clipless or flat pedals
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This thread is a perfect illustration of the differences between old people who identify as cyclists, and old people who actually are cyclists. Pick your camp. Clip in or get out.
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I never got used to the clipless shoes with clipless pedals, so I am using my comfortable running shoes no matter what, with flat pedals (hybrid bike) and clipless pedals (road bikes), somehow with the exception of starting out I do not feel any difference between flat and clipless pedals. It must be age thing.
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Some riders like to be clipped in to feel connected to their bikes. Some riders like pedaling on flats so they can get out faster during adverse events. Both groups feel that their choices are valid. Both groups are comprised of oldsters. What’s your point? Are you agreeing with me, or are you trying to create adversity? As for being naïve, I’m so far down the road you can’t even see me.
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What a funny thread. We all know there's no right and wrong concerning most bike equipment, there are only differences in application. All those above photos of crashing riders have one thing in common: they're all riding clipless. Huh, wonder why that is? Well, it's because competitive riders all ride clipless, duh. In 25 years and maybe 1000 group rides, I've seen exactly 2 people riding flats and weirdly enough, both riding fixed. They not only couldn't stay with the group, they had to get off and walk hills and were never seen again, not ever. We keep an eye out for eaten-out torsos in the ditches in the spring, riders who were never seen again.
Not to say that flats are always a poor choice, but there are appropriate applications. Keeping up with clipless riders on hard rides, either road or mountain, is not one of them. Not that one can't do hard rides on flats, it's just the keeping up thing. Other than that application, it's a personal choice, whatever.
Not to say that flats are always a poor choice, but there are appropriate applications. Keeping up with clipless riders on hard rides, either road or mountain, is not one of them. Not that one can't do hard rides on flats, it's just the keeping up thing. Other than that application, it's a personal choice, whatever.
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What a funny thread. We all know there's no right and wrong concerning most bike equipment, there are only differences in application. All those above photos of crashing riders have one thing in common: they're all riding clipless. Huh, wonder why that is? Well, it's because competitive riders all ride clipless, duh. In 25 years and maybe 1000 group rides, I've seen exactly 2 people riding flats and weirdly enough, both riding fixed. They not only couldn't stay with the group, they had to get off and walk hills and were never seen again, not ever. We keep an eye out for eaten-out torsos in the ditches in the spring, riders who were never seen again.
Not to say that flats are always a poor choice, but there are appropriate applications. Keeping up with clipless riders on hard rides, either road or mountain, is not one of them. Not that one can't do hard rides on flats, it's just the keeping up thing. Other than that application, it's a personal choice, whatever.
Not to say that flats are always a poor choice, but there are appropriate applications. Keeping up with clipless riders on hard rides, either road or mountain, is not one of them. Not that one can't do hard rides on flats, it's just the keeping up thing. Other than that application, it's a personal choice, whatever.
Can you imagine a rider starting a pro race, or even an amateur race, in flats? Like you, I've done thousands of club rides and it's very rare to see anyone with flat pedals on the road, and I have never seen a fixed gear rider on flats. I have ridden off road with riders who use flats and may try it myself (I keep telling myself). And there is at least one pro downhill racer who still uses flats, probably more.
No more gruesome crash pictures, please!
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Yeah, I don't see the point of posting gruesome crash pictures. Because the pic shows a person crashing with clipless pedals doesn't mean the crash was caused by the pedals.
Can you imagine a rider starting a pro race, or even an amateur race, in flats? Like you, I've done thousands of club rides and it's very rare to see anyone with flat pedals on the road, and I have never seen a fixed gear rider on flats. I have ridden off road with riders who use flats and may try it myself (I keep telling myself). And there is at least one pro downhill racer who still uses flats, probably more.
No more gruesome crash pictures, please!
Can you imagine a rider starting a pro race, or even an amateur race, in flats? Like you, I've done thousands of club rides and it's very rare to see anyone with flat pedals on the road, and I have never seen a fixed gear rider on flats. I have ridden off road with riders who use flats and may try it myself (I keep telling myself). And there is at least one pro downhill racer who still uses flats, probably more.
No more gruesome crash pictures, please!
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#61
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Mea culpa, procrastination aka laziness, anyway, inspired by your question I have just bought new pedals, beautiful red nylon flat pedals with plenty of very good reviews on amazon, ETA Monday.
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What a funny thread. We all know there's no right and wrong concerning most bike equipment, there are only differences in application. All those above photos of crashing riders have one thing in common: they're all riding clipless. Huh, wonder why that is? Well, it's because competitive riders all ride clipless, duh. In 25 years and maybe 1000 group rides, I've seen exactly 2 people riding flats and weirdly enough, both riding fixed. They not only couldn't stay with the group, they had to get off and walk hills and were never seen again, not ever. We keep an eye out for eaten-out torsos in the ditches in the spring, riders who were never seen again.
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I recently gave my MTB to a young guy in the neighborhood here that had been dreaming of buying a bike since forever and constantly hitting me up for suggestions. However, I swapped out the pedals for some cheap plastic things and kept my wonderful alloy platforms for one of my road bikes. Enjoy your new pedals and make sure you put them to use. haha (no more procrastinating)
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I’m primarily a very avid road cyclist and occasionally a blue and easy black single track rider, on a mtb. At my mediocre trail riding skill levels, clipless offers me no advantages over flat pedals and mtb shoes. Riding trails with my adult son, I occasionally get in over my head keeping up and I (please note: I said I, not you or others) like the ease of me reacting instantly to disengage my feet from the pedals, when dealing with the perceived complexity of an “oh sh*t” moment.
Your mileage may vary.
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I took my SS with "toe clips" for an extended ride the other day and wore a pair of quality running shoes.
The first thing I noticed was the lack of support due to the flex in the sole of the shoes and how mushy they felt. It didn't take long for my feet to tire in the running shoes vs my cycling shoes.
I think the solution is to try a pair of in-door soccer shoes which have a stiffer sole and narrower profile (over-all) to slip in and out of cages easier. I just hope my buddies don't think I'm getting into Soccer....not that there's anything wrong with that
The first thing I noticed was the lack of support due to the flex in the sole of the shoes and how mushy they felt. It didn't take long for my feet to tire in the running shoes vs my cycling shoes.
I think the solution is to try a pair of in-door soccer shoes which have a stiffer sole and narrower profile (over-all) to slip in and out of cages easier. I just hope my buddies don't think I'm getting into Soccer....not that there's anything wrong with that
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I think it's highly amusing that there are such emotionally charged attachments to different pedal systems displayed in this thread. In my personal experience there are advantages and disadvantages to each system but some of those differences have been way overstated here. I've been riding pretty seriously for about 40 years, and have raced, toured, done centuries, double centuries, MTB rides, and just farting around rides. On my various road bikes I currently have either toeclips + straps or clipless. On my MTB I ran toeclips and straps for a while, switched to SPDs, and then switched again to flats with gripping pins. Back in the olden days when I was racing I used toeclips + straps + cleats.
Here's my comparison of the pros and cons of the different use cases for pedal systems:
Regular Road Riding (centuries, fast group rides) - toeclips + straps (no cleats and straps not too tight) vs clipless: I find these two systems to be pretty equivalent in terms of foot retention on the pedal and ability to get into and out of the pedal. I'm just as happy riding either system, and do so interchangeably. On fast Strava segments where I'm going for speed there is zero difference between these systems. In my experience, anyone who claims that clipless systems make you go faster is drinking koolaid. The SPDs perhaps have a slight advantage in lateral rotation (given the right cleats) but I don't find this to be a big deal as long as you don't tighten your straps. Perhaps those with knee problems might find this to be more important. SPDs also might have a slight advantage on extremely steep hills where you might want to pull up hard on the back for a couple of strokes on short steep sections, although this is questionable since testing has shown that overall efficiency actually decreases when pulling up on the backstroke. The massive downside for all clipless pedals except SPD is that you can't walk in the shoes. Even with SPD, those clunky shoes with recessed cleats are not great for walking. I would NEVER tour with clipless pedals. I can see riding flats for these kinds of rides, though I haven't tried it for decades and I do like having some degree of foot retention just so my foot doesn't move around to different locations on the pedal...not a big deal though.
Road Racing - toeclips + straps + cleats and tight straps vs clipless: BITD we used toeclips + straps + cleats+ tight straps to race. The reason for the increase in degree retention here is that you do not want anything throwing you off your pedal alignment during a race. You want to be locked down and don't want to have to think about your pedals. This is where the switch to clipless made a huge difference. Not only did my feet hurt due to the straps after a couple of hours of riding, but there was absolutely zero lateral rotation and if your cleats weren't perfectly placed you could get serious knee pain (and the early nail-on cleats were NOT adjustable). Not only that, but getting out of the straps either at a sudden stop or during a crash was not assured. A big win for "clipless pedals"
MTB Off-Road or Recreational Road: flats vs SPD clipless: Pretty much every slow speed crash I've had on rocky trails has been because I was using toeclips+straps or SPD pedals and couldn't release quickly enough to make quick foot-ground contact out to steady myself. I also know some mountain bike team coaches who've been seriously injured because of this problem. This caused me to switch to flat pedals with gripping pins along with 510 sticky-soled shoes. What a revelation! Foot retention is still pretty good (though you have to be aware that and I can whip my foot off the pedal instantly. I will never go back. That said, I can see that if you are one of those folks who likes to catch "big air", flats are not for you.
Casual Riding, Grocery Getting, Short Commutes: flats or toeclips + straps, doesn't matter: There is zero reason for either toeclips+ straps or clipless for these kinds of rides. Also, why would you want to carry a second pair of shoes for the activities you want to do when you get where you're going.
Here's my comparison of the pros and cons of the different use cases for pedal systems:
Regular Road Riding (centuries, fast group rides) - toeclips + straps (no cleats and straps not too tight) vs clipless: I find these two systems to be pretty equivalent in terms of foot retention on the pedal and ability to get into and out of the pedal. I'm just as happy riding either system, and do so interchangeably. On fast Strava segments where I'm going for speed there is zero difference between these systems. In my experience, anyone who claims that clipless systems make you go faster is drinking koolaid. The SPDs perhaps have a slight advantage in lateral rotation (given the right cleats) but I don't find this to be a big deal as long as you don't tighten your straps. Perhaps those with knee problems might find this to be more important. SPDs also might have a slight advantage on extremely steep hills where you might want to pull up hard on the back for a couple of strokes on short steep sections, although this is questionable since testing has shown that overall efficiency actually decreases when pulling up on the backstroke. The massive downside for all clipless pedals except SPD is that you can't walk in the shoes. Even with SPD, those clunky shoes with recessed cleats are not great for walking. I would NEVER tour with clipless pedals. I can see riding flats for these kinds of rides, though I haven't tried it for decades and I do like having some degree of foot retention just so my foot doesn't move around to different locations on the pedal...not a big deal though.
Road Racing - toeclips + straps + cleats and tight straps vs clipless: BITD we used toeclips + straps + cleats+ tight straps to race. The reason for the increase in degree retention here is that you do not want anything throwing you off your pedal alignment during a race. You want to be locked down and don't want to have to think about your pedals. This is where the switch to clipless made a huge difference. Not only did my feet hurt due to the straps after a couple of hours of riding, but there was absolutely zero lateral rotation and if your cleats weren't perfectly placed you could get serious knee pain (and the early nail-on cleats were NOT adjustable). Not only that, but getting out of the straps either at a sudden stop or during a crash was not assured. A big win for "clipless pedals"
MTB Off-Road or Recreational Road: flats vs SPD clipless: Pretty much every slow speed crash I've had on rocky trails has been because I was using toeclips+straps or SPD pedals and couldn't release quickly enough to make quick foot-ground contact out to steady myself. I also know some mountain bike team coaches who've been seriously injured because of this problem. This caused me to switch to flat pedals with gripping pins along with 510 sticky-soled shoes. What a revelation! Foot retention is still pretty good (though you have to be aware that and I can whip my foot off the pedal instantly. I will never go back. That said, I can see that if you are one of those folks who likes to catch "big air", flats are not for you.
Casual Riding, Grocery Getting, Short Commutes: flats or toeclips + straps, doesn't matter: There is zero reason for either toeclips+ straps or clipless for these kinds of rides. Also, why would you want to carry a second pair of shoes for the activities you want to do when you get where you're going.
Last edited by davester; 03-28-21 at 12:58 PM.
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Been on clipless since around the late 80s when I bought some Looks from Performance or Nashbar (using the quaint thing called mail-order where they sent you catalogs with the order slip in the middle). Kept my traps/straps on my commuter. With my old Avocet cycling 30 shoes they work fine. If you didn't tighten the strap it wasn't much different from being on a platform pedal.
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#71
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Flat pedals for me. I commute daily and sometimes I cut through the park on the way home along a gravel path with no problem at all.
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As I get older and recuperating from a fall as couldn't unclip fast enough I am considering switching to flat pedals and 5-10 flats to ride my giant revolt advanced . Question is , is this set up suitable for light gravel and road riding , not sure how this set up will perform on 50k road rides
thanks
thanks
On a more casual ride (17 mph or less ) with stop lights or photo stops every 30 minutes the flat pedals are great.
#73
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I grew up with flats, I’ve used clipped, though I never like the the old toe straps. I’ve gone back to the flats because my knees are bad and the twist to unclip can be painful.
I’m really a you do you when it comes to pedals so I dont judge and don’t care. For myself on the bikes I have I like “Bear Traps” because they are grippy and wide.
I’m really a you do you when it comes to pedals so I dont judge and don’t care. For myself on the bikes I have I like “Bear Traps” because they are grippy and wide.
#74
Senior Member
I've ridden platform pedals (MTB) forever - I'm 58 - but I recently bought a gravel bike (Specialized Diverge) and I'm finding platform pedals very limiting. While I could easily do moderate bunny-hops on large-volume, low-pressure MTB tires (both hardtail and full-squish), I can barley get the back tire to leave the ground on my gravel bike (700cx38 tubeless). A set of SPD M540 pedals arrived today and I've got five different models of gravel/MTB shoes coming to choose from. I'm wanting to be able to bunny-hop curbs, roots, and rocks on my gravel bike at least as well as I can on a MTB. The M540's ship with SM-SH51 single-release cleats but I ordered SM-SH56 multi-release cleats to help with learning new pedal habits (and to not fall over as much).
A racer chick at the bike shop told me all about her past ankle sprains, torn ligaments, and surgeries from riding MTB events with her pedals locked-down tight. Only recently out of a foot cast, she said she's now on CrankBrothers Doubleshot pedals and explained that she cautiously clips-out and flips over as soon as she sees anything sketchy on the trail ahead. I would have thought she might be punking me by being unnecessarily graphic if she hadn't shown me the surgery scar on her ankle. VERY encouraging. Not. LOL.
A racer chick at the bike shop told me all about her past ankle sprains, torn ligaments, and surgeries from riding MTB events with her pedals locked-down tight. Only recently out of a foot cast, she said she's now on CrankBrothers Doubleshot pedals and explained that she cautiously clips-out and flips over as soon as she sees anything sketchy on the trail ahead. I would have thought she might be punking me by being unnecessarily graphic if she hadn't shown me the surgery scar on her ankle. VERY encouraging. Not. LOL.
Last edited by Motorazr; 04-30-21 at 02:46 PM.
#75
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I switched back to platform (flat) pedals about five (or maybe ten?) years ago and haven't looked back since. I do a lot of commuting and touring in stop-and-go traffic, so I really prefer being able to get my feet on and off the pedals without any hit-or-miss. I know people will say "You can get used to clipless in a day or two," but you're not going to change my mind. I rode with cages around my feet (is that called "clipped?) for almost twenty years and got caught up in them two or three times too many.
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