Why do you ride that old steel road bike?
#76
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I like how most dead horses and blatant troll threads end up as galleries of great bikes.
#77
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But my point is that steel is no more real than aluminum. You don't mine steel you maunfacture it. And they add things to it to get from 531 to the newer steel frames. The goal was always the same with a road bike, lighter, less flex. For me I don't care how they get there, the material doesn't matter as much as the ability to tune the frame. I would consider a Calfee if it improved flex and weight and was in my budget. I do like Waterfords but I don't like them more than my Klein.
For this forum I would expect to see more riders on old steel. What I don't see is an equal representation in the real world where I live. At least not with road bikes. There has to be a reason and I don't believe the consumer was fooled into moving away from steel. Yes they make some custom steel bikes that are pretty impressive and I am sure some of them ride very well. But I am not sure they ride any better than any other bike made of Aluminum or Cf or Bamboo. I didn't say anyone should dump their old steel bike I only said it is very unlikely that I would go back to steel now that the other materials have improved as well.
For this forum I would expect to see more riders on old steel. What I don't see is an equal representation in the real world where I live. At least not with road bikes. There has to be a reason and I don't believe the consumer was fooled into moving away from steel. Yes they make some custom steel bikes that are pretty impressive and I am sure some of them ride very well. But I am not sure they ride any better than any other bike made of Aluminum or Cf or Bamboo. I didn't say anyone should dump their old steel bike I only said it is very unlikely that I would go back to steel now that the other materials have improved as well.
#78
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Good steel is incredibly comfortable, extremely durable, and plenty fast and agile for anything I'm planning to do. Even if I had a big budget, I think I'd go for modern high-end steel rather than CF. IMHO, not knocking AL or CF.
#79
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I do not baby my CF bike any more than any other bike. It has been reliable so far. It soaks up more road than any bike I ride. It is stiff and fast on the climbs and a pleasure to ride. With modern brifters shifting is an afterthought and just happens. It is my number 1. Wilier Mortrolio 2008
My steel road bike has more of a glide to the ride. With downtube shifters and shimano 600 the bike is simple and I enjoy taking it for a spin and it gets out on the open road almost as much as the CF. It cruises up the road and I like the feel of it on a decent. Nishiki Tri A 1985
My aluminum bike was a gimme. Its a bit small but it sure rode nice. Lower end with Sora I never had issues with it. Climbs just as good as my CF
Giant OCR 2003
My MTB is a hard tail aluminum I always laugh when folks say how brittle aluminum is when it is the material of choice for a much more aggressive environment 2007 Stumpjumper
My old MTB now lives with my cousin. Cromoly steel bike that served me well. Went so many places for so many years it is like an old friend. The headset just would not stay tight in the dirt anymore. Could never sell it as I love that bike and bought it brand new in 1986 GT Backwoods
Each material has its merits in my view and I don't hate on any quality bikes
My steel road bike has more of a glide to the ride. With downtube shifters and shimano 600 the bike is simple and I enjoy taking it for a spin and it gets out on the open road almost as much as the CF. It cruises up the road and I like the feel of it on a decent. Nishiki Tri A 1985
My aluminum bike was a gimme. Its a bit small but it sure rode nice. Lower end with Sora I never had issues with it. Climbs just as good as my CF
Giant OCR 2003
My MTB is a hard tail aluminum I always laugh when folks say how brittle aluminum is when it is the material of choice for a much more aggressive environment 2007 Stumpjumper
My old MTB now lives with my cousin. Cromoly steel bike that served me well. Went so many places for so many years it is like an old friend. The headset just would not stay tight in the dirt anymore. Could never sell it as I love that bike and bought it brand new in 1986 GT Backwoods
Each material has its merits in my view and I don't hate on any quality bikes
#80
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I ride both and enjoy both for different reasons. I love the nostalgia and memories my old steel 6 speeds bring me plus their craftsmanship and beauty is wonderful, but on the other hand I embrace the technology my carbon bike with modern components offers and ride it daily as opposed to "tribute" riding the steel bikes. The carbon bike just feels right to me and I'm an old guy.
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I think steel bikes-- nice steel bikes-- have an aesthetic elegance and purity that radically shaped alu and swoopy carbon just don't have. There are good looking bikes of all material, to be sure, but a nice steel bike just looks classic (like an air cooled 911, though I'm a 928 guy. ) whenever I see one. That's why I ride steel.
Of course, younger generations are growing up admiring the "carbon lines" of Pinarello and BMC (BMC I understand; those look awesome!), and feeling the energy and urgency of the all carbon, pro peloton when it rushes by, so I'm sure, in time, carbon will be the new classic, and steel will fade into history, a novelty of a long bygone era, just as the wooden wheeled bikes of the '20s are today. Well, they may hang on a little better than that given the length of their reign, but given enough time, all things pass.
Of course, younger generations are growing up admiring the "carbon lines" of Pinarello and BMC (BMC I understand; those look awesome!), and feeling the energy and urgency of the all carbon, pro peloton when it rushes by, so I'm sure, in time, carbon will be the new classic, and steel will fade into history, a novelty of a long bygone era, just as the wooden wheeled bikes of the '20s are today. Well, they may hang on a little better than that given the length of their reign, but given enough time, all things pass.
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Some of the old steel frame bikes with their beautiful lugs are a thing of beauty. The ones out of the mid to late 80s with their down tube shifters are some of the simplest clean looking bikes ever produced.
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I'm not necessarily a lug fan, and think that TIG'd frames exude that sense of geometric balance and harmony just as well. Polished, pinstriped lugs can look great, and of course fancy shaped lugs are, well, fancy, but in and of themselves, lugs don't mean a whole lot to me or add or detract from my steel preference.
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My Gazelle Champion Mondial was made for flat, windy, bad pavement rides. It's maybe a kilo or so heavier than my Cervelo, but it's super stable in a crosswind, seems to float over broken asphalt, and seems to hold speed over the flats better. I can ride it for days and feel fresh at the end.
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Reynolds 531 first hit the market in 1935 and dominated high end steel frames for half a century. The new alloys are not necessarily stronger than 531, but rather more amenable to modern manufacturing methods -- e.g. TIG welding and automated processes rather than low temperature hand brazing.
John, would you not agree that modern alloys from Reynolds 753 on up to 953, Columbus Niobium, and TruTemper OX-Plat and S3 are stronger steel materials than 531? I think that case is pretty clear. What's not as clear is whether tubing products made of them with thinner walls are as durable in the same usage.
#87
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I ride three different bikes.....carbon, aluminum, and steel. My carbon bike is by far the nicest and most expensive of the three, but I do find myself babying it for more than the other two. It has nothing to do with I think it's going to catastrophically explode, but it does have limitations that I feel must be recognized.
Carbon has great riding properties. I love how the bike feels and performs. The negative is that generally you can't clamp/bolt much to it and while it's a sturdy material, you still have to keep in mind that you need to make sure it doesn't get gouged or cracked more so than on other frames.
With my steel bike, I don't give a second thought about it banging around or putting a rack or other additions to the frame. At the worst, I just need to go get it welded should something blow up. I do have the concern of rust, but taking care of the bike after rides eliminates that.
With the aluminum bike, it seems to have the best of both worlds. It rides well enough, I can bang the frame around, and it isn't going to rust on me.
That being said, I think I enjoy the old steel bike the best. It has an amazingly smooth ride that seems to soak up more vibrations than the other two. I also feel more secure it it being able to handle the worst roads and surprise potholes the best. I also think that you just can't beat the beauty of a steel bike with really nice lugs.
Carbon has great riding properties. I love how the bike feels and performs. The negative is that generally you can't clamp/bolt much to it and while it's a sturdy material, you still have to keep in mind that you need to make sure it doesn't get gouged or cracked more so than on other frames.
With my steel bike, I don't give a second thought about it banging around or putting a rack or other additions to the frame. At the worst, I just need to go get it welded should something blow up. I do have the concern of rust, but taking care of the bike after rides eliminates that.
With the aluminum bike, it seems to have the best of both worlds. It rides well enough, I can bang the frame around, and it isn't going to rust on me.
That being said, I think I enjoy the old steel bike the best. It has an amazingly smooth ride that seems to soak up more vibrations than the other two. I also feel more secure it it being able to handle the worst roads and surprise potholes the best. I also think that you just can't beat the beauty of a steel bike with really nice lugs.
#88
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Cheap, heavy frames and 20+ year old frames are not what is possible with steel as a material. Todays steels, S3, spirit,KVA etc can produce a frame no more than 200 grams heavier than the lightest of all carbon frames. Any frame at or under 1 kg is going to have a shorter, finite life.
I still like older style, un heat treated steel lugged frames for the following reasons.
1. there are much finer increments of stiffness and responsiveness to exactly match you and the task, if you know what your looking for. Tubesets for the other materials have never had anything like as many incremental variations, some are literally one size fits all.
2.Because they are versatile, you can do (mildly)crazy things or change the kind of riding you want to do without worrying about damage and scratching or chipping it. You own the bike and decide what it does not the other way round.
3. Because the elasticity is very useful and contrary to marketing hype, only stores energy and releases much of it when unloaded, not consuming it in most areas such as the bottom bracket.. On a less than perfect surface you dont get anything like as fatigued, that there is such a thing as too stiff is how suspension got developed. You dont see many oversize carbon randonneur frames, a fork made out of a 531 style material can have close to an inch of unidirectional travel with much lower weight than a moving parts equivalent.
4.A great many standing ultimate, pro road and world speed records in different areas were set using these frames, gifted people could ride up alpe duez etc at 30kph on them, they cant be that bad even if the state of the art is a tiny bit faster in the right conditions.
5.Lastly, because it can be good to have a heavier training and lighter event bike, but with a small enough difference that the acceleration and effort habits and style are still transferable.
Heat treated new steels compared to 531 etc can have very different ride feel and purpose. Lugs often allow thinner tubes to be used than tig, making a more supple ride, todays lugs have advanced and moved on as well.
I still like older style, un heat treated steel lugged frames for the following reasons.
1. there are much finer increments of stiffness and responsiveness to exactly match you and the task, if you know what your looking for. Tubesets for the other materials have never had anything like as many incremental variations, some are literally one size fits all.
2.Because they are versatile, you can do (mildly)crazy things or change the kind of riding you want to do without worrying about damage and scratching or chipping it. You own the bike and decide what it does not the other way round.
3. Because the elasticity is very useful and contrary to marketing hype, only stores energy and releases much of it when unloaded, not consuming it in most areas such as the bottom bracket.. On a less than perfect surface you dont get anything like as fatigued, that there is such a thing as too stiff is how suspension got developed. You dont see many oversize carbon randonneur frames, a fork made out of a 531 style material can have close to an inch of unidirectional travel with much lower weight than a moving parts equivalent.
4.A great many standing ultimate, pro road and world speed records in different areas were set using these frames, gifted people could ride up alpe duez etc at 30kph on them, they cant be that bad even if the state of the art is a tiny bit faster in the right conditions.
5.Lastly, because it can be good to have a heavier training and lighter event bike, but with a small enough difference that the acceleration and effort habits and style are still transferable.
Heat treated new steels compared to 531 etc can have very different ride feel and purpose. Lugs often allow thinner tubes to be used than tig, making a more supple ride, todays lugs have advanced and moved on as well.
Last edited by trescojones; 01-23-13 at 05:59 AM.
#89
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For the same reason I enjoy passing 1000+cc, fuel-injected motorcycles with my little 499cc, carbureted twin-cylinder putt-putt on Palomar Mountain's sillystring road.
Also because my 26-year old steel bikes have never made terrifying noises while descending down a twisty, narrow road with speeding cars approaching from the rear...
...and the terror was justified.
(An aluminum main triangle with carbon forks & rear triangle.)
Also because my 26-year old steel bikes have never made terrifying noises while descending down a twisty, narrow road with speeding cars approaching from the rear...
...and the terror was justified.
(An aluminum main triangle with carbon forks & rear triangle.)
#90
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For the same reason I enjoy passing 1000+cc, fuel-injected motorcycles with my little 499cc, carbureted twin-cylinder putt-putt on Palomar Mountain's sillystring road.
Also because my 26-year old steel bikes have never made terrifying noises while descending down a twisty, narrow road with speeding cars approaching from the rear...
...and the terror was justified.
(An aluminum main triangle with carbon forks & rear triangle.)
Also because my 26-year old steel bikes have never made terrifying noises while descending down a twisty, narrow road with speeding cars approaching from the rear...
...and the terror was justified.
(An aluminum main triangle with carbon forks & rear triangle.)
Yikes! Yep, I'll stick with my 40 year old steel ride. Great ride, I haven't had problems getting a rack to fit or lights to attach to it or new gears when needed. Cheap, comfortable and easy to work on.
#91
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For the same reason I enjoy passing 1000+cc, fuel-injected motorcycles with my little 499cc, carbureted twin-cylinder putt-putt on Palomar Mountain's sillystring road.
Also because my 26-year old steel bikes have never made terrifying noises while descending down a twisty, narrow road with speeding cars approaching from the rear...
...and the terror was justified.
(An aluminum main triangle with carbon forks & rear triangle.)
Also because my 26-year old steel bikes have never made terrifying noises while descending down a twisty, narrow road with speeding cars approaching from the rear...
...and the terror was justified.
(An aluminum main triangle with carbon forks & rear triangle.)
In every forum and club I have ever belonged to from Motorcycles, or cars to binocular Astronomy there has been a old school verses new school debate. No one ever changes their opinion once they believe they have made the right decission and voted with their wallet.
I figure people still buy steel because that is what they can afford or what they want. Maybe they wanted a custom frame and their favorite builder only works in steel or Titainium. That being said I have yet to ride a steel bike that has this magic ride I have heard so much about. And the last Steel Bike I rode was a Waterford that I thought was light years better than an old Peugeot U-09.
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Hmm why ride a steel bike you say? It makes beating riders on 10k bikes just that much sweeter.
#94
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#95
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Nope, just pointing out that none of my (3) 26-year-old steel bikes have broken, and that my aluminum/carbon bike snapped within about 4 years.
And my original '86 Schwinn Peloton was involved in about a dozen USCF crit pile-ups and, despite sustaining beef-jerky scabs on my non-derailleur-side leg for two years, and chipping a good deal of paint off the bike, I was never able to break (or even bend) that Columbus-framed Schwinn.
And my original '86 Schwinn Peloton was involved in about a dozen USCF crit pile-ups and, despite sustaining beef-jerky scabs on my non-derailleur-side leg for two years, and chipping a good deal of paint off the bike, I was never able to break (or even bend) that Columbus-framed Schwinn.
#96
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Nope, just pointing out that none of my (3) 26-year-old steel bikes have broken, and that my aluminum/carbon bike snapped within about 4 years.
And my original '86 Schwinn Peloton was involved in about a dozen USCF crit pile-ups and, despite sustaining beef-jerky scabs on my non-derailleur-side leg for two years, and chipping a good deal of paint off the bike, I was never able to break (or even bend) that Columbus-framed Schwinn.
And my original '86 Schwinn Peloton was involved in about a dozen USCF crit pile-ups and, despite sustaining beef-jerky scabs on my non-derailleur-side leg for two years, and chipping a good deal of paint off the bike, I was never able to break (or even bend) that Columbus-framed Schwinn.
I am not saying steel isn't viable as a material. I am saying the ride of steel is way over rated in forums like these. If the ride indeed was that superior fewer people would be switching to other materials. (I don't believe is Sasquach or a conspiracy by manufacturers to dis steel) It may be the prefered feel to some but I have yet to see it in any bike I have tried in the last ten years. It is far closer to the difference between Levis and Wranglers or Coke and Pepsi. The other thing I have noticed, and this is just as an aside, the most ferverent proponants of steel frames also still like down tube shifters. Some just may give a nod to Bar end shifters but they are the biggest group still pulling for friction shifters and that totally goes over my head. Once again going back to the car thing, it is like loving the old three on the tree when everyone has moved on to six speeds and paddle shifters. It is all good, it just isn't all good for the majority of us.
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If people were worried abut CF cracking or failing one has to wonder what that front fork is made of? a tail of two materials? But at least it has STI.
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That is a lot like the manual transmission verses automatic debates in Car forums. I have owned about 35 cars and trucks. maybe evenly split between automatics and manuals. One Automatic had to be rebuilt and about 10 manuals had to be rebuilt. Does that make Automatacs better? Nope just different. I have never had an Aluminum frame break but I have had a Schwin Varsity fail at the kick stand right behind the bottom bracket. Does that make Aluminum better than steel? Nope just that in "my" case that is the way things happened. The real question comes down to what are customer preferences? I don't believe my Klein will ever rust, Nor may Jamis, or a Scandium Road frame. But even if they did fail would that make steel a better solution? No more than Aluminum of CF is a better solution simply because my old Schwinn broke.
I am not saying steel isn't viable as a material. I am saying the ride of steel is way over rated in forums like these. If the ride indeed was that superior fewer people would be switching to other materials. (I don't believe is Sasquach or a conspiracy by manufacturers to dis steel) It may be the prefered feel to some but I have yet to see it in any bike I have tried in the last ten years. It is far closer to the difference between Levis and Wranglers or Coke and Pepsi. The other thing I have noticed, and this is just as an aside, the most ferverent proponants of steel frames also still like down tube shifters. Some just may give a nod to Bar end shifters but they are the biggest group still pulling for friction shifters and that totally goes over my head. Once again going back to the car thing, it is like loving the old three on the tree when everyone has moved on to six speeds and paddle shifters. It is all good, it just isn't all good for the majority of us.
I am not saying steel isn't viable as a material. I am saying the ride of steel is way over rated in forums like these. If the ride indeed was that superior fewer people would be switching to other materials. (I don't believe is Sasquach or a conspiracy by manufacturers to dis steel) It may be the prefered feel to some but I have yet to see it in any bike I have tried in the last ten years. It is far closer to the difference between Levis and Wranglers or Coke and Pepsi. The other thing I have noticed, and this is just as an aside, the most ferverent proponants of steel frames also still like down tube shifters. Some just may give a nod to Bar end shifters but they are the biggest group still pulling for friction shifters and that totally goes over my head. Once again going back to the car thing, it is like loving the old three on the tree when everyone has moved on to six speeds and paddle shifters. It is all good, it just isn't all good for the majority of us.
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You have some basis for this belief? Other than personal preferences? And isn't that how most of us pick a bike?
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My basis for the belief is talking to other cyclists - especially those who strike up a conversation with something along the lines of "I can't believe you can keep up with that steel bike!" They're not trying to start a fight, they're just truly ignorant on the topic, because the bike shop and Bicycling! told them that anything but carbon (or maybe titanium) is one small step removed from a high wheeler. When exposed to the idea that steel gives up next to nothing (especially on the club/recreational level) many of them are genuinely surprised.