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Medici for a Modicum - 65cm 1985-87 Pro-Strada

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Medici for a Modicum - 65cm 1985-87 Pro-Strada

Old 02-10-21, 04:52 PM
  #26  
RiddleOfSteel
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I will be out of town the next few days, and as such, I am doing preparatory chores like laundry and dishes etc. In waiting for my laundry, I did some preliminary sanding and filing away of the bubbled paint both by hand and by drill (with those 3M webbed looking discs that remove paint and rust). The results look good! Nothing seems to indicate devastating rot at all, 'just' some small pitting and dark build-up on the tubes that will need extra attention. The pitting's pit sizes are quite small and shallow. As there is much paint bubbling, there is much pitting. Nothing that primer can't handle. You can weigh in if you like, but as far as I am concerned, the frame is--thankfully!--cleared to be built to assess ride. SWEET.

Good cable port definition still. Thank goodness. Certainly no museum piece, but a (future) rider. It's what I have to work with and it could be considerably worse, IMO!


So I took my CAD modeled Battaglin SLX and moved everything around to reflect the frame geometry of the Medici. Put some dark grey aero wheels on it with 25mm tan wall tires (I have used 25mm Vittoria Corsas that I picked up last week for a super deal--essentially new!). Got the "red paint" into the Garnett Red range, and installed some other components to get an initial assessment of bar, stem, seatpost, and saddle color compositions, as well as look at chrome "treatment." I plan to use compact 26.0mm bars (Nitto M151s this time) to get the saddle-to-brake-hood drop in a good range (just under 2"). It won't be my 620's 35mm drop, but then, it's not a touring bike. The stem is 110mm and that should put me where I need to be.

Classic silver stem and seatpost with black saddle and "bar tape" (I have not made the real bar tape yet in CAD, so changing handlebar colors will have to suffice for this mocking up phase). This is working well.


Super black upper. Interesting, but a bit much. I'd need the rest of the bike to be hyper-serious to match it. Not really going for that.


Black stem and seatpost with white saddle and bar tape. I think this works well. I removed the chrome fork crown and that seems to unify the look as the paired black stem and seatpost is a more modern affair. [I am aware it was done decades ago, but it always seemed to be with just one element, usually the stem. It seemed to take until around 1990 when cycling's color palates changed, to see stem/seatpost pairings outside of polished silver.] This basically looks like I'm making my dream Paramount, lol. I'll be giving it all more thought.
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Old 02-11-21, 09:37 AM
  #27  
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The master of his domain!!! That looks great.
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Old 02-11-21, 11:18 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Mr. 66
The master of his domain!!! That looks great.
Thanks!

“Sir, he went Full [Industrial] Designer. Never go Full Designer...”
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Old 02-12-21, 09:42 AM
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Always liked Medici Bikes. Bunch of peeps in a group I rode with had Medici's. A few being, the 3 Simonetti brothers & son of Carlo S (who recently passed). Carlo organized & led the Burlingame rides regularly on weekends. He was also quite involved w/ the Burlingame Criterium each year. Liked him a lot & a strong rider then... for his age. He moved away a few years ago & Burlingame Cyclery was sold off sadly to Summit Bicycles :-( On occasion, Gian Simonetti would come up to the Bay Area for a family visit & join us on rides. Seemingly, a nice guy w/ a touch of arrogance...!
I could count off possibly 10 or so riders in our group that rode Medici's back then. Red, purple, blue, black, green one's
~ Miss those days...

Good luck w/ your restoration Riddle...
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Old 02-12-21, 11:11 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by RiddleOfSteel
Thanks!

“Sir, he went Full [Industrial] Designer. Never go Full Designer...”
I consider myself a reformed designer.
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Old 02-15-21, 01:46 AM
  #31  
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I have returned from an ice-entombed Portland existence and have modeled a 110mm 1 1/8" threadless stem with a 31.8mm clamp (for the handlebars). Thankfully didn't take too long and it really helps future efforts. For this bike, I made an "Innicycle-enough" headset by simply changing the top cup to a more circular profile, while adding the 1 1/8" shaft. I placed the bars at the same just-under-2" saddle-to-brake-hood drop as before and this is the result. It's good to do this "for free" and see how it looks. The stem is -7° but there is considerable gap between top of HS and bottom of stem. A 67cm would help close this gap considerably. Modern, sloping top tube frames/bikes get away with the spacer look thanks to precedent, headset "top cap" being very conical, and aesthetic continuity between the sloping top tube and the sloping stem (often at same/similar angles). And as so often is the case, the threadless stem to a 31.8mm bar, with slender standard diameter steel tubing, makes the bike look a little front/top heavy (well, with the stem at that height for sure).

Anyway, take a look at it. It doesn't look bad, but I'm not sure it's the look I'd like to go for. Keep in mind, I still must find a stem for this that will work with a slightly steeper than 73° HT angle.

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Old 02-15-21, 03:12 AM
  #32  
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I can drop the bars, pictured above a bit more and things start to look better. Still...

I thought I'd just build and arrange the cockpit with some traditional bars, just to, well, get it out of the way with and likely satisfy all of yours as well as my thoughts on what it would look like. Made Nitto's B105AA bars in 42cm width (at the drops, tops are 40cm-ish, maybe a hair less, and they max at that 42cm size...) and set the levers up with them. Put the 73° stem at the same angle as the HT in this case--no cheating, and thus, it angles down eeeever so slightly--and dropped the length to 100mm as the B105's have a 95mm reach as opposed to the M151's 76mm reach. The saddle-to-brake-hood drop is right about 2.5" but concessions must be made for setup! Plus, as a non-tourer, I can get away with this much drop, though preferably no more.

This is, of course, the most traditional look. Never mind the missing drivetrain that gives a slightly top-heavy look. Regardless, this looks comfortable with itself.


I'll throw up some pictures "tomorrow" of my progress in paint removal. There was a lot, but the short explanation is that there were no more surprises.

EDIT: I suppose if I am going to allow a 2.5" drop on a traditional setup, it would be fair to see how a 2.5" drop on the 'modern' cockpit setup would work. It is much better/more attractive than the 2" version.


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Old 02-15-21, 05:47 PM
  #33  
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A tradition vote from me.

or a 1” thread less adapter and stem
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Old 02-16-21, 09:23 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by repechage
A tradition vote from me.
+1
Threadless looks a bit too bulky...imo!
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Old 02-16-21, 09:34 AM
  #35  
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Another vote for traditional.
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Old 02-16-21, 10:16 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by RiddleOfSteel
I can drop the bars, pictured above a bit more and things start to look better. Still...

I thought I'd just build and arrange the cockpit with some traditional bars, just to, well, get it out of the way with and likely satisfy all of yours as well as my thoughts on what it would look like. Made Nitto's B105AA bars in 42cm width (at the drops, tops are 40cm-ish, maybe a hair less, and they max at that 42cm size...) and set the levers up with them. Put the 73° stem at the same angle as the HT in this case--no cheating, and thus, it angles down eeeever so slightly--and dropped the length to 100mm as the B105's have a 95mm reach as opposed to the M151's 76mm reach. The saddle-to-brake-hood drop is right about 2.5" but concessions must be made for setup! Plus, as a non-tourer, I can get away with this much drop, though preferably no more.

This is, of course, the most traditional look. Never mind the missing drivetrain that gives a slightly top-heavy look. Regardless, this looks comfortable with itself.
EDIT: I suppose if I am going to allow a 2.5" drop on a traditional setup, it would be fair to see how a 2.5" drop on the 'modern' cockpit setup would work. It is much better/more attractive than the 2" version.
Traditional looks better but I understand the curiosity about going threadless. They do seem to look different because those are two different bars right?

I like how you modelled the bike to get a feel for parts and colours.
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Old 02-16-21, 11:56 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by repechage
A tradition vote from me.

or a 1” thread less adapter and stem
I am a fan of the adapter method as I usually put it to it's minimum height (or "slammed"), which always looks good and keeps the awkwardness (of a bulky stem) in check. That might be a little low for my desired setup at the moment, but I'll do some measuring off my Trek 620 for some real life results. That second, lower-set threadless setup puts the saddle-to-hood drop essentially where my 66cm Land Shark did. The Land Shark, in addition to 1cm more height, had a generous 1cm's worth of headset spacers, making it more of a stealth 67cm frame in a way.
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Old 02-16-21, 12:01 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by JaccoW
Traditional looks better but I understand the curiosity about going threadless. They do seem to look different because those are two different bars right?

I like how you modelled the bike to get a feel for parts and colours.
I've done threadless adapters many times and have always liked the look and bar type flexibility. The elevation gained is not as much as I'd like, but angling the stem up (instead of down) is detrimental to the aesthetic for me. The bars are different: Nitto M151 compact profile for those upper images, a generic compact profile 31.8mm clamp bar for the threadless examples, and a Nitto B105AA for the traditional drop bar profile. All of this helps me search and spend carefully. Still a long way to go, but getting there!
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Old 02-16-21, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage
A tradition vote from me.

or a 1” thread less adapter and stem
Are you referring to something like Nitto's MTC-01 quill for 1" threadless stem conversions? I've been intrigued by this particular product for a while as I have several svelte looking 1" threadless stems I might like to use sometime: https://www.benscycle.com/nitto-mtc-...0-870-094-30/p
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Old 02-16-21, 09:38 PM
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Innicycle conversion

As for conversion stems, this is one of my favorite. Designed by a BF member joejack951 ...if I had known they were going to stop production I would have purchased several. The design is most intriguing to me.

Your resurrection of this bicycle is fun to watch and follow.

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Old 02-17-21, 01:34 PM
  #41  
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Another vote for Innicycle -if you can get one. They are a far superior solution to conversion stems -and the "headset" part is VERY high quality. Like Chris King / White Industries / Campy Record / Dura Ace etc quality. I've used three so far, and will definitely use again.
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Old 02-17-21, 03:02 PM
  #42  
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Thanks, guys! Yeah, ever since it was created, the Innicycle headset has been on my mind. I've run conversion adapters plenty of times, with great success, though that success is predicated on putting it all in the lowest position so as to avoid aesthetic awkwardness. Anything higher, a quill is more elegant. The price is plenty fair for the quality, innovation, number produced (aka not a million) and aesthetic, so you won't find me arguing against it at all--I just need a complete aesthetic vision to move forward with such a component, let alone asking @joejack951 if future batches would be produced.
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Old 02-17-21, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by RiddleOfSteel
Thanks, guys! Yeah, ever since it was created, the Innicycle headset has been on my mind. I've run conversion adapters plenty of times, with great success, though that success is predicated on putting it all in the lowest position so as to avoid aesthetic awkwardness. Anything higher, a quill is more elegant. The price is plenty fair for the quality, innovation, number produced (aka not a million) and aesthetic, so you won't find me arguing against it at all--I just need a complete aesthetic vision to move forward with such a component, let alone asking @joejack951 if future batches would be produced.
Reach out to him. I sent him a PM and he got back to me with good news.
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Old 02-17-21, 08:06 PM
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Interesting build/restoration project, I'm following this one to watch how the rust is handled by a caring and skilled enthusiast from here. My '80 ( as best as the Learned Elders in this forum can determine,) is a nice riding bike. The frame set and several Campagnolo components generously came to me from Drillium Dude in 2016. I built it up with all Nuovo Record, but did not bother with matching the component dates. The colourway is original, a deep emerald metal flake green, no chrome rear triangle or fork this early in the history. the bar wrap in now green, tubulars are Vittorias.

Best wishes on your build, subscribing to this thread!

Bill



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Old 02-17-21, 09:28 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by qcpmsame
Interesting build/restoration project, I'm following this one to watch how the rust is handled by a caring and skilled enthusiast from here. My '80 ( as best as the Learned Elders in this forum can determine,) is a nice riding bike. The frame set and several Campagnolo components generously came to me from Drillium Dude in 2016. I built it up with all Nuovo Record, but did not bother with matching the component dates. The colourway is original, a deep emerald metal flake green, no chrome rear triangle or fork this early in the history. the bar wrap in now green, tubulars are Vittorias.

Best wishes on your build, subscribing to this thread!

Bill
Thank you! I've been slacking on updating with photos for a couple of days here, but that will happen in the next post tonight, haha. The rust, or rather, pitting from the rust, will be interesting to observe and be educated on with regard to future restorative efforts. This is where I will ask those that have experienced this same thing and ask how they remedied it when it came time to refinish--did powder coating smooth over things sufficiently, or would a good coat of primer, sanding, and then color + clear be a lot better? It will come down to how much I really like it. If painting is the better option, I'd be up for doing it myself, using a 2K enamel clear coat (with proper respirator of course) to "do it right" instead of simply leaving a base coat. It will really depend.

I am glad that early Medicis weren't as chrome-laden, which allows me to "choose my own adventure." Your 1980 looks fantastic. Deep dark green with the dark anodized rims and tan wall tires. Whew!
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Old 02-17-21, 09:48 PM
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So, finally, I've been a slug to update things since I got back. Thank you for your patience! A little Part I and Part II to this update.

Part I is the results post-paint removal. Using the Death Sponge (ok, it's a 3M paint and rust remover disc thing that attaches to your drill and looks like a thin hockey puck's worth of webbing) and a drill, I did a lot more work on nearly all the trouble places on the frame. I missed a few because they were by the headset, and it was not quite 40 degrees in the shop. After my initial paint removal up here in Seattle, where "the worst of it" was found, there were no surprises in my extended Portland effort. Tons of pitting yes, and all of that pitting being very very shallow. Would a powder coating cover that up? Someone please let me know!

Also discovered and subsequently removed, to various degrees, was the multi-step chroming processes. I'll point that out in photos, but it can make things look a little worse, even if there'd be no difference without it. This will be something for media blasting to take care of, presumably, which I intend to do.

Here we have (circled) a pair of "snake bite" dents that humorously resemble an inner tube pinch flat. Which reminds me that I got a flat 2 miles and 400 feet in elevation from home today in service of the Medici (and, maybe another project?.....).


Here, between the bottle cage bosses, we see one of the stages of the chrome plating process being removed, or at least picked at, by the Death Sponge. I didn't want to keep chasing it. I'll let it be handled by media blasting or just a dang primer coat and sanding.


More chroming removal on the chromed section of the drive side chain stay. There was some paint trouble on the BB shell (of course), but that seemed to go away with the paint removal. There is of course pitting elsewhere.


Underside of the top tube, which as we know, has borne the absolute brunt of paint and steel degradation. Since Medici dunked the whole flippin' rear triangle into the tanks for chroming, the down tube and top tube got in on the action, and you can see that towards the right side of the photo, intermixed, of course, with pitting. Seat lug/cluster didn't escape the rust gods' hunger either.


Underside of the top tube, more towards the front of the top tube, nearer the head lug.


This section of the non-drive side chain stay looked bad and I was unable to get the rust off of the chrome in my initial efforts. Death Sponge to the rescue. Plating processes removed in part, but overall not as bad as it looked. More pitting. Glad I didn't pay a million bucks for this! I have to be saving weight and creating a whippier ride here!
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Old 02-17-21, 10:02 PM
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What do we do with a bike with paint removed? Build it up of course!

Armed with some long-held and totally-not-slumming-it Dura-Ace gems that I ended up not selling during my great sell-off, I got to work getting this thing closer to being ridden, where the next test will be conducted. 7900 down tube shifters and 7402 brake calipers came out of their respective bins and were mounted. They were/will be joined by others.

Yes, dual pivot calipers offer noticeably better braking, especially for us bigger/taller guys, but, man, do any look better than this?


Part of the "never selling it" club, these 10-speed wonders. One of my all-time favorites.


Guess who is really wanting this thing to be a Paramount? But seriously, it's the only matching pair of cages I have left. And they look good with raw steel to boot!


Rear caliper. The brake bridge's chrome was, like the rest of the frame, in trouble. Removing it helped to reveal the same below-the-surface issues as the rest of the frame.


Beautiful dropouts, and a beautiful 7800-era Dura-Ace rear derailleur (especially post-polishing/cleaning) to go with it...


...or is it? Take a look at the B-tension screw mounting tab. Half ripped off and bent out of alignment. Good news? The rest of the derailleur flawlessly functions and is in great visual condition. I was also able to go back to the place I bought it from and was given a "parts derailleur" to take that piece from. All will be made right soon!


Nevertheless, we need a macro shot to remind us of the progress made and inspire us to future action. I picked up a crankset that was slated for another bike, but was able to find a BB for it that works with my left knee's desired Q-factor, so that will be going on shortly. I'll take a photo of it and upload, hopefully tonight.
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Old 02-18-21, 01:22 AM
  #48  
RiddleOfSteel
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Ok, rear derailleur crisis averted. Not too much of a fuss to swap the piece, and we are good to go! I picked up a Campagnolo bottom bracket to work with the Medici's Italian threading. Anyway, the Medici's BB shell threading is in good form! The bottom bracket threaded in easily on both sides, and I installed the crankset (though not after a full cleaning and polishing). The crankset is a Chorus 10-speed and it is in great shape. The headset was also repacked with grease. I'll need to tighten and adjust everything, but progress has been made there--no forgetting once it's all built up!



[And in a bit of an aside, the present state of available cranksets (and parts for that matter) is, as we know, unsettled. From Craigslist to Ebay to LBS, the general theme I see right now is that unless one is getting a deal for something below $50-60, that $50-60 range is the transition point between decidedly rough or rougher examples below, and nice examples above (usually, WAY above). So that range becomes a sort of 'floor' if you will, and well, when you find great cranksets on the floor and rough cranksets just beneath those 'floorboards', the problem solves itself. I don't have access to a shop to run my buffer to spend a three hours (hopefully) bringing back a $40-50 scratched-to-death Sugino Mighty (or gen 1 Dura-Ace, or Superbe, or 600 Arabesque etc) crankset in a too-short length. I can't find a decent Maxy or other Sugino that would work, so it's really not an issue of sticking my nose up at 'lesser' cranks. They just don't exist outside of 'beater bike' condition, and if they do, online sellers see fit to ask $60+ for them. Some things fall through the cracks. People had weeks to buy that Chorus crankset, but I guess that 175mm length was too much. Who knows. It's also winter and only the perennial bike enthusiasts are on the continual hunt. I would love to find a pristine 1987+ Shimano 105 groupset and just build a (tall) bike with it. Matching hubs, too, laced to decent rims. Vittoria Corsa tires etc. Find the frame for not much, build a bike for not much. But 105 is often the transition point in component condition where there are more 600 and Dura-Ace components available in good condition than there are 105 and below in good condition as the lower-ranked components are subject to harsher conditions by perhaps negligent owners over a longer period of time. I still want to build a bike with current gen Claris (R2000) or Sora (R3000). Great looks, proven components, fantastic STI shifter shape and feel, and great price. Just need a frame that goes with it.....]

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Old 02-18-21, 10:56 AM
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repechage
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I would wet paint it, epoxy primer/surfacer. And or an etching primer.
powdercoat no matter who does it will at some point allow water and rust in. No more rust for this frame.
EVERY powdercoated frame I have stripped the finish off has exhibited rust, underneath Even if there were no rust markings visible from above.
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Old 02-18-21, 01:23 PM
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RiddleOfSteel
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Originally Posted by repechage
I would wet paint it, epoxy primer/surfacer. And or an etching primer.
powdercoat no matter who does it will at some point allow water and rust in. No more rust for this frame.
EVERY powdercoated frame I have stripped the finish off has exhibited rust, underneath Even if there were no rust markings visible from above.
Interesting. What were the conditions of these powder coated frames/bikes when you stripped them? Could the media blasting of the frame prior to coat been poor? Was the powder coating job done well or poorly? Were these frames powder coated when new or a mid-life redo like many of us have had performed?
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