Seattle Forrest

​​​​​​Yeah, I read that, and again people cheat marathons with no prizes. But if I can make up a fantasy world where people are taking steroids out on the field, why can't everyone else be honest in my imaginary world?

I can't believe on a bike forum so many people are against sanctioning an athlete who was caught with a banned performance enhancing chemical in her blood. I think some folks in here are losing sight of the fact that it isn't just about this poor runner, it's everyone who was competing against her.

CliffordK

Read about Froome. Whether you like him or not, he received a temporary ban because WADA standards were based on swimmer tests without relating them to cyclists. Did he take too many puffs? We don't know.

Alberto Contador, on the other hand, was banned for trace amounts of a synthetic (not naturally occurring drug, I think).

Contador's urine apparently also contained plasticizers. Not illegal per-se, but indicative that he may have been injecting banked blood (which could have been tainted).
Both cyclists were riding again within a year.

I'm just not convinced there is enough data that has been published that Shelby Houlihan actually intended to dose herself.

asgelle

You realize CAS has not published their decision? All we've heard has come from Houlihan herself.The fact that there's any doubt when all we've heard is her side speaks volumes.

CliffordK

They have knocked her out of the 2021 Olympics. And, who knows if she'll be competitive for the 2024 Olympics.

We do have the 2022 World Athletics Championships coming to Eugene Oregon next year. Perhaps she'll be competing.

asgelle

I have a better chance of competing than she does and I'm a 60+ male with no running experience. She's been banned for four years by CAS. There's no higher court to hear an appeal.

CliffordK

I thought you just said the decision hasn't been published... or have they made up their mind, but not published it???

Or is this just a behind closed door decision made by a bunch of old codgers?

asgelle

The sentence has been released, 4 years suspension, but the decision which cites the evidence from both sides and how it was evaluated, and the reasoning behind the panel’s decision has not. This is not unusual. There is typically a delay between the sentence and the decision. And if you think CAS panelists are a bunch of old codgers, you should take a look at their CVs.

Seattle Forrest

Do they confiscate your bikes if you get caught doping?

CliffordK

Only if you get caught with an electric motor in the pit... no matter whether it is your bike.

OBoile

Bodybuilding has tested and non-tested contests. There is a massive difference in the physiques between the two. But, that is about the extent of my knowledge on that sport.
Powerlifting really doesn't have a "spotlight". It is a very small, very niche sport. (That's part of what makes cheating in it so depressing... there's no real money to be made of fame to be had, yet people still cheat.) I've posted several of my wife's (and my) contests on youtube. The one with, by far, the most views is one that happened at a bodybuilding expo.
Weightlifting is a bit different because it is an Olympic sport, so strategies like this have more of a benefit.

Rider51

Contador claimed tainted meat as well after he tested positive for clenbuterol. But the positive test was very, very, very likely because he used it to help keep or get the last bits of weight off in the weeks leading up to the Tour. He also likely assumed he would take very little out of competition he wouldn't get caught, and didn't realize how sophisticated the testing was becoming.


Froome tested positive for salbutamol, which is an asthma drug he has a TUE for, but the amount he had in his body was not realistically possible just by using his inhaler an extra time (or two) like he claimed. It's very likely he was on a very refined micro-dosing program, including ingesting this, and got caught, in a similar way Contador (and others) have. His and Sky's attorney's buried anti-doping authorities in a mountain of legal paperwork, which intimidated the UCI, who was already very worried about the reputation of the sport taking yet another hit, and losing millions of dollars, and allowed him to skate.


Landis has stated that he didn't actually use testosterone before his epic Tour stage, but it was really blood boosters. He did admit to using testosterone before, though not much, and it was speculated that the + test came from re-infused blood, which had been drawn from a time when he was on testosterone. Floyd had no thoughts on this. FWIT, I generally take Floyd at his word.


By far, BY FAR, doping tests yield false negatives, much, much, much more than false positives, which is how it should be. So if you think an athlete is clean because they were never caught, you may, or may not be deluding yourself, but it's better to give them the benefit of the doubt and have a system that does the same. If you think an athlete that tests positive is actually clean due to flawed testing, it's highly, highly unlikely. Possible? Of course, anything's possible. But likely? Not even close.

work4bike

Same topic, different drug. I never agreed with punishing athletes for marijuana in their system and don't think it should even be tested for, especially nowadays, when it's legal in many states. I especially hate the statement many have been making after Sha'Carri Richardson failed her test, saying, Rules are Rules. As if rules are beyond reproach. This rule needs to go.

OBoile

I agree the rule should be changed. It really is quite silly IMO. But, I doubt it will be any time soon since, fairly or unfairly, many countries are very strongly anti-drugs. IIRC, they only stopped testing for alcohol, which (unfairly IMO) has a much better international reputation that weed, a few years ago. The fact that weed is legal in several states is irrelevant. The "W" in WADA stands for "World" not "USA".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_cannabis

But, since it is currently a rule, it has to be enforced. Rules are rules. If you choose to participate in international sports, you have to accept the rules that come with it.

work4bike

Good Point!

work4bike

Interesting video, regardless if you believe him or not....

OBoile

Stopped watching at the part where he starts selling the gum, but from what I know, pretty much everything he said before that was true. A very high % of athletes are doping. Caffeine is definitely performance enhancing.

Seattle Forrest

I don't think marijuana is a performance enhancing drug. I understand that it can improve pain and boredom tolerance in some people which can help in endurance events. Seems like a different ballpark. Ibuprofen can make my foot hurt less, I wouldn't call that a performance enhancing drug.

canklecat

Nah, cannabis in any form -- recreational, medicinal, CBD, THC, etc. -- isn't a PED in any way that I can see. Unless being able to relax and sleep is considered a PED. CBD does help me sleep. But it makes me a bit too relaxed for workouts and bike rides.

There isn't even any consensus on it for pain relief. Some studies indicate it's a mild pain reliever in CBD form with just a small amount of THC, right around the current FDA limit. There's some speculation that the psychoactive effect from a higher concentration of THC helps folks relax, relieves anxiety and promotes sleep, which helps with healing and reduction of perceived pain.

I tried stronger THC concentrations a year or so ago before workouts and I couldn't feel any advantage or see any improvements in my data. But I didn't ride outdoors in that condition. I don't trust my equilibrium that much.

Alcohol seems to offer some benefits for workouts, probably from the carbs/sugars. But only in small amounts, for me. If I have more than one beer after a group ride before heading home I just feel lazy. But there may be something to the way the body uses carbs and sugars. There's a fairly brief sweet spot when we need to resume activity before the insulin spike. Well probably see more data soon as more pros are training with blood glucose monitors for near-real time info. Although the UCI has banned those devices during competitions, which is a shame because there's a potential wealth of data we'll never see.

Besides my prescribed thyroid meds and caffeine, the closest I get to using a PED is kratom, which I've written about in other threads on pain relief. I don't want to make outrageous claims for kratom, but in my experience it's far less risky than the nannies and ninnies in some government agencies, hyped by credulous journalists, would have us believe. It's the most effective analgesic I've tried that doesn't hinder my workouts (like prescription opiates and muscle relaxers did -- I have 'em but hate to use them because they make me feel sluggish). And it doesn't aggravate my autoimmune disorder like NSAIDs. If I take aspirin or ibuprofen, etc., too often I develop psoriasis and psoriatic arthritis symptoms. The skin between my fingers cracks almost down to the bone, and my skin elsewhere gets flaky, red and itchy. As soon as I discontinue NSAIDs the problem clears up.

I check my heart rate, BP and HRV with an app and heart rate monitor every day, including during workouts. I started using a small amount of kratom (much smaller than most kratom users report) in summer 2018 after I was hit by a car, breaking and dislocating my shoulder and re-injuring my neck. I'm confident *for myself* that it's safe *for me* and helped get me back into working out and healthy again.

I'd bet some pro cyclists are using kratom but haven't reported it or mentioned it because for now there's no testing available and, last I checked, hasn't been banned or regulated by the various doping nannies. Subject to change at the whim of the regulatory ninnies.

canklecat

Looking for Mr Buche Burrito
In which we try to find Shelby's pig offal nandrolone connection.

Reporter finds at least two possible sources. And says they're pretty tasty.

No word yet on whether said journalist failed any doping tests.

Seattle Forrest

NikolasFarrel

What a lively discussion. Let me join you. The use of steroids in professional sports is justified because a professional athlete must constantly achieve new results, otherwise, it will become uninteresting, rather than spending years to achieve their goals and consolidate their results. Nandrolone has very positive effects such as positive effects on joints, helps in weight gain. And as we know, there are people who suffer from overweight problems. Many medications have side effects, the same aspirin, and aspirin also cause death. And basically, when it comes to injectable steroids, they have found their use in veterinary medicine, as discussed in other comments. And let's face it, Arnold admitted to taking steroids while competing. But nothing supernatural happened. Arnold was a legend and still is. Once again, the support of pharmaceutical companies is justified in professional sports. And trying to ban everything you can is a waste of time and money. As long as there are competitions and records, there will be doping in any form.

CliffordK

Shelby Houlihan has fallen out of the news now that he Olympics are over. It is sad that she missed potentially her one chance to compete.

It is hard to say in her case. Nandrolone seems to be a fairly week steroid, and the inadvertent contamination argument is plausible.

I do think one should evaluate leniency for trace levels of natural food borne steroids, especially if only detected once.

As far as various sports. Bodybuilding/bodysculpting... Sure, do it if they wish. But, that becomes a slippery slope as it crosses over to weightlifting and powerlifting.

Other sports, I support the concept of everyone beginning equally with the human body. So, I'm not in favor of the concept of saying that a person can only compete if taking drugs.

And, certainly male hormones and hormone analogs being given to women should be excluded. But, even that might be reevaluated in light of the push to be transgender inclusive.

NikolasFarrel

I fully support that. But let's face it, big sports is a world of high achievement. I also agree with the opinion that you need to start with your body without steroids and squeeze out the maximum possible potential. When a person faces a threshold then resort to pharmacological support. But alas, many beginners sin by using steroids and end up losing their careers. It's like with alcohol, you get addicted and your life goes down the drain. If everything happens under the careful guidance and professional support then it is possible. But nandrolone does not complete the list of steroids used and this is a fact. They are used in boxing, wrestling, running even in chess. Steroids have come thickly into our lives. But they also help save lives.