Track racing competitions – questions
09-08-17, 03:52 AM
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Track racing competitions – questions
Hi to all track cycling fans,
I'm working on the realtime visualizations for the track cycling events of the Six-days racing, especially for the Madison. I have certain questions related to the range to which some data can vary. I haven't manage to find the actual data anywhere, so I would be very grateful if someone with knowledge of these things can answer my questions. It doesn't necessarily has to be from six days, the things you know from UCI world championships or Olympics are also very helpful.
Lap gains:
1. How long does it take on average for a rider to gain a lap? What about extreme case (the fastest lap gain you know of, or the slowest).
2. How often does a lap gain attempt fail? What is the percentage of successful lap gains? How often is this a result of nobody joining the rider in a pursuit, or of the peloton speeding up, or the errors of the rider?
3. How many lap gains are common for an one hour Madison? What about edge cases?
6 days specific questions:
1. As I understand, each six day racing has different rules with counting points, is true? Like in Six day Amsterdam 2014 racing each 200 points gained were converted into a lap. But that didn't happen on very the last event somehow, so the winner determination was unexpected for me. And those rules differ from race to race but I can't find the regulations anywhere. What is the most common practice of points/laps conversion? Does someone has a link to such regulations?
2. Do you know where I can find full description of one of the (possibly recent) six day races with listing of all of the events on each day and the points awarded for the winners? What would be the most helpful is the detailed results of some 6 days with the breakdown of scores and laps (like e.g. team A was a winner of the 6 days in London in 2015 and they got points for the following events, taking such places on such days: .... and gained N laps in the following events on such days: ... ). I have seen the link to results on sixday.com website and was hoping to get data from there, but the link never displayed any data, and I'm trying to access it for more than half a year already.
3. Is there a 6 day event where the full video coverage of all events is accessible?
4. How often does a lead change happen? How about the changes in the first 3 places?
5. What is the usual difference at the end of 6 days between leaders, mid-range riders and outsiders in terms of laps and points?
Generic:
1. How often do extraordinary event happen, like crashes, disqualifications, race suspensions, accidental miss of the hand-sling?
Thank you so much!
I'm working on the realtime visualizations for the track cycling events of the Six-days racing, especially for the Madison. I have certain questions related to the range to which some data can vary. I haven't manage to find the actual data anywhere, so I would be very grateful if someone with knowledge of these things can answer my questions. It doesn't necessarily has to be from six days, the things you know from UCI world championships or Olympics are also very helpful.
Lap gains:
1. How long does it take on average for a rider to gain a lap? What about extreme case (the fastest lap gain you know of, or the slowest).
2. How often does a lap gain attempt fail? What is the percentage of successful lap gains? How often is this a result of nobody joining the rider in a pursuit, or of the peloton speeding up, or the errors of the rider?
3. How many lap gains are common for an one hour Madison? What about edge cases?
6 days specific questions:
1. As I understand, each six day racing has different rules with counting points, is true? Like in Six day Amsterdam 2014 racing each 200 points gained were converted into a lap. But that didn't happen on very the last event somehow, so the winner determination was unexpected for me. And those rules differ from race to race but I can't find the regulations anywhere. What is the most common practice of points/laps conversion? Does someone has a link to such regulations?
2. Do you know where I can find full description of one of the (possibly recent) six day races with listing of all of the events on each day and the points awarded for the winners? What would be the most helpful is the detailed results of some 6 days with the breakdown of scores and laps (like e.g. team A was a winner of the 6 days in London in 2015 and they got points for the following events, taking such places on such days: .... and gained N laps in the following events on such days: ... ). I have seen the link to results on sixday.com website and was hoping to get data from there, but the link never displayed any data, and I'm trying to access it for more than half a year already.
3. Is there a 6 day event where the full video coverage of all events is accessible?
4. How often does a lead change happen? How about the changes in the first 3 places?
5. What is the usual difference at the end of 6 days between leaders, mid-range riders and outsiders in terms of laps and points?
Generic:
1. How often do extraordinary event happen, like crashes, disqualifications, race suspensions, accidental miss of the hand-sling?
Thank you so much!
09-08-17, 06:57 AM
#2
aka mattio
Oh man. It’s really cool that you’re working on realtime visualizations for these events. There’s so much room for data to help tell the story of a bike race (I wrote this: https://medium.com/@montesano/data-v...t-acd52d1eda79), but a lot of production gets things wrong. I’m thinking of the UCI’s race-explainer videos, where they have pointless popups (
), like one rider labeled “Tactics”… wtf does that tell?
Re: Laps – Unfortunately, I think the answer to most of your questions are “it depends,” and that makes me wonder if they’re the right questions. The only way to answer them, if you’re looking for hard numbers, is going to be to pick a time frame, watch the entirety of World Cups, WCs, and Olympics, and get ‘em yourself.
These aren't really performance data. Because bike racing is so dynamic, it's hard to put meaningful stats to it.
Re: Sixes –
1. Yes, each six has its own points format, and there is no standard. They’re not a format recognized by the UCI, so it’s really up to each promoter to structure it as they see fit. There’s certainly nothing written. Each race (/velodrome/promoter) might have its own tradition.
2. Not that I know of.
3. I’ve seen full or nearly full replays on youtube. Here’s the 2013 Amsterdam Six, with other days available on click-through:
4. Often/who knows/it depends.
5. It varies. Often promoters will try to keep things close for the podium until the final day – they want butts in chairs through six days, so the race damn well better be decided on the final race of the final night.
Generic: eeehhh, I don’ see crashes very often in sixes – nor disqualifications. And, these riders are very good, so a missed exchange isn’t too common either.
Re: Laps – Unfortunately, I think the answer to most of your questions are “it depends,” and that makes me wonder if they’re the right questions. The only way to answer them, if you’re looking for hard numbers, is going to be to pick a time frame, watch the entirety of World Cups, WCs, and Olympics, and get ‘em yourself.
These aren't really performance data. Because bike racing is so dynamic, it's hard to put meaningful stats to it.
Re: Sixes –
1. Yes, each six has its own points format, and there is no standard. They’re not a format recognized by the UCI, so it’s really up to each promoter to structure it as they see fit. There’s certainly nothing written. Each race (/velodrome/promoter) might have its own tradition.
2. Not that I know of.
3. I’ve seen full or nearly full replays on youtube. Here’s the 2013 Amsterdam Six, with other days available on click-through:
5. It varies. Often promoters will try to keep things close for the podium until the final day – they want butts in chairs through six days, so the race damn well better be decided on the final race of the final night.
Generic: eeehhh, I don’ see crashes very often in sixes – nor disqualifications. And, these riders are very good, so a missed exchange isn’t too common either.
09-08-17, 10:45 AM
#4
Senior Member
Gaining a lap, the longest it can take I would guess could almost be the length of the race...in theory. I would imagine otherwise even just one olympics/world champs wouldn't be enough data points.
Minimum though is roughly easier to work ok I would guess:
Get data for lap speeds in bunch races...take the lowest you can find.
Do the same for top speeds.
Work out time it takes to do a lap with the difference
Minimum though is roughly easier to work ok I would guess:
Get data for lap speeds in bunch races...take the lowest you can find.
Do the same for top speeds.
Work out time it takes to do a lap with the difference
09-08-17, 12:09 PM
#5
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schleppzug, the Madison is a very difficult event to keep up with, even for experienced fans. The officials often have other officials to help as well. It's organized chaos with the most confounding factor being that only 1/2 the people on the track are actually in the race.
This sounds like an ambitious project. Have you tested your software using more basic races like a scratch race?
This sounds like an ambitious project. Have you tested your software using more basic races like a scratch race?
09-08-17, 04:10 PM
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The UCI does have rules regarding 6 days, probably the most significant of which is that the madison in a 6 day race is still based on laps gained whereas other UCI madisons are based on points scored.
Whilst the organizer does have flexibility in setting the race program they do, generally, stick to the UCI rules regarding points scoring. The 6 day rules are section 15 of the UCI track rules https://www.uci.ch/mm/Document/News/R...-E_English.PDF, but to save you searching through the entire 97 page rule book, here is the specific 6 day section:
§ 15 Six-Day Races
3.2.227 A “Six-Day Race” shall last six consecutive days with at least 24 hours’ racing time.
3.2.228 The organiser shall be free to set the duration and the programme of the “Six-Day
Race” within the limits set in article 3.2.227.
3.2.229 The “Six-Day Race” is a team race, each team comprising 2 or 3 riders who shall all
wear jerseys bearing identical riders’ number as indicated in article 1.3.044.
3.2.230 A “Six-Day Race” shall be run on a track of minimum length 140 m.
3.2.231 The organiser shall determine the number of teams according to the track length.
3.2.232 At the start of Madisons/chases (handicap races excepted), the illuminated indicator
panel shall be set to zero (0) for all teams.
After the end of the Madisons/chases, the illuminated indicator panel shall again show
the actual general placings for the race.
On the last day of race, when the final Madisons/chases is being run, the illuminated
indicator panel shall indicate the actual general placings at all times.
UCI CYCLING REGULATIONS
E0717 TRACK RACES 46
(text modified on 1.01.04)
3.2.233 [abrogated on 1st January 2004]
3.2.234 Should a mechanical mishap occur and be recognised as valid by the commissaires,
or should a rider fall, the team shall be entitled to a 1.5 km neutralisation (number of
laps closest to 1.5 km). In the case of an mishap not recognized by commissaires or
on expiry of the neutralisation, one of the team members shall resume the race 100%
from the position occupied at the moment of the mishap, failing which the team shall
be penalised by the number of laps lost.
(text modified on 1.01.04)
3.2.235 Laps gained by a team, one of whose members has been neutralised, shall be
recognised only if the rider who remained in the race covers the full distance, i.e. does
not miss a single relay.
3.2.236 During a timed Madison/chase, a team reduced to a single rider shall leave the track
10 laps before the end of the Madison/chase.
(text modified on 1.01.04)
3.2.237 The Track Manager, with the agreement of the Commissaires’ Panel, shall be entitled
to create a temporary team comprising riders whose team-mates have been
neutralised. Such riders shall wear identical jerseys and numbers. To determine the
provisional position of such a provisional team, the number of laps covered by each
of the original teams from which the members of the provisional team were drawn
shall be added, rounded down to the nearest even number and divided by two.
When the provisional team is finally disbanded, laps gained or lost and any points
won shall be credited towards the general placings of the original teams from which
each of the members of the provisional team were drawn.
3.2.238 If a rider is neutralised, his team mate shall continue the ongoing chase according to
the articles 3.2.235 and 3.2.236. If the neutralised rider is unable to continue the
following chase, all the team shall be neutralised.
After the chase, the neutralised team shall be placed in the same position as the
closest team in the general classification at the beginning of the race, including the
laps lost by this team during the chase. The gained laps shall not be considered.
Moreover, the neutralised team shall be penalised by one lap.
3.2.239 The race doctor may decide to neutralise a rider for a maximum period lasting until
36 hours, after which the rider shall be eliminated.
(text modified on 1.01.04)
3.2.240 Should a rider abandon the race, the team shall be disbanded. The remaining rider
shall participate in all the individual events.
If he has not been included in another team within 48 hours, he shall be eliminated.
UCI CYCLING REGULATIONS
E0717 TRACK RACES 47
3.2.241 Should a new team be created, account shall be taken of the placing of the best team
disbanded plus one lap’s penalty.
The points won by the two teams will be added and divided by two.
3.2.242 Points shall be awarded as follows:
- Team event; Madison, Madison-Elimination, Team Time Trial (500-1000 m): 20,
12, 10, 8, 6, 4 points
- Individual event; Points race, Elimination, Time Trial (1 lap), Derny, Scratch,
Keirin: 10, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2 points
- Sprint: 5, 3, 2, 1 points; points double during the final Madison (maximum 6,
every 10 laps).
(text modified on 10.06.05; 25.09.07)
3.2.243 As it is impossible to run all teams on track together for the same race, the event has
to be run in heats. The following procedure shall then apply:
a) 1 heat with teams from the 1st half of the general classification: with 1 rider or
per team: 10-8-6-4-2 points.
- per team (one relay in mid-race): 10, 8, 6, 4, 2 points
- Madison: 15, 10, 8, 6, 4, 2 points
1 heat with teams from the 2nd half of the general classification: with 1 rider or
per team: 10-8-6-4-2 points.
- per team (one relay in mid-race): 10, 8, 6, 4, 2 points
- Madison: 15, 10, 8, 6, 4, 2 points.
b) 2 heats with teams from the 1st half of the general classification: with 1 rider: 5-
4-3-2-1 points.
2 heats with teams from the 2nd half of the general classification: with 1 rider:
5-4-3-2-1 points.
Laps won in races behind dernys do not count for the overall ranking.
(text modified on 1.01.04)
3.2.244 In Madison/chase of the «Six-Day Race», the placing shall be determined by
distance according to the number of complete laps covered by each team plus by
accrued points.
Apart from the final Madison/chase of the «Six-Day Race», teams shall be credited
with one bonus lap for every 100 points logged.
Bonus laps can also be given in special events like time-trials, but only if all teams are
allowed to participate in the event.
(text modified on 1.01.04; 01.07.17)
3.2.245 All points won in the individual and team events shall count towards the general
placings.
All laps won in races in which there is at least one rider of each team on track shall
count towards general classification.
Laps won in Elimination races do not count for the overall ranking.
(text modified on 21.01.06)
UCI CYCLING REGULATIONS
E0717 TRACK RACES 48
3.2.246 Each day, in addition to the partial classification of the race or stage, a general
classification shall also be prepared on the basis of the number of laps completed and
points acquired.
The total distance covered over the six racing days, expressed in complete laps, and
the total number of points obtained shall determine the final classification.
The points classification shall be used to classify teams with the same number of laps.
The team with the greatest number of laps, regardless of the score obtained, shall be
declared the winner.
To distinguish team with equal laps and equal points, account shall be taken of the
finishing order of the teams in the final sprint.
Whilst the organizer does have flexibility in setting the race program they do, generally, stick to the UCI rules regarding points scoring. The 6 day rules are section 15 of the UCI track rules https://www.uci.ch/mm/Document/News/R...-E_English.PDF, but to save you searching through the entire 97 page rule book, here is the specific 6 day section:
§ 15 Six-Day Races
3.2.227 A “Six-Day Race” shall last six consecutive days with at least 24 hours’ racing time.
3.2.228 The organiser shall be free to set the duration and the programme of the “Six-Day
Race” within the limits set in article 3.2.227.
3.2.229 The “Six-Day Race” is a team race, each team comprising 2 or 3 riders who shall all
wear jerseys bearing identical riders’ number as indicated in article 1.3.044.
3.2.230 A “Six-Day Race” shall be run on a track of minimum length 140 m.
3.2.231 The organiser shall determine the number of teams according to the track length.
3.2.232 At the start of Madisons/chases (handicap races excepted), the illuminated indicator
panel shall be set to zero (0) for all teams.
After the end of the Madisons/chases, the illuminated indicator panel shall again show
the actual general placings for the race.
On the last day of race, when the final Madisons/chases is being run, the illuminated
indicator panel shall indicate the actual general placings at all times.
UCI CYCLING REGULATIONS
E0717 TRACK RACES 46
(text modified on 1.01.04)
3.2.233 [abrogated on 1st January 2004]
3.2.234 Should a mechanical mishap occur and be recognised as valid by the commissaires,
or should a rider fall, the team shall be entitled to a 1.5 km neutralisation (number of
laps closest to 1.5 km). In the case of an mishap not recognized by commissaires or
on expiry of the neutralisation, one of the team members shall resume the race 100%
from the position occupied at the moment of the mishap, failing which the team shall
be penalised by the number of laps lost.
(text modified on 1.01.04)
3.2.235 Laps gained by a team, one of whose members has been neutralised, shall be
recognised only if the rider who remained in the race covers the full distance, i.e. does
not miss a single relay.
3.2.236 During a timed Madison/chase, a team reduced to a single rider shall leave the track
10 laps before the end of the Madison/chase.
(text modified on 1.01.04)
3.2.237 The Track Manager, with the agreement of the Commissaires’ Panel, shall be entitled
to create a temporary team comprising riders whose team-mates have been
neutralised. Such riders shall wear identical jerseys and numbers. To determine the
provisional position of such a provisional team, the number of laps covered by each
of the original teams from which the members of the provisional team were drawn
shall be added, rounded down to the nearest even number and divided by two.
When the provisional team is finally disbanded, laps gained or lost and any points
won shall be credited towards the general placings of the original teams from which
each of the members of the provisional team were drawn.
3.2.238 If a rider is neutralised, his team mate shall continue the ongoing chase according to
the articles 3.2.235 and 3.2.236. If the neutralised rider is unable to continue the
following chase, all the team shall be neutralised.
After the chase, the neutralised team shall be placed in the same position as the
closest team in the general classification at the beginning of the race, including the
laps lost by this team during the chase. The gained laps shall not be considered.
Moreover, the neutralised team shall be penalised by one lap.
3.2.239 The race doctor may decide to neutralise a rider for a maximum period lasting until
36 hours, after which the rider shall be eliminated.
(text modified on 1.01.04)
3.2.240 Should a rider abandon the race, the team shall be disbanded. The remaining rider
shall participate in all the individual events.
If he has not been included in another team within 48 hours, he shall be eliminated.
UCI CYCLING REGULATIONS
E0717 TRACK RACES 47
3.2.241 Should a new team be created, account shall be taken of the placing of the best team
disbanded plus one lap’s penalty.
The points won by the two teams will be added and divided by two.
3.2.242 Points shall be awarded as follows:
- Team event; Madison, Madison-Elimination, Team Time Trial (500-1000 m): 20,
12, 10, 8, 6, 4 points
- Individual event; Points race, Elimination, Time Trial (1 lap), Derny, Scratch,
Keirin: 10, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2 points
- Sprint: 5, 3, 2, 1 points; points double during the final Madison (maximum 6,
every 10 laps).
(text modified on 10.06.05; 25.09.07)
3.2.243 As it is impossible to run all teams on track together for the same race, the event has
to be run in heats. The following procedure shall then apply:
a) 1 heat with teams from the 1st half of the general classification: with 1 rider or
per team: 10-8-6-4-2 points.
- per team (one relay in mid-race): 10, 8, 6, 4, 2 points
- Madison: 15, 10, 8, 6, 4, 2 points
1 heat with teams from the 2nd half of the general classification: with 1 rider or
per team: 10-8-6-4-2 points.
- per team (one relay in mid-race): 10, 8, 6, 4, 2 points
- Madison: 15, 10, 8, 6, 4, 2 points.
b) 2 heats with teams from the 1st half of the general classification: with 1 rider: 5-
4-3-2-1 points.
2 heats with teams from the 2nd half of the general classification: with 1 rider:
5-4-3-2-1 points.
Laps won in races behind dernys do not count for the overall ranking.
(text modified on 1.01.04)
3.2.244 In Madison/chase of the «Six-Day Race», the placing shall be determined by
distance according to the number of complete laps covered by each team plus by
accrued points.
Apart from the final Madison/chase of the «Six-Day Race», teams shall be credited
with one bonus lap for every 100 points logged.
Bonus laps can also be given in special events like time-trials, but only if all teams are
allowed to participate in the event.
(text modified on 1.01.04; 01.07.17)
3.2.245 All points won in the individual and team events shall count towards the general
placings.
All laps won in races in which there is at least one rider of each team on track shall
count towards general classification.
Laps won in Elimination races do not count for the overall ranking.
(text modified on 21.01.06)
UCI CYCLING REGULATIONS
E0717 TRACK RACES 48
3.2.246 Each day, in addition to the partial classification of the race or stage, a general
classification shall also be prepared on the basis of the number of laps completed and
points acquired.
The total distance covered over the six racing days, expressed in complete laps, and
the total number of points obtained shall determine the final classification.
The points classification shall be used to classify teams with the same number of laps.
The team with the greatest number of laps, regardless of the score obtained, shall be
declared the winner.
To distinguish team with equal laps and equal points, account shall be taken of the
finishing order of the teams in the final sprint.
09-09-17, 08:59 AM
#7
aka mattio
Thanks for that. Funny. Always thought that the UCI pretended they didn't exist - don't know how I missed that in the rulebook.
09-09-17, 06:24 PM
#8
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Gaining a lap, the longest it can take I would guess could almost be the length of the race...in theory. I would imagine otherwise even just one olympics/world champs wouldn't be enough data points.
Minimum though is roughly easier to work ok I would guess:
Get data for lap speeds in bunch races...take the lowest you can find.
Do the same for top speeds.
Minimum though is roughly easier to work ok I would guess:
Get data for lap speeds in bunch races...take the lowest you can find.
Do the same for top speeds.
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