running this reproduction on the Piave.


Brad L is offline  
Likes For Brad L:
Old 08-13-22, 04:16 PM
  #91  
SurferRosa
Seor Member
 
SurferRosa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 6,141

Bikes: Old school lightweights

Mentioned: 75 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2576 Post(s)
Liked 3,557 Times in 1,893 Posts
Originally Posted by 1simplexnut View Post
But is it robust enough for a plastic bottle of water?
SurferRosa is online now  
Old 08-13-22, 05:10 PM
  #92  
1simplexnut
Senior Member
 
1simplexnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 836

Bikes: 1963? Anquetil , 1973 PX10,1979 PX10,1984 PX10, VITUS 979 PX10DU,1970S ALAN,1985 PSV10,1980s PY10FC,1978 bERTIN,ALAN carbon

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 190 Post(s)
Liked 351 Times in 166 Posts
Originally Posted by SurferRosa View Post
But is it robust enough for a plastic bottle of water?
. In this increasingly litigious world you can never be too careful !!
1simplexnut is offline  
Likes For 1simplexnut:
Old 08-13-22, 05:25 PM
  #93  
bulgie 
blahblahblah chrome moly
 
bulgie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,042
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 598 Post(s)
Liked 1,090 Times in 508 Posts
Originally Posted by Brad L View Post
<snip> my framebuilder friend says Id need to replace the downtube to remove the bosses. Of course, then Id need to rechrome the head lugs.
That's serious overkill. I have filled H2O boss holes several times, it was easy and reliable. The tube inevitably has a weakened spot there from tempering, but no weaker than any other spot on a bike frame that got a braze-on. I silver-brazed in a plug and then filed/sanded it flush, but it can be done rapidly enough that only a little paint is ruined, possible to just respray that one area if concours-level paint isn't needed.

Your Piave is gorgeous and well worth that concours-level paint though, so I expect you would want whatever it takes to look perfect again. But I'd advise against rechroming, that is liable to do more damage than filling the holes would.

I made the plugs with a flanged cylindrical part sized to fit the hole, just long enough to reach through the tube wall and a little more (~1 mm) for an inside fillet of silver. The flange on top is just barely there, just big enough to prevent the plug from falling through. All the flange is filed off after brazing.

The brazing must be done by someone well-versed in thinwall bike tubing, not a muffler repair shop! The filing step is equally tricky because if the file tilts to one side or the other, it can nick the tube. This is the thin unbutted part of the tube, so any file marks are to be avoided. On such a fine frame, I would use only my finest files (fine here meaning opposite of coarse) and work slowly. I have seen fairly horrible coarse file marks left in frames from even hero brands like <redacted> or <redacted> (no need to name names here!), so don't assume a framebuilder is good enough at filing. Some might be skillful, but in too much of a hurry. You want someone slow for this job!

I am not angling to to do this repair, I am retired, all my framebuilding was more than 25 years ago.

Mark B
bulgie is offline  
Likes For bulgie:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.