thrasher9905

Carbolite frames are okay on weight, and the ride quality is really nice. So what's the big deal? Why does everybody have to jump at them and call them junk?

Lascauxcaveman 

I don't. I had a PH10LE made from that "junk" and it was fine; just a bit too small for me. And you're right, it's actually pretty light stuff.

bikemig 

Two of my all time favorite bikes were a pug uo-8 and uo-10. I need another bike like I need a hole in my head but I'd buy a pug again in my size in a flash if one popped up on the local CL and the price/condition was OK.

catgita

Air don't hate it at all. So it can't be everyone. But then I never heard of it either.

thinktubes 

They...just...do.

rando_couche

Those who do have obviously never ridden one. The UO8 is one of the best-riding bikes EVER, Carbolite/gaspipe tubing or not.

SP
OC, OR

RobbieTunes

I don't, but the bike I had with it needed killing, bad.

John E

What exactly is the difference between the plain gauge carbon steel on my 1970 UO-8 and Carbolite 103? I noticed that the Carbolite frames tend to lack external lugs.

Road Fan

Is there anyone who hates Carbolite?

RobbieTunes

I volunteer. Somebody has to.

rhm

I have nothing against Carbolite 103 pipe. Very fine pipe. Not tubing, if you look close, but if you need some gas pipe, it is fine stuff.

The bikes Peugeot made from said pipng in the early 80's were cheap and ugly and came mummified in plastic shrink wrap that had to be cut away with a sharp blade. Pain in the abs. I hated those bikes. Nice pipe, though.

nlerner

Tubing haters gotta hate.

Dave Cutter

also had a Peugeot UO8 made with the carbolite 103. The steel wheels were crap.... but it still rode nice.

brianinc-ville

I like it. Actually, I like it a lot. But if you're looking for a real answer to your question: I think a lot of people are convinced that Reynolds and Columbus are magic and therefore everything else must suck. It's kind of the same reason Yankees fans are so annoying.

kunsunoke 

Reynolds 531 and Columbus SL are magic, but that doesn't mean 103 is bad. It's fine for what it was designed to do - be built into internally-brazed and inexpensive sport road bikes.

rhm

Zackly. It's not the tubing. Well, okay, it's not tubing at all but rather welded pipe. But aside from the welded pipe, it's not the welded pipe. It's the junk bikes they made from it.

Full disclosure: I have a carbolite Peugeot frame in my shed that I'll be happy to send to anyone who wants it, you pay shipping. I'll throw in all the parts I can find that came from it, including a stronglight crank (but no spindle , that was actually useful!). It's smallish, maybe 55 cm. Blue. I think it's junk, but if you disagree, I can make it your problem.

Velocivixen

I have observed some very elitist cyclists. I was shocked by them on my first metric century ride, and do not notice this "elitism" when doing running races. I chalk it up to the fact that, with cycling, there is more gear involved (I.e. A bike), and it is often clear whose bike costs more. Not all the cyclists had "attitude" but I was very surprised by this, especially because in the PNW folks are generally very friendly.

So, some with fancy gear feel the need to make it known that their sh*t is better than yours. I just laugh under my breath.

randyjawa 

I like Carbolite 103 a lot! I have owned a wide variety of great, high end, super tubing, chrome plated - you name it. And you know what..?

I don't think the type of tubing has all that much to do with actual ride quality. People who poop on Carbo103 are, well, hard to understand, in my book.

jimmuller 

I happen to like my UO-8 very much. It's a bit heavier than my other bikes (save one) but it rides nicely and feels quite spry. But then, it predates at least the name Carbolite 103.

top506

Drop them on the hills. Tends to get the conversation off the hardware.

Top

bikemig 

They were crap. I built new wheels for my UO8 and replaced the cottered crank with a cotterless one. The UO-10 was nicer because it came with good guality alloy wheels (normandy high flange hubs, rigida rims) and a cotterless crank.

rhm

+1. Will someone please explain what we are talking about? I associate "Carbolite 103" with a last-ditch effort by Peugeot to keep a toehold in the American market. I admire the effort. The bikes were cheap and lacked all the style of the Old UO8's. Mechanics hated them.

Any bike that is loved and ridden is totally fine with me. I see old UO8's (and the like) on the streets all the time. Carbolite ones, not so much.

verktyg 

@jimmuller

"I come not to bury Caesar's bike but to praise it.
I've seen bikes I'd rather not ride. I give them no tribute."

"Tuyau pour le gaz" - Gas pipe tubing got a bad rap in bicycles because it's made of seamed low strength, low alloy carbon steel - like pipe used for natural gas in homes and buildings. It's cheap to manufacture!

Seamed gas pipe:



Seamed chain stay tube:



To compensate for the reduced strength and fatigue resistance of low alloy carbon steel, the tubing walls are made thicker. This adds weight to the frame. It also reduces the amount of desirable flex, in say the forks, which absorb shock and road vibrations.

Those kinds of frames have a "dead" feeling compared to one made with thinner walled high strength alloy steel tubing like Reynolds 531, Columbus, Tange and others.

I've seen cheap department store bikes with 3mm (1/8") thick main frame tubes. 42 Lb. Schwinns were probably that thick too! The wall thickness of the 3 main tubes on most entry level European bikes ranged from 1.5mm to 2mm thick.

In contrast the wall thickness of the 3 main tubes in many production bikes made with "butted" Reynolds 531 tubes was 1.0mm at the butted ends and 0.7mm thick in the rest of the tube. Better quality or custom frames frequently used main tubes with 0.9mm x 0.6mm wall thickness or even thinner.

Only the top tubes and down tubes on those bikes were "double butted". The seat tubes and steerers were single butted. The rest of the tubes had tapered or straight gage wall thicknesses.




The tensile strength of seamed low carbon steel tubing ranged from 20,000 psi to about 70.000 psi with most being in the middle. Some aluminum alloys can be heat treated to over 60.000 psi!

The strength of alloy steels like Reynolds 531, Super Vitus 971, plus Columbus SL and SP, Tange, Ishiwata and other brands made of 4130 Chrome Moly steel is ~125,000 psi in the pre-brazed condition.

The higher alloy steels that came out in the 1980s had tensile strength in excess of 150,000 psi which allowed the use of tubes with a wall thickness as thin as 0.3mm without sacrificing frame strength!

Peugeot's Carbolite 103, Gitane's Aerotube 102 and so on were marketing hype. Pure Bull Pucky! The steel was probably bog standard grade 1030, maybe 1020 in the case of Gitane.




The 3 main tubes probably had wall thicknesses of ~1.2mm thick vs. 1.5mm The steel used was probably near 70.000 psi. This was nothing new! Many lower priced French bikes from the bike boom used that kind of tubing too - for example Bertin, Stella and Liberia.

In the early 80's Peugeot, Gitane and Motobecane started producing bikes with lugless furnace brazed frames. They all published a bunch of BS as to how great this process was. The only thing great was that it substantially lowered the manufacturing costs!



The process was nothing new... Preformed pieces of brazing alloy where placed on the insides and outsides of the tubing at the joints and then put in a furnace and heated until the alloy melted. In the US many cheap department store bikes were made that way... same thing with cheap furniture on other household goods!

I think that most of the disdain comes from the fact that these frames were completely devoid of any semblance hand crafted workmanship. They were pure production line products!

I'm reluctant to criticize other folks pride and joy bicycles. For me it's not hate but a negative attitude towards all of the BS about how great those kinds of bikes were...

They were made to look flashy and be affordable. Same view towards 42 Lb. Schwinn tanks!

Anyway, enjoy your bikes and happy riding!

BTW, I like light weight lugged alloy steel frames because of the hand crafted workmanship and the smooth ride they provide. I stopped weighing my bikes over 30 years ago because I realized on a hard climb the bike's weight was all that I thought about!

verktyg

Chas.

Thumpic

Because it sounds like a brand of yogurt?

randyjawa 

When I hear this tubing is better than that tubing, I, like Velovixen, chuckle to myself.

I have kept five or six bicycles, out of a hundred or so that I have found, built up and ridden extensively, all made from different tubing sets.

The Waterford is Reynolds 753 with 531 forks...



The Cyclops is Excell double butted shrunk over a carbon fiber core...



The Bianchi is (good grief, I am actually going to admit it) aluminum...



The Motobecane is Vitus tubed...



The Legnano is Columbus something or other...



The Atala is also a Columbus tuber...



And, though I left it in Jamaica for good reason last Winter, the Peugeot Course (yup Carbolite 103) proved, once again to be an very nice riding bicycle...



I kept these five or six steeds simply because their ride qualities (with the exception of the Legnano) were among the best of all the bikes I have owned, built and ridden enough to warrant comparing to all the others...

I could care less about what the tube set is, unless, of course, I am trying to impress others, and why would I want to do that?