Polaris OBark

I am thinking of getting this "down country" bike, because I want a mountain bike that would complement, rather than completely overlap with, my gravel bike's capabilities. At the same time, I don't want an Enduro Brodozer.

Canyon Lux Trail

This is the bike design that Trek ripped off from Canyon, and Specialized has now ripped off from Trek.

The XT version is what I am coveting, but the SLX is on sale, albeit in an ugly color. It would be the most sensible purchase.

Canyon sizing is a bit wonky. I sit right on the border between small and medium. (I also tried out the Trek Supercaliber 9.7, and my best fit is to their large.)

My previous experience with Canyon was a bit mixed, but what I can say is they actually do service their warranty claims. Unfortunately, I got to test that 3 times. The customer service gauntlet is the low point. At least I can put the bike together without having to read the directions.

prj71

This would not be a correct statement since the Trek Supercaliber and the Specialized rip off of that bike do not have a pivot point connected to the seat tube and seat stay. But there numerous bikes out there that are just like the Canyon design.

Anyway...The bike looks nice but looking at their sizing it looks different than most. Based on Stack and Reach I would be on a Small. ???? All of my current bikes are mediums. Weird.

The $1500 difference in price seems to be in the Carbon Wheels and the XT drivetrain and the bikes are only about 1lb difference in weight. Could always get the SLX and uprade wheels and drivetrain at a later date for less than $1500.

Polaris OBark

The sizing is very strange.

Also, I took a look at the Pinkbike review. It wasn't very favorable.

prj71

Not sure what your budget is, but I'll throw these out there...

https://spotbikes.com/products/ryve-...40982835298338

https://intensecycles.com/products/s...40544156712983

My only experience with Canyon is a few friends that own their road bikes and they love them.

Kapusta

I am curious what aspect of the Lux you think Trek ripped off from Canyon?

Polaris OBark

Seat stay flex replacing pivot.

It was a bit of a flippant comment. (Nobody seems particularly perturbed with the suggestion that Specialized ripped off Trek.)

Kapusta

That design has been around long before Canyon used it.

Pretty sure Gary Fisher used it on the Sugar back in the early 2000s. And there have been several others since then.

I think it just goes without saying that if Trek did not rip it off, then Spec did not either. It is a old design idea.

Polaris OBark

Well, it is unlikely to be older than carbon mountain bike frames.

Polaris OBark

prj71 We actually have an Intense in the garage. Recently, Costco was selling their XC bike. I was very much tempted.

Edit: They still do https://www.costco.com/intense-951-x...100691780.html

Kapusta

I don't follow your point.

CF MTB frames have been around since before 2000.

Polaris OBark

Bringing this back on topic, Canyon is having a summer sale. The XT level Lux Trail is reduced by a few $100. This is quite a change from peak pandemic shortages, where waiting lists were long, and some new bikes (like the Grizl) were snapped up within hours.

Polaris OBark

Then find some other threads to post in. Bye Bye!

Kapusta

Translation: You don’t have a point.

You made a mistake in thinking/stating that Trek ripped off Canyon’s flex stay design. No big deal, we all make mistakes. But rather than simply accepting the correction that this was not the case, you make an irrelevant nonsensical point to confuse the issue.

Fine, its clear you know you were mistaken.

So yeah… bye bye.

prj71

I don't know if Trek copied or ripped of some previous design with their SuperCaliber Isostrut but damn...Specialized outright ripped off what Trek did with their Epic Worldcup.

Polaris OBark

I have two:

(1) Nobody made a carbon mountain bike in which flexible stays replaced the pivots until Canyon did. (Trek admittedly has a superior implementation of the idea.) I'll accept your "correction" if and when you supply evidence (not speculation) to the contrary.

(2) You need to get a life.

Don't let your kickstand kick you in the arse on your way out.

Eric F 

That was my first impression, as well.

Polaris OBark

Yeah, for a company that so vigorously defends its intellectual property, like "Roubaix," it is quite remarkable.

Meanwhile, I noticed that I could now purchase the Trek e-caliber for only $50 more than the discounted price of the supercaliber. Apart from the wheels, it appears to have better components (eg XT quad piston brakes, fork). You can take the motor and battery out and you have a conventionally-powered bike with only a 5 lb weight penalty (presumably beefier frame). I am going to take a look at that.

I test-rode the (conventional) SuperCaliber, and I was really pleased with the fit.

Eric F 

The Supercaliber is on my short list of dream bikes, but was out of my financial reach when I was in the market for a MTB. I bought a used Procaliber 9.9SL (hardtail), built with top-end lightweight parts, and I'm very happy with it. For me, a 5lb weight penalty would be intolerable. However, I fully recognize that I have unreasonable weight-weenie tendencies, and am fully aware that I'm carrying far too many extra lbs on my ass.

Polaris OBark

Cool, finally the on-topic conversation I was hoping for!

The Supercaliber 9.7 is currently on sale for $4.6K ($500 off). At that price point (which is now $600 more than the full XT Canyon Lux Trail), it has a bit of a mix of components, including a relatively lower-end fork, lower-end brakes, e*13 crankset which reportedly doesn't play too well with the SLX chain, cassette and XT rear derailleur), but it is a bit lighter (maybe 1 lb) than the full XT Canyon, and I fit the large really well.

I've been mostly gravel biking the last 10 years mainly because most modern mountain bikes feel FAR to heavy to me, and frankly I kind of suck at mountain biking. My hope would be a lighter-weight XC (SuperCaliber) or downcountry (Lux Trail) would feel more enjoyable to ride than a big heavy Enduro Bro sled. Maybe I am simply delusional and the bike weight is the least of my problems...

Eric F 

Have you considered looking at the used market? My most recent 3 bike purchases (road, MTB, and gravel) were all used buys, and I found good-great deals on each of them. For the price-point you're considering, there will be some really good 1-2yo options out there. It seems like you have a pretty good handle on what you want, and what size it needs to be.

Here's a different take on things...
A good friend of mine bought a full-suspension Intense MTB (not sure of the model, not a full-on DH model). He swaps out his fork, wheels, and stem/handlebar depending on the kind of ride he's doing. For XC type riding, he runs narrower/faster/lighter tires on light wheels, a 100mm fork, and a longer/lower stem with a straight bar. For chairlift days or enduro riding, it's beefier wheels and tires, a 120mm fork, and riser bars with a short stem. The XC setup is about 23lbs. Enduro style adds about 3 lbs. He can do the swap in 15-20 minutes. IMO, it's pretty damn clever.

Kapusta

Ah, moving the goalpost. Now its the first carbon fiber flex pivot (as if simply making an existing design out of CF instead of metal was in some way a novel or innovative concept).

OK, so when did Canyon introduced this? I assume you will document this since you frown upon memory and speculation.

Polaris OBark

We actually have a used 2017 or 2018 Intense Tracer foundation in the garage we bought second-hand for my daughter. My son already swapped forks without telling her...




They cleverly omitted water bottle mounts.

Polaris OBark

Kapusta :

Polaris OBark

My wife helpfully argues that getting a more capable bike is not going to make me suddenly become a more capable rider.

Eric F 

She might not be wrong - LOL.

Although I lust after a Supercal (and a couple of others), I intentionally bought a hardtail. I’m at a point in my life where getting home structurally intact after every ride is important. A FS bike is going to allow me to ride faster on terrain that can do more damage to my body. If I make a mistake, the consequences are increased. My skills aren’t what they used to be, my reflexes are slower, and my eyesight is worse. I’m good with trying to be as fast as I can be going uphill, but I no longer need to be the fastest jackass going downhill.