Any other Clydes/Athenas use TrainerRoad and have high FTP?
02-12-15, 08:36 PM
#26
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02-12-15, 08:37 PM
#27
SuperGimp
Alright, clearly there's only one solution. When it warms up, go take your bike outside, find a 10 mile road with no traffic signals or any mechanical interruptions and ride out and back as fast as you can, and report back. 
The gold standard is one hour, of course.
With a legit FTP of 547, and no wind, your time should be more along the lines of 42 minutes (28 mph). Play with this calculator for some off-the-bike fun in your spare time: Bicycle Speed (Velocity) And Power Calculator
But really, it doesn't matter what your trainer reports your power at as long as it measures consistently and you ride consistently. Have fun out there.
The gold standard is one hour, of course.
With a legit FTP of 547, and no wind, your time should be more along the lines of 42 minutes (28 mph). Play with this calculator for some off-the-bike fun in your spare time: Bicycle Speed (Velocity) And Power Calculator
But really, it doesn't matter what your trainer reports your power at as long as it measures consistently and you ride consistently. Have fun out there.
02-12-15, 08:38 PM
#28
SuperGimp
02-12-15, 09:24 PM
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Miguel Indurain is the most monstrous professional the world has ever seen, and only averaged 510W over his 1994 hour ride. Post-retirement (just riding with his sons) by age 46 he was down to just 370.
Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 02-12-15 at 09:32 PM.
02-12-15, 10:14 PM
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It would be foolish to presume an historical precedent as the limit of possibility. Nothing in the world works like that.
02-12-15, 10:41 PM
#31
Senior Member
Alright, clearly there's only one solution. When it warms up, go take your bike outside, find a 10 mile road with no traffic signals or any mechanical interruptions and ride out and back as fast as you can, and report back.
The gold standard is one hour, of course.
With a legit FTP of 547, and no wind, your time should be more along the lines of 42 minutes (28 mph). Play with this calculator for some off-the-bike fun in your spare time: Bicycle Speed (Velocity) And Power Calculator
But really, it doesn't matter what your trainer reports your power at as long as it measures consistently and you ride consistently. Have fun out there.
The gold standard is one hour, of course.
With a legit FTP of 547, and no wind, your time should be more along the lines of 42 minutes (28 mph). Play with this calculator for some off-the-bike fun in your spare time: Bicycle Speed (Velocity) And Power Calculator
But really, it doesn't matter what your trainer reports your power at as long as it measures consistently and you ride consistently. Have fun out there.
Last edited by dr_lha; 02-13-15 at 09:02 AM.
02-13-15, 11:31 PM
#32
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I think consistency is probably more accurate than overall reliability. i.e., TrainerRoad caters workouts based on your abilities, which it gathers from consistent power levels. And you can see improvements similarly. But, sheesh, that's high.
Now if you get a 'real' power meter and you've still got an FTP that high; then we expect to see you drop some weight and in the Pro Peloton..
Also; does your trainer have variable resistance? Mine, for example, has a "3", "4", and "5" profile on TrainerRoad, which correspond to resistance levels. If I set my resistance all the way down to 1, and used the "5" profile, I'd have a through-the-roof FTP. You might find TrainerRoad has multiple profiles for your trainer, etc.
At the end of the day though, even their most accurate profiles are often a ways away from a power meter. What matters is, the profiles are really close to a power meter over a large range. They follow the same curve. So if TrainerRoad says you're doing 50% more power on this interval than the rest interval, then your PowerMeter would probably say the same thing if you had one.
Now if you get a 'real' power meter and you've still got an FTP that high; then we expect to see you drop some weight and in the Pro Peloton..
Also; does your trainer have variable resistance? Mine, for example, has a "3", "4", and "5" profile on TrainerRoad, which correspond to resistance levels. If I set my resistance all the way down to 1, and used the "5" profile, I'd have a through-the-roof FTP. You might find TrainerRoad has multiple profiles for your trainer, etc.
At the end of the day though, even their most accurate profiles are often a ways away from a power meter. What matters is, the profiles are really close to a power meter over a large range. They follow the same curve. So if TrainerRoad says you're doing 50% more power on this interval than the rest interval, then your PowerMeter would probably say the same thing if you had one.
Last edited by RomansFiveEight; 02-13-15 at 11:47 PM.
02-15-15, 02:55 AM
#33
Senior Member
I suspect Romans58 is onto the source of this reporting error. If you're trainer isn't delivering as much resistance at "5" as TR's algorythm is written for, you'll experience high readings.
Cable stretch could easily be to blame.
Try one of the progressive fluid trainers with no adjuster and see how you do.
Cable stretch could easily be to blame.
Try one of the progressive fluid trainers with no adjuster and see how you do.
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02-16-15, 09:58 AM
#34
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Thanks for all the replies thus far!
It might be a bit of time before I can just test things on my own outside. Lately its only seasonable for my mountain bike with studded tires.
That being said, I'm calling places in Ottawa & Montreal this week to see if I can arrange for more accurate power test.
As was mentioned though, as long as its consistently wrong, I'll keep working with it.
re: the resistance setting, I think I covered this already. It is definitely set right. I check it every single time too.
When I approached Trainer Road with this problem, they asked me a lot of questions about the setup of my bike & trainer. I made sure to detail everything with either pictures or video. If anyone would like to troubleshoot in more detail, pass me an email address and I will send these to you.
Incidentally Trainer Road support was really great at going over every little detail; frankly I doubt they've made any money off me with the amount of time their support sunk into this issue.
I don't think there is an issue with cable stretch either. My trainer was purchased brand-new in November. I also bought my wife the exact same model (JetBlack Pro M1) at the same time. If I switch trainers with her I get the exact same result. She's not on TrainerRoad but when she does a workout her speed is close to what it normally is outside. It is possible that two brand new trainers are faulty in the exact same way (only at higher resistance) but I doubt it.
If I were to hazard what is going on here, I would think that maybe their power curve is not correct for the highest setting of my trainer. I like the idea of trying out a fluid based trainer and seeing if I get a similar result. I will try to borrow one and get back with some results.
It might be a bit of time before I can just test things on my own outside. Lately its only seasonable for my mountain bike with studded tires.
That being said, I'm calling places in Ottawa & Montreal this week to see if I can arrange for more accurate power test.
As was mentioned though, as long as its consistently wrong, I'll keep working with it.
re: the resistance setting, I think I covered this already. It is definitely set right. I check it every single time too.
When I approached Trainer Road with this problem, they asked me a lot of questions about the setup of my bike & trainer. I made sure to detail everything with either pictures or video. If anyone would like to troubleshoot in more detail, pass me an email address and I will send these to you.
Incidentally Trainer Road support was really great at going over every little detail; frankly I doubt they've made any money off me with the amount of time their support sunk into this issue.
I don't think there is an issue with cable stretch either. My trainer was purchased brand-new in November. I also bought my wife the exact same model (JetBlack Pro M1) at the same time. If I switch trainers with her I get the exact same result. She's not on TrainerRoad but when she does a workout her speed is close to what it normally is outside. It is possible that two brand new trainers are faulty in the exact same way (only at higher resistance) but I doubt it.
If I were to hazard what is going on here, I would think that maybe their power curve is not correct for the highest setting of my trainer. I like the idea of trying out a fluid based trainer and seeing if I get a similar result. I will try to borrow one and get back with some results.
02-16-15, 11:31 AM
#35
Senior Member
We're just going to have to accept that you're a powerful machine! Keep on rocking it. 
02-16-15, 03:55 PM
#36
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Well the root of the problem is obvious. Those are Canadian watts you are measuring. When you do the conversion properly, 547 of them is probably closer to 150 for the rest of us...
02-16-15, 05:10 PM
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Does the wheel circumference of the wheel setting play a role in accurately displaying the correct power? Perhaps this setting is widely off. Try changing it drastically and see what happens.
02-17-15, 05:07 PM
#38
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Here is the info about the wheel setting in TR.
Wheel circumference is measured from the outside of the tire so that calculations using it will correlate to the actual distance that you would have traveled. If you were using the rim circumference this would cause your speed and distance to report less than they actually are and in some cases power to also read lower.
Wheel circumference is measured from the outside of the tire so that calculations using it will correlate to the actual distance that you would have traveled. If you were using the rim circumference this would cause your speed and distance to report less than they actually are and in some cases power to also read lower.
02-19-15, 05:29 PM
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I've been using TR, virtual power(VP), and Sufferfest Vids regularly since November. I'm about 210 down from nearly 250 last March.
My experience with VP is that it runs alot higher than actual. Not to the extent yours is though. I've got an FTP of about 240 on TR using VP. My buddy, who uses a powertap and regularly smokes me on rides, hooked his bike up to TR, and using the powertap, was working really hard to do the workouts I was "doing". Strava estimates my nominal power wattage on regular outside rides at about 177. This is probably more in line with reality.
I have the Kurt Kinetic 2.0 fluid trainer. I'm very detailed about pumping up the tires to same pressure, and in number of turns to engage etc. Even so about a couple of months ago on a single workout I had some "personal bests" on intervals that I've not come close to breaking since, even though I know I'm in better shape.
It's become a sort of joke with my riding buddy. I refer to TR/VP watts as "watt like units"(WLU's). TR was a great gateway drug into power though, and I just got a powertap G3 I'm having laced into my rear wheel. I'm looking forward, kinda, to doing an FTP test when I get the wheel back just to see how bad I really am.
In any event, I really enjoy(?) TR combined with Sufferfest. The VP is useful for training and showing indications of progress. Just don't read too much into the numbers, as in at least my case, a racing career is not so imminent...
Out of curiosity, what test protocol did you use to determine your FTP?
My experience with VP is that it runs alot higher than actual. Not to the extent yours is though. I've got an FTP of about 240 on TR using VP. My buddy, who uses a powertap and regularly smokes me on rides, hooked his bike up to TR, and using the powertap, was working really hard to do the workouts I was "doing". Strava estimates my nominal power wattage on regular outside rides at about 177. This is probably more in line with reality.
I have the Kurt Kinetic 2.0 fluid trainer. I'm very detailed about pumping up the tires to same pressure, and in number of turns to engage etc. Even so about a couple of months ago on a single workout I had some "personal bests" on intervals that I've not come close to breaking since, even though I know I'm in better shape.
It's become a sort of joke with my riding buddy. I refer to TR/VP watts as "watt like units"(WLU's). TR was a great gateway drug into power though, and I just got a powertap G3 I'm having laced into my rear wheel. I'm looking forward, kinda, to doing an FTP test when I get the wheel back just to see how bad I really am.
In any event, I really enjoy(?) TR combined with Sufferfest. The VP is useful for training and showing indications of progress. Just don't read too much into the numbers, as in at least my case, a racing career is not so imminent...
Out of curiosity, what test protocol did you use to determine your FTP?
Wouldn't explain your Hercuclean numbers, but hooked to an actual power meter you might see a drop.
02-20-15, 01:53 PM
#40
Senior Member
Just as a follow up to myself... Today I did the Rubber Glove FTP test combined with Trainer Road, using my new Powertap G3. This was my first ride on an actual power meter. FTP using this protocol was 207, down from a virtual power FTP of 240.
Wouldn't explain your Hercuclean numbers, but hooked to an actual power meter you might see a drop.
Wouldn't explain your Hercuclean numbers, but hooked to an actual power meter you might see a drop.
03-01-15, 09:36 PM
#41
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Sorry for the time taken to respond, I've been tied up in a few things, one of which is my correspondence with Trainer Road.
dr_lha: Thanks! I will keep plugging along
salreus: Wheel circumference definitely has a role to play. I double checked my wheel circumference and found it was set wrong. But it isn't the solution. It was actually set too small, so my power numbers are under-represented, not over-represented. But not by a lot (my real wheel circumference is 2105, TR was set to 2096).
txags92: Not only the most plausible answer so far, the funniest!
technobuyer: I'm expecting a drop too. It would be great to know by how much.
Since the last time I've posted, I've gone through more tests with Trainer Road's support staff:
- Made absolutely sure my wheel isn't slipping by grabbing the flywheel on my trainer and trying to move my wheel with my hand.
- Gone over my resistance setting in detail. At first they were curious as to why I had the resistance set to the highest setting; but they later confirmed that most people with my trainer have it set to level 5.
- Confirmed the resistance of my trainer. I confirmed that my trainer is brand new and unlikely to be worn out. I bought my wife the exact same trainer at the same time and i get the same resitance when I try her trainer out; so the resistance is likely quite fine.
- Confirm that my speed sensor is fine. I was able to switch my sensor with my wife's speed sensor. Readings are the same.
- One concern was that the flexing of the bicycle was causing the magnet on my spokes to hit my speed sensor. At Trainer Road's suggestion, I pointed an action camera directly at my speed sensor. Based on the recording I produced, I was able to confirm that the magnet was not hitting the speed sensor at all.
- My bike mechanic also pointed out if my bike frame was flexing that much, my rim would be rubbing on my brake pad. There was no unusual wear in the tire or the rim.
I would like to point out that I offered the Trainer Road support people the opportunity to give up prior to this; they insisted to continue on if I was willing to.
At this point I think we've run out of tests we can do. The only way to know for sure is to get independently tested. Going to try the cheaper route first (spin class bike with power output) before I pay to be professionally tested.
Or, barring that, just see what my performance is like in about 30 days when all the snow is gone.
dr_lha: Thanks! I will keep plugging along
salreus: Wheel circumference definitely has a role to play. I double checked my wheel circumference and found it was set wrong. But it isn't the solution. It was actually set too small, so my power numbers are under-represented, not over-represented. But not by a lot (my real wheel circumference is 2105, TR was set to 2096).
txags92: Not only the most plausible answer so far, the funniest!
technobuyer: I'm expecting a drop too. It would be great to know by how much.
Since the last time I've posted, I've gone through more tests with Trainer Road's support staff:
- Made absolutely sure my wheel isn't slipping by grabbing the flywheel on my trainer and trying to move my wheel with my hand.
- Gone over my resistance setting in detail. At first they were curious as to why I had the resistance set to the highest setting; but they later confirmed that most people with my trainer have it set to level 5.
- Confirmed the resistance of my trainer. I confirmed that my trainer is brand new and unlikely to be worn out. I bought my wife the exact same trainer at the same time and i get the same resitance when I try her trainer out; so the resistance is likely quite fine.
- Confirm that my speed sensor is fine. I was able to switch my sensor with my wife's speed sensor. Readings are the same.
- One concern was that the flexing of the bicycle was causing the magnet on my spokes to hit my speed sensor. At Trainer Road's suggestion, I pointed an action camera directly at my speed sensor. Based on the recording I produced, I was able to confirm that the magnet was not hitting the speed sensor at all.
- My bike mechanic also pointed out if my bike frame was flexing that much, my rim would be rubbing on my brake pad. There was no unusual wear in the tire or the rim.
I would like to point out that I offered the Trainer Road support people the opportunity to give up prior to this; they insisted to continue on if I was willing to.
At this point I think we've run out of tests we can do. The only way to know for sure is to get independently tested. Going to try the cheaper route first (spin class bike with power output) before I pay to be professionally tested.
Or, barring that, just see what my performance is like in about 30 days when all the snow is gone.
03-02-15, 06:20 AM
#42
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Hopefully you can hit Toguri or PowerWatts for a 20min TT and let us know how it goes. If it's anywhere near a 547w FTP I'm decamping for Ontario to get on that maple syrup and poutine diet, or whatever it is you're living on up there! 
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