Dakrisht

Hey all - new to the SS forum.

Been riding and building road bikes for decades but it’s time to build up a single speed.

Thoughts on Wabi framesets vs. MASH?

I know Wabi is using Reynolds tubing, unsure of MASH’s tubing but curious what you guys think.

Obviously right now it’s almost impossible to find anything anywhere, but I’m trying to work a few angles to track a down a new frameset for a new

If anything, curious to hear thoughts and recommended frameset builders.

Lazyass

Isn't the Mash an aluminum frame with track geometry? The Wabi is road geometry. That's what I would recommend, I believe they'll have more stock in Sept/Oct time frame. They posted it on their facebook.

Dakrisht

MASH is steel (can’t link a URL yet) but they’re 2021 lineup is steel.

Wabi do look nice and use Reynold 725 tubing which is solid. Will definitely keep an eye out.

TugaDude

I believe the MASH/Cinelli steel frames were mainly Columbus.

seau grateau

The steel Mash is a weird bike. They've never used high-end steel on them (Columbus Cromor or generic double butted 4130 last I checked), so the price is pretty steep in that regard. The removable canti-brake posts are a cool feature, but also honestly kind of dated at this point because CX and gravel bikes have almost entirely switched over to discs. It's a niche frame. Maybe a good choice if you're trying to do some light off-roading/tracklocross type stuff, or just want a bike with the Mash name on it.

TugaDude

MASH is not a bike model it is a brand. They have several models they've made over the years such as MASH Work, MASH Bolt are examples.

Broctoon

Correct. Most of their frame models were aluminum, during their collaboration with Cinelli. I have their Parallax from about 2015, and it's Columbus 7075. Other models might have been different alloys. The Work was steel.

Not sure if they're still making (or sourcing) their own frames now, independent from Cinelli. Maybe they now have a model just called MASH that is steel; if so, I'm not familiar with it.

Dakrisht

Looks like “MASH Steel” is all I can find with respect to a model. Website nor social media shows any model lineup which is odd. They’re certainly a niche brand with hype around them, and it seems to work. Maybe these days they’re making only one model.

No info on the type of tubing but most likely cromoly, certainly not Columbus anything or Reynolds.

I’m reading a lot of positive feedback on Wabi and people seem to love them. Reynolds 725 is a solid choice and they’re priced well. Only issue is you can’t really clear anything over a 700x32c tire so if you want to go 35-38c it’s not gonna work.

Rivendell is another brand in the rotation but a bit overpriced for their steel choices.

TugaDude

They do have a web presence and it shows 2021 model as the MASH Steel
Check out their instagram:


Here's a page on the geometry of their track bike:

https://bikeinsights.com/bikes/5bec6...t&version=2021

If I were you I'd pick up the phone and call them to eliminate any further confusion.

Lazyass

Don't fall into the huge tire fad that's exploded into the scene over the last few years unless you really need huge tires. I see no need for a road tire bigger than a 28 unless you're going to take it off paved roads. The only advantage of a bigger tire is the ability to run lower pressure without pinch flatting. But then you have a squishy tire with a lot of deflection on the road (and more rotating weight) and to me that makes the bike feel sluggish when climbing and sprinting.

But the Wabi Thunder accepts wide tires. I've thought about buying one myself because my CX bike with 28mm road tires is probably my favorite geared road bike. The geometry makes it really fun to ride. I feel like doing wheelies and bunny hopping over everything and my average speed is the same as anything else I have. I do plan to buy some Jack Brown 33.3mm road tires for it because I want to take it on some dirt paths around here.

Dakrisht

Yes and no here.

Not putting 45c tires on a single speed but for a more supple ride, a bigger tire triumphs a thinner tire.

A 32c is fine more or less and all you need for pavement, depending on the tire itself and psi. But would’ve been nice to throw some Rene Herse 38c on this for gravel.

I run 38c Pathfinder Pro’s on a Specialized Diverge Carbon at 40psi on carbon wheels and the ride is butter on tarmac and gravel.

My Bianchi Carbon with 28c Veloflex handmade tires is crispy but not as supple. Both bikes run at the same speeds, there’s no loss of rolling resistance (well, minimal) but speed is the same more or less. I can go 2-3mph faster on the Bianchi but more likely due to geo than tires. Bigger tires are just as fast as smaller tires, there’s tons of testing that proves what we thought wasn’t true. Unless you go above 40c of course.

I have classic Italian steel running 25c and it’s great but not as smooth.

Youre right, however, a 28c - 32c max is all you need for city, road. Again, depends on the type of tire and tread.

REDMASTA

The MASH steel is a nice frameset. Good luck getting one though, they only make small batches, each with different color schemes, and they sell out instantly. The recent batch you had to enter into a drawing to be given the option to buy one.

Same happened with the MASH AC-2, their aluminum frameset. Sold out before most could complete the checkout process. This is why you see neither the steel or aluminum for sale on their website, none available.

seau grateau

If big tire clearance is something you're after, I'd look at Surly as well.

Lazyass

Man this blows. I feel bad for all these companies. Wabi FB:

Update: At this point, our shipment of new bikes for September / October is on hold. The incredibly high cost of transportation (10x vs. pre-pandemic) of frames and components from Taiwan has made it impractical and unprofitable to ship them at this time.

We are exploring other options, but either way, we don't anticipate having builds available until later in the year or even early next year.
Sorry about the delays, but it is out of our hands at the moment.

Rage

The very reason I was thinking a 600 dollar used Wabi was a good deal the other day...

REDMASTA

You can find used bikes for cheap. Have a buddy in Denver who can't give away his barely used Cinelli Gazzetta. I guess people only want new?

Lazyass

Some clearance stuff just came out.

https://wabicycles.com/collections/c...l3V4uj9bABzkpE

Senrab62 

That classic is tempting, but I'm fat and that dent scares me with the thinner tubing.

Lazyass

That wouldn't bother me personally, you can hardly see it. I have an old Schwinn Paramount with one worse than that and it's been fine for countless thousands of miles.

Chester

Latest frameset uses Columbus aluminum and a carbon fork, with a very unique paint job:

https://shop.mashsf.com/mash-ac-3-frameset-scopes.html

PIFFLE

Surly toe overlap is what led me to All-City BB...

Bisexcycle

Steel bikes are almost all the same except Mash has street crit racing alu frames
I think Mash frames can clear 38c but don't quote me on that.

Except mash has some pretty sweet paint jobs, its like a candy shop of options. with each new release I've been tempted more and more to buy one ( i live in the bay)

I heard wabi is the lightest steel frame, Idk if this is true. but difference is price and looks like wabi has fat clearance which I would like.
Do you want a flashy ferrarri or vovlo, but they have the same horse power hah.

seau grateau

Good choice, I love my BB.

79pmooney

The other approach - buy an early to mid '80s sport bike (Japanese or the like; once the Japanese paved the way, virtually all the major players got on board with similar tubing. threads, fits, etc). Horizontal dropouts. All you need for a really good single speed/fix gear road bike. Good brake options, front and rear in case you ever want super climbing handles on your handlebars. (Might save your butt some day too.) If you bbuy one sized for 27" wheels, you will bet fender eyes almost certainly and have plenty of room for big 700c tires and fenders. Might need longer reach brakes. Mafac Racers are still out there, work great and expensive modern copies made. (They work great long, long past looking respectable so buying unseen is not a very risky. Quite a lot of pivot play doesn't matter and Renee Herst and others make new bushings.)

This from a guy who's ridden fixed: a Peugeot UO-8, a wonderful sport Japanese Schwinn, a mediocre Sekine, a Miyata 610 that went forever through a lot of abuse and my current ~'83 Trek 4something. And my custom Mooney with its horizontal dropouts is now fixed and a sweet ride. I ordered my custom ti fix gear with unique more horizontal than usual "road dropouts": very long and opens at the front down, not forward. The adjustability of a very long track end and joy of horizontal/vertical for wheel changes and flips.

jack pot 

Wabi Wabi Wabi