Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

Chain wax-er thread

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Chain wax-er thread

Old 09-20-21, 12:59 PM
  #26  
HTupolev
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Seattle
Posts: 4,261
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1971 Post(s)
Liked 1,297 Times in 629 Posts
Originally Posted by cyccommute
Did it actually start “screaming” or was it just a louder chain?
Yes, it started to squeak, which got worse and worse. It was a windy day, so normal healthy chain whir wasn't very audible anyway.
HTupolev is offline  
Old 09-20-21, 02:02 PM
  #27  
Maelochs
Senior Member
 
Maelochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 15,433

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 143 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7620 Post(s)
Liked 3,432 Times in 1,813 Posts
The problem with @HTupolev's anecdote is that it is an anecdote. As HTupolev says about different conditions and situations ... no way to know what this one instance means ....

Not saying it didn't happen exactly as he describes, but i am saying we don't know Why.

I use wet wax on some bikes, melted wax on others, and oil on still others. I cannot say for certain that one is markedly better than another because I would need to spend weeks doing carefully controlled test rides, using the same bike, swapping chains, riding the same routes, and hopefully in similar climactic conditions .... but then my own fitness would be an uncontrollable variable ....

To really test friction under load, one would need to be indoors, on a machine, with force carefully controlled, so that friction could be measured precisely ... and tests would need to be 1000's of km long to measure the effects on wear .... and atmospheric/environmental conditions would need to be simulated, with some kind of calibrated grit-thrower and dust-blower and rain-sprayer ..... And No one Cares that much.

The upside is we actually ride instead of doing experiments in our garages. The downside is we cannot scientifically prove our ways are better.

The lucky few simply don't give a frog, or a duck, or whatever ..... like @cyccommute, he is riding all around the continent doing whatever .... and he hasn't messed with his chain-maintenance routine in 20 years.

if it works well enough for you, it works well enough for you.

Are we done arguing about chain lube? Can we argue about socks, or waving, now?
Maelochs is offline  
Old 09-20-21, 02:25 PM
  #28  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,020
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4193 Post(s)
Liked 4,616 Times in 2,852 Posts
Originally Posted by Maelochs

To really test friction under load, one would need to be indoors, on a machine, with force carefully controlled, so that friction could be measured precisely ... and tests would need to be 1000's of km long to measure the effects on wear .... and atmospheric/environmental conditions would need to be simulated, with some kind of calibrated grit-thrower and dust-blower and rain-sprayer ..... And No one Cares that much.
These guys do, so I just read their lube reviews whenever I need a new bottle. That's how I ended up using Silca SS drip-on wax this time around. I don't make chain lubing my life's work!

https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au

https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/w...-drip-v1.1.pdf

Last edited by PeteHski; 09-20-21 at 02:31 PM.
PeteHski is offline  
Old 09-20-21, 02:45 PM
  #29  
Maelochs
Senior Member
 
Maelochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 15,433

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 143 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7620 Post(s)
Liked 3,432 Times in 1,813 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski
These guys do, so I just read their lube reviews whenever I need a new bottle. That's how I ended up using Silca SS drip-on wax this time around. I don't make chain lubing my life's work!

https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au
Are those the same guys with the multiple "Make your own wax" videos? All Aussies look the same to me.

I will have to check the price ... Silca is usually ridiculously overpriced. Nice thing about the paraffin and PTFE combo is that ten buck's worth last ten years.

Yeah ... . $46 for 8 ounces. For that money I would need to double chain life and be five mph quicker up the hills (so, twice as fast.)

Last edited by Maelochs; 09-20-21 at 02:48 PM.
Maelochs is offline  
Old 09-20-21, 02:56 PM
  #30  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,020
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4193 Post(s)
Liked 4,616 Times in 2,852 Posts
Originally Posted by Maelochs
Are those the same guys with the multiple "Make your own wax" videos? All Aussies look the same to me.

I will have to check the price ... Silca is usually ridiculously overpriced. Nice thing about the paraffin and PTFE combo is that ten buck's worth last ten years.
It is expensive (relatively) but works out reasonably cheap compared to most other drip-lubes when you factor in reduced drivetrain wear and wax/solvent ratio - a bottle of this stuff goes a long way.

Their specific review below discusses the cost aspect.

https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/w...-drip-v1.1.pdf

After a full season on my road bike, I'm pretty sold on the results and lack of effort required. It's a step up from Squirt, which itself was pretty good. Now I've finished my last bottle of Squirt on my mtb, I'm switching that over to Silca too.

P.S. no idea if it's the same Aussies! They all sound the same to me too, LOL!
PeteHski is offline  
Old 09-20-21, 08:11 PM
  #31  
ColonelSanders
Banned.
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Vegemite Island
Posts: 4,130

Bikes: 2017 Surly Troll with XT Drive Train, 2017 Merida Big Nine XT Edition, 2016 Giant Toughroad SLR 2, 1995 Trek 830

Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1916 Post(s)
Liked 310 Times in 218 Posts
Originally Posted by cyccommute
White Lightning. I’ve been using it since around 2000. I have dabbled with Rock ‘N’ Roll Red and Gold but haven’t noticed any difference in application or performance.
Is it the Clean Ride version I have uploaded a picture of?

ColonelSanders is offline  
Old 09-20-21, 10:38 PM
  #32  
frogman
Senior Member
 
frogman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Napa Valley, CA
Posts: 908

Bikes: Wife says I have too many :-)

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 327 Post(s)
Liked 248 Times in 158 Posts
Originally Posted by J.Higgins
Wax sucks, imho. I went through the whole chain-waxing spectrum of crockpots, ultrasonic cleaners, all the different wax recipes, as well as the ones that are premixed and ready to roll. After participating in dozens of discussion threads, and reading every possible chain-lube method, I've come to the conclusion that synthetic automotive transmission fluid (ATF) is the best choice for all conditions. My arguments follow:

1. ATF is reasonably clean. It does not seem to attract dust and dirt like regular oil. ATF has no tackiness to it, well, not much tackiness anyway - not as tacky as motor oil or bar and chain oil - so it doesn't get as filthy as other forms of lube.

2. It penetrates. ATF will work its way between the chain plates and pins a little easier.

3. Cleans up easier. I hit the chain with a little WD40, and give the chain a good wipe. Usually this does the trick.

4. Economical. A quart of oil - I use Mobil 1 synthetic - lasts a long time. I apply it with a refillable pump-type oil can, let it drip a little, wipe it off and ride away.


I also became obsessed with waxing my chain. Had better results after I started using Mobil One synthetic oil. Squirt on with a fill bottle with a small pointed tip, wipe it
down and ride. Here's an article on this if you are interested. I keep a log of chain life and using synthetic oil has given 30% longer chain life.
https://biketestreviews.com/the-last...n-lubrication/
frogman is offline  
Likes For frogman:
Old 09-21-21, 04:07 AM
  #33  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,020
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4193 Post(s)
Liked 4,616 Times in 2,852 Posts
Originally Posted by frogman
I also became obsessed with waxing my chain. Had better results after I started using Mobil One synthetic oil. Squirt on with a fill bottle with a small pointed tip, wipe it
down and ride. Here's an article on this if you are interested. I keep a log of chain life and using synthetic oil has given 30% longer chain life.
https://biketestreviews.com/the-last...n-lubrication/
The problem I've always had with wet lube is the ****** mess it quickly turns into with an open drivetrain. Unless you clean the whole drivetrain thoroughly after every single ride (which isn't happening for me) any initial lubrication advantage is totally lost after a handful of rides. Plus I don't have any excessive wear issues using wax based lubes anyway.

PS. If using engine oil, there's no need to be using anything as expensive as Mobil 1 for this application. Any cheapo engine oil will do the same job on a bicycle chain. Not that I would go down that route in any case.

Last edited by PeteHski; 09-21-21 at 04:11 AM.
PeteHski is offline  
Likes For PeteHski:
Old 09-21-21, 05:46 AM
  #34  
J.Higgins 
2-Wheeled Fool
 
J.Higgins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 2,486

Bikes: Surly Ogre, Brompton

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1385 Post(s)
Liked 677 Times in 457 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski
The problem I've always had with wet lube is the ****** mess it quickly turns into with an open drivetrain. Unless you clean the whole drivetrain thoroughly after every single ride (which isn't happening for me) any initial lubrication advantage is totally lost after a handful of rides. Plus I don't have any excessive wear issues using wax based lubes anyway.

PS. If using engine oil, there's no need to be using anything as expensive as Mobil 1 for this application. Any cheapo engine oil will do the same job on a bicycle chain. Not that I would go down that route in any case.
Yes, you absolutely must wipe down your chain after using a wet lube, but in the end it is worth it when you add up time saved and the knowledge that your chain is lubricated, not just smeared with wax. Also, the whole idea behind choosing a synthetic oil is that they stink less. Organic-based oils got that rotten sulphury-oil smell. I've used cheapo motor oils, and even used motor oil, but nothing rings my bell like Mobil 1 ATF. YMMV.
J.Higgins is offline  
Old 09-21-21, 09:18 AM
  #35  
cyccommute 
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,251

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 149 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6133 Post(s)
Liked 4,067 Times in 2,310 Posts
Originally Posted by ColonelSanders
Is it the Clean Ride version I have uploaded a picture of?

Yup.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!



cyccommute is offline  
Likes For cyccommute:
Old 09-21-21, 09:32 AM
  #36  
cyccommute 
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,251

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 149 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6133 Post(s)
Liked 4,067 Times in 2,310 Posts
Originally Posted by J.Higgins
Yes, you absolutely must wipe down your chain after using a wet lube, but in the end it is worth it when you add up time saved and the knowledge that your chain is lubricated, not just smeared with wax. Also, the whole idea behind choosing a synthetic oil is that they stink less. Organic-based oils got that rotten sulphury-oil smell. I've used cheapo motor oils, and even used motor oil, but nothing rings my bell like Mobil 1 ATF. YMMV.
A chain that is treated with wax, whether hot wax or solvent based wax, isn’t “just smeared with wax”. Although I can’t recall if you mixed your automatic transmission fluid with mineral spirits to thin it out, most people do. It’s just way too thick to pour onto the chain otherwise. It’s not the oil that penetrates into the chain, it’s the solvent. In the case of hot wax, it’s the liquid wax itself.

I’m not sure how you “save time” when using home brew oil. You have to wipe down your chain constantly. I don’t. I don’t wipe down my chain ever. There is simply no need. I don’t have to constantly clean my bike’s frame, wheels, and components because there’s no boulders sticking to the chain. I can touch the chain without a hazmat suit. I can fix a flat without splattering everyone within a half mile with black guck.

I’ve done oil. I’ve done hot wax. I use solvent based wax lubricants because they are as easy to use as oil lubricant but are as clean as the more futzy hot wax methods.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!



cyccommute is offline  
Old 09-21-21, 09:42 AM
  #37  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,020
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4193 Post(s)
Liked 4,616 Times in 2,852 Posts
Originally Posted by J.Higgins
Yes, you absolutely must wipe down your chain after using a wet lube, but in the end it is worth it when you add up time saved and the knowledge that your chain is lubricated, not just smeared with wax. Also, the whole idea behind choosing a synthetic oil is that they stink less. Organic-based oils got that rotten sulphury-oil smell. I've used cheapo motor oils, and even used motor oil, but nothing rings my bell like Mobil 1 ATF. YMMV.
Absolutely it does!
PeteHski is offline  
Old 09-21-21, 09:43 AM
  #38  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,020
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4193 Post(s)
Liked 4,616 Times in 2,852 Posts
Originally Posted by cyccommute

i’ve done oil. I’ve done hot wax. I use solvent based wax lubricants because they are as easy to use as oil lubricant but are as clean as the more futzy hot wax methods.
+1
Actually I never bothered with hot wax (except for skis)
PeteHski is offline  
Old 09-23-21, 07:27 AM
  #39  
Nachoman
well hello there
 
Nachoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Point Loma, CA
Posts: 15,430

Bikes: Bill Holland (Road-Ti), Fuji Roubaix Pro (back-up), Bike Friday (folder), Co-Motion (tandem) & Trek 750 (hybrid)

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 503 Post(s)
Liked 334 Times in 206 Posts
I've tried literally dozens of different types of lubes and I've gone months without using any lubes at all, and I can honestly say that I notice no difference whatsoever in frequency of chain replacement.
__________________
.
.

Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
Nachoman is offline  
Old 09-23-21, 07:58 AM
  #40  
bblair
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 710

Bikes: Lynskey R230, Trek 5200, 1975 Raleigh Pro, 1973 Falcon ,Trek T50 Tandem and a 1968 Paramount in progress.

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 354 Post(s)
Liked 362 Times in 219 Posts
Been using Squirt for a couple of seasons and a few tips:

Clean chain with soapy water and let completely dry.
Warm little Squirt bottle in hot water bath to reduce viscosity. Sometimes it is just way too thick doesn't appear to soak in. This is the key!
Apply to top and bottom of links and let sit for a while. This is when you have that post-ride beer.
Then wipe the outside of the chain as clean as possible. Clean, quiet, beautiful, long lasting chain!
bblair is offline  
Old 09-23-21, 01:10 PM
  #41  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,020
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4193 Post(s)
Liked 4,616 Times in 2,852 Posts
Originally Posted by bblair
Been using Squirt for a couple of seasons and a few tips:

Clean chain with soapy water and let completely dry.
Warm little Squirt bottle in hot water bath to reduce viscosity. Sometimes it is just way too thick doesn't appear to soak in. This is the key!
Apply to top and bottom of links and let sit for a while. This is when you have that post-ride beer.
Then wipe the outside of the chain as clean as possible. Clean, quiet, beautiful, long lasting chain!
I like that idea. Makes total sense. Although I probably wouldn't be arsed to actually do it!
PeteHski is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.