Paul Barnard

In today's installment of Paying Attention is Actually Free, we start at the intersection of Central Ave and Airline Highway in Metairie Louisiana. The traffic light was green for Northbound Central and for Southbound Houma (Houma becomes Central at the intersection.) Traffic was moderately heavy on Airline and eastbound cars stopped at the light were backed up about 15 deep in all lanes. I was cooking it at about 23 MPH as I entered the intersection. There were no vehicles approaching from the opposite/northbound side of Central due to a train across the tracks about 1/4 mile away. My primary threat was anyone who would run the red light. Since traffic was already stopped, that was unlikely. The right turn lane from eastbound airline onto southbound central was open though. I noticed a white SUV moving through the lane quickly. They are controlled by the red light rather than a yield sign. Stopping is required.

At this point, I'd normally start scrubbing speed, but since the oncoming lane was vacant due to the train crossing, I kept on cooking, figuring that lane would afford me an out. I arrived at the same time the driver blew through the red and turned onto Central. At this point I was passing the vehicle. I looked over to see a young woman playing with her phone. I gave an audible WTF. She looked up, astonished to see me there in my neon pink shirt and neon yellow helmet. She appeared to lip "I am sorry, I didn't see you." To that I gestured with my hand as if I was holding a cell phone and shook my head in disgust. When we arrived where traffic was stopped for the train, she pulled off into a parking lot to turn around. I guess she didn't feel comfortable stopping behind me.



Onto the loop at Audubon Park. On loop one, a 300+ pound man with headphones was walking in the walking lane as I was approaching from behind in the cycling lane. He hooked a hard right without looking and walked into my path. I had to brake hard to avoid finding out how a titanium frame would hold up in an impact with a heavy. On loop 4 there were 3 pedestrians walking abreast ON the bicycle symbol. I very politely, no really, told them that they were in the bicycle lane. Last time I saw them, they were still in it. There are pedestrian makings in the left lane and cycling markings in the right lane about every 150 feet. There is NO missing them. The "keep off" markings that separate handlebars from flailing hands are routinely ignored. It's as if the pedestrians, most of whom likely drive, have no idea what they mean.



You'd think with that paying attention was expensive based on the number of people who avoid it.

urbanknight

I was recently cut off by someone pulling into traffic and was able to clearly see through the rear window (which I almost crashed into) that he was holding a phone to his ear. I tried to tell him to hang up, but he was still yapping away and apparently still unaware of my existence. I would have knocked on the window, but didn't want to frighten the teen in the passenger seat who was trying to pretend not to see me either.

FBinNY 

There's a long running debate over the right on red (after stop) laws.

Study after study shows that many (possibly most) are totally unaware of the obligation to stop first. Another large segment doesn't yield either.

As a cyclist, I know that many don't stop, others don't look, and among the few that actually stop and look, many still won't see me, and lastly those last few will probably misjudge my speed and distance. It's just a fact of life we need to factor.

Paul Barnard

You nailed it. A fact that we'd do well to add to our defensive riding arsenal.

BikeLite

At 21 seconds that car pulling out is at least 6-7 car lengths ahead of you. Share the road. flame on.

work4bike

I've seen a lot worse examples of people pulling out into traffic, causing many motorists to apply heavy pressure on their brakes. BTW, what were those blinking lights at the bottom of the vehicle? They were blinking like hazard lights, but they were not

urbanknight

Maybe it’s the wide angle lens, but it was definitely not 6-7 car lengths. I came about 8 feet* away from the rear bumper braking HARD.
*I reviewed the video and paused it at my closest and there’s one of those 6’ diameter inductive loop sensors between us plus maybe a couple of feet. It seemed a little closer at the time.
** I reviewed it again and can see 3 parked cars plus enough space for about 2 more on the right. That's 5 car lengths or about 75', which according to this guy is just barely enough to stop safely (which was my experience). FYI I was going 24 mph, 20% faster than the example.
https://injurysmartlaw.com/stopping-...reaction-time/

They were reflecting my blinking headlight.

And yes, I’ve had worse where I ended up right next to the car by the time I could slow down. Both are poor driving. I don’t mind slowing down for someone pulling in front of me, but having to brake hard to avoid hitting them means they didn’t have enough space to pull out safely.

Korina

A few days ago I was walking up I Street towards 8th, where there's an all-way stop sign. When I was 7 feet from the curb a nitwit in a large pickup on 8th screamed past me to the intersection, tapped his brake, and continued straight through. When his foot was near his brake I saw him whip his head back and forth, but I don't think he saw anything, including me. The worst part was the tween-age boy in the passenger seat. Small, low-speed streets with generally well-behaved drivers, but there always has to be one.

JoeyBike

Same here. I realize in a busy city motorists have to "make their move" eventually. I fully expect other vehicles to pull out in front of me and I don't care UNLESS i have to hit the brakes so hard the ABS kicks in. That raises my blood pressure a tick or two.

On the other hand, when I use my turn signal to indicate a lane change I am TELLING the other guy what I AM DOING, not asking his/her permission. Motorists here see a turn signal as a sign of weakness so using my turn indicator for lane changes is a signal for them to speed up and PREVENT me from getting in front of them. I basically put on my signal, count to three, and start moving over gently. Often creates a bunch of horn blowing. When the shoe is on the other foot I take my foot off the gas and flash my brights to let them in. I don't care if people "get ahead" of me.

Anyway, I just try not to be a dick and have little regret if someone trying to be a dick attempts to cut me off. There is always ample room when I activate my signal. It's their choice to create a problem.

Iride01 

Good tale to tell. Glad you were alert and everything worked out on the good side of things.

However I am curious about you saying that the right turn lane is obligated to stop. If you are saying the car was eastbound and turned right, then there aren't any stop bars in that turn through. And I'm having a hard time seeing a light... or is there a actual stop sign. So the isn't car obligated to stop unless there is traffic it must yield to... or a stop sign or light, in which case they should paint stop bars on that turn lane.

Or were you northbound and the car westbound on Airline turning right onto Houma/Central? In which case the car had a stop bar in that right turn lane and is required to stop on red before turning.

But in either case you clearly had the right-of-way. The car should have stopped.

I have that last situation coming back from many of my rides. The right turn lane is as the one on the north side of airline with the stop bar going across. People turning right there are too use to ignoring the red and continue their turn without stopping. I do have to be wary. I've actually played chicken with a few just so I could make them slam on brakes.

livedarklions

Same intersection from the ground--Airline and Central Definitely stoplights.

FBinNY 

State laws vary, but I don't think on this point. At unregulated intersections, entering traffic from a side road must yield to traffic on the main road. This applies whether going straight or turning. So, while the entering driver isn't necessarily bound to make a full stop, he's still obligated to yield.

On the flip side, cyclists need to be mindful that drivers quickly scanning the road for oncoming traffic may not see them, or misjudge their speed and distance. Sometimes the laws of nature trump the laws of man.

flangehead

Mr. Newton’s laws are strictly enforced in all jurisdictions.

Iride01 

No I wasn't questioning if there are stoplights. What I'm questioning is whether the right turn through for eastbound traffic actually has a light.

Your ground view from Google maps is likely dated compared to the view that the OP provided. Airline has three lanes going straight, one left turn lane and one right turn lane. If I was driving that, then I'd view the three traffic lights that are green in this picture as being for the three lanes going straight. And that the offset of them is due to construction and being on temporary poles.


However as FBinNY said and I also said, the turning car should have yielded for any traffic coming through the intersection. Since the obvious thing is that the driver didn't see the OP, it might be that if the timing was right and the car stopped, then it may have taken off and collided with the OP. Just because a car stops as required by signage doesn't mean they will see you.

If that light is for the turn through, then stop bars painted on the road would reinforce the idea that the light is for the turn lane. Or that light should be changed to have a green arrow pointing right and a red arrow pointing right when it's red. Which it might have a red arrow, but we just don't know from this picture. Maybe the OP will fill us in on the missing bits.

base2 

Sort of like maybe the other person feels that your move is unsafe and encouraging not to do it.

Ever take the lane to force drivers to do the safe action?

Somehow this seems related. But I can't quite put my finger on it...

livedarklions

This makes no sense to me at all. The significance of a the red signal is that it is telling you that you have to presume there is traffic in the cross street and you have to stop for it. A right turn is the exception for having to wait out the entire duration of the red light but you're still required to stop to ascertain no cross traffic. Why would the existence of a turn lane create an exception to the duty to stop on red before proceeding with the turn? That turn lane doesn't make it any less likely that someone is coming through the intersection on the cross street. I'm thinking of this from the driver's point of view--I would definitely assume a duty to stop before proceeding to the turn. I'd have to see a statute that stated clearly to the contrary to believe otherwise as I can't see any reason for the exception that makes the slightest sense. As a cyclist, I'm not sure it makes any difference as drivers do the right turn on red without stopping routinely anyway, turn lane or no. When I see a car approaching the intersection as I'm going through it, I generally give them wide berth as possible on the assumption that they might just run the light or take a right turn without stopping.

Iride01 

On turn throughs I've always been told that only yielding is necessary unless there is a light or stop bars. That seems to fit with the fact that on some roads here, we have turn lanes and turn throughs with the stop bar going all the way across them and some have the stop bar stopping at the lane to the left. In fact, on some turn throughs they reinforce the fact it's yield only by painting little solid triangles going across it. And other places it's a solid line and some places, nothing at all.

Here it's rare that a right turn lane doesn't have a stop bar, but there are a few, I just can't remember where I've seen them. If I do I'll grab a pic. However it's also rare that a turn through or something that has a island between it and the other lanes isn't just a yield where I'm at. Many having a yield sign or the funny little triangles on the road that help to keep one from stopping beyond them where they'd interfere with the traffic in the lane they are joining.

But certainly different jurisdictions are different. Where you are, it might be as you say. I have been to Metairie and other places in and around New Orleans quite often, but I just don't know what their rules are specifically. Their signage, signals and other stuff about driving around there as well as just the drivers themselves makes it a different world entirely from most every other place in the USA, I've ever been!

livedarklions

I lived in New Orleans for a year in the mid-1980s and was bike commuting. It was definitely interesting.

I think where I live, the rule would be yield only if the turn lane had split off from the main road so that it as more like an entrance to the road rather than the 90 degree turn. The OP intersection is sort of halfway there, so I can see the confusion. Looking at it a bit closer, you might very well be right. However, as a driver, I wouldn't assume that the overhanging traffic light was there by accident, but that would probably be my risk averse nature..

Iride01 

Well to be clear, I and I think most every driver would always look for traffic and yield to them regardless of whether or not a light, stop sign, yield sign, bars painted on the road or anything else. So the presence of the light is somewhat immaterial.

I think in this case the driver just didn't look good enough or they were distracted by their phone or something else and failed to yield.

Paul Barnard

In the absence of a yield sign, the traffic light controls the intersection. They are repaving and repainting the road right now. Even if a yield sign were present or yield were presumed, that didn't happen. The primary point of the post was to point to how distracted and oblivious people are, and that we have to ride as defensively as possible.

JoeyBike

I do not attempt to change lanes unless there is plenty of space and the vehicle in the lane I want to go to isn't roaring up behind me already. Sometimes when I activate my signal the vehicle I will soon be in front of makes no change, but often enough they stomp the accelerator to prevent me from "getting ahead" of them. Either way, I'm coming.

On the other hand, when a vehicle ahead of me wants to move to my lane, I let off the accelerator and flash my brights. Truckers understand this as do most motorists. I do not care if someone "gets ahead" of me.

Just wanted to clarify.

njkayaker

There's a yield sign for people using the right turn lane onto Central.

https://www.bing.com/maps/?cp=29.975...l=13.6&style=x

No light for the right turn lane. Just a yield sign.

The Google Streetview shot is too old and shows the intersection under construction (which isn't likely to be representative of the complete intersection).

njkayaker

In such a configuration, there would need to be a light for each lane (one light wouldn't be used to cover 2 or more lanes).

https://www.bing.com/maps/?cp=29.975...l=13.6&style=x

The right turn lane has a yield sign.

Iride01 

Yeah that's sort of what I was getting at. Most turn throughs are a yield. I finally saw it on the Bing maps street view you provided. And I went back to the Google maps streetview that livedarklions provided and finally got a shot of the yield sign on that apparently older imaging. However at that time the yield sign had been run over and it was almost laying on the ground.

njkayaker

That was 1/2022. It's back up in 2/2022.

Regardless of the existence of the sign, the proper way to deal with that kind of intersection is to look for cross traffic and yield to any.