Why are bike shops so worthless?
02-16-15, 05:46 PM
#76
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Did the OP say that he also provided the spokes?
It is quite possible that a PowerTap would require an odd size of spoke that the shop wouldn't normally stock.
I agree that good customer service brings customer loyalty. Bad customer service doesn't.
A phone call with an honest explanation of the delay might help, and if it is due to parts availability, perhaps suggest alternatives.
It is quite possible that a PowerTap would require an odd size of spoke that the shop wouldn't normally stock.
I agree that good customer service brings customer loyalty. Bad customer service doesn't.
A phone call with an honest explanation of the delay might help, and if it is due to parts availability, perhaps suggest alternatives.
02-16-15, 05:47 PM
#77
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What the OP has or hasn't done in the past is of no Importance. If the receipt said friday he has every right to expect it by friday. The LBS should view this as an opportunity to gain a new customer. Of course, with his income he should shop at Walmart, not be buying high end bikes. Instead save his money, work hard and as his income goes up then look into a better bike. Just my opinion.
02-16-15, 05:49 PM
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This. Usually I won't even care if there's a delay if they at least acknowledge it with a legitimate reason. Even "we got busier than anticipated" is fine for 1-2 days delay. But just ignoring me beyond a promised completion date by 3+ days is a surefire way to get me to never come back.
02-16-15, 06:05 PM
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02-16-15, 06:19 PM
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I don't necessarily get the 'SUPPORT YOUR LBS AT ALL COSTS' mentality. Look, if I'm going to be paying more than online, there needs to be value added.
02-16-15, 06:29 PM
#82
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With the low end buying $25 QBP wheels and high end ready-built boutique LBS mechanics usually don't have enough experience to build decent wheels fast enough to produce profits in-line with their normal margins.
Your LBS is much better off with their mechanics spending the bulk of their time on walk-ins with $10 flat repairs and $20 cable replacements, only dealing with your wheel when they have nothing better to do.
This shop was my second choice for a wheel build after my old hub cracked, when the shop I normally go to told me I should get an SRM so that they can build me a new set of wheels with Dura Ace hubs or whatever. Yeah pal, thanks. I make $11.66 an hour and you want me to drop $2800 on a power meter and $1500 on new wheels.
Building wheels is no more difficult than adjusting front derailleurs, although with 16-36 spokes to adjust it takes longer.
Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 02-16-15 at 06:39 PM.
02-16-15, 06:35 PM
#83
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I've just completed the cutting of my carbon steerer tube on my new build Lynskey. I had to cut it twice (measure once, cut twice?) because I didn't include space for the expander insert that came with the fork (nor did the instruction sheet mention that fact). Once that was done (both times in fact), I hit the cut area with some fine sandpaper very lightly just to smooth out the edges. I also added a bead of superglue on the cut surface to keep all the fibers together and prevent fraying. A new fine tooth hacksaw blade makes short work of a carbon tube. My local shop actually has a high quality mechanic that can do this work, but following Rule 58, I prefer to do all my own work. I buy tubes, bar tape, gel packs and such from those guys.
02-16-15, 06:43 PM
#84
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I'm sure there are niches open for many bike shops.
Some located in non-populous areas along the Katy trail specialize in supplying rentals and emergency supplies/repairs for bikers with on the trail failures (or perhaps find the bike ride + shop visit is nice).
Some cater to high-end clients who can't bother with repairs.
Others cater to low-end consumers that just don't want to bother with fixing their bikes.
One of the things that the internet can't do is on-the-spot repairs (other than training consumers). And, the buy-from-China often has unacceptable delays.
One of the issues for a good shop is that there is a fine line between having too little and too much inventory. And, of course, prices. Some of the shop mark-ups are pretty extraordinary which is fine, but it turns off customers that are "in the know". They can't carry everything, but they should at least sell parts for all bikes they carry, or have recently sold, as well as a scattering of general consumables.
Last year I was "restoring" a bike to give to my cousin. I needed brake shoes/pads for cantilever (or linear pull) brakes. Apparently the mounts were a bit odd requiring longitudinal grooves in the mounting studs. The LBS I tried had the wrong pads for an outrageous price, and said they didn't stock and couldn't get the right pads. Needless to say, I found them on the internet, and bought 2 full sets (8 pads) + shipping for less than the LBS wanted to sell the wrong pads to me (I don't remember if I had asked for 1 or 2 pairs).
Some located in non-populous areas along the Katy trail specialize in supplying rentals and emergency supplies/repairs for bikers with on the trail failures (or perhaps find the bike ride + shop visit is nice).
Some cater to high-end clients who can't bother with repairs.
Others cater to low-end consumers that just don't want to bother with fixing their bikes.
One of the things that the internet can't do is on-the-spot repairs (other than training consumers). And, the buy-from-China often has unacceptable delays.
One of the issues for a good shop is that there is a fine line between having too little and too much inventory. And, of course, prices. Some of the shop mark-ups are pretty extraordinary which is fine, but it turns off customers that are "in the know". They can't carry everything, but they should at least sell parts for all bikes they carry, or have recently sold, as well as a scattering of general consumables.
Last year I was "restoring" a bike to give to my cousin. I needed brake shoes/pads for cantilever (or linear pull) brakes. Apparently the mounts were a bit odd requiring longitudinal grooves in the mounting studs. The LBS I tried had the wrong pads for an outrageous price, and said they didn't stock and couldn't get the right pads. Needless to say, I found them on the internet, and bought 2 full sets (8 pads) + shipping for less than the LBS wanted to sell the wrong pads to me (I don't remember if I had asked for 1 or 2 pairs).
02-16-15, 06:54 PM
#85
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With the low end buying $25 QBP wheels and high end ready-built boutique LBS mechanics usually don't have enough experience to build decent wheels fast enough to produce profits in-line with their normal margins.
Your LBS is much better off with their mechanics spending the bulk of their time on walk-ins with $10 flat repairs and $20 cable replacements, only dealing with your wheel when they have nothing better to do.
Your LBS is much better off with their mechanics spending the bulk of their time on walk-ins with $10 flat repairs and $20 cable replacements, only dealing with your wheel when they have nothing better to do.
Perhaps it is something that the shop should refer out, or perhaps collect the parts and drop off with a "specialist".
Perhaps it depends on the market. Some shops specialize in clientele who have $200+ hubs that need to get built into a wheel rather than buying new wheels with disposable hubs.
When shopping at a bike shop in St. Louis, someone brought in a set of MTB wheels with rusted out spokes. If it was me, I would have rebuilt the wheels in a heartbeat, but the bike shop wouldn't even touch them, all they wanted to do was sell a new set of wheels.
I suppose then one might ask what one needs a bike shop for.
If they just resell parts that one can buy on the internet... they'll die off.
If they have the tools, parts, equipment, and specialization to actually do repairs... Valued-Added... they'll keep a niche.
02-16-15, 07:36 PM
#86
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OP,
How much did the shop quote for this build?
How much did the shop quote for this build?
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02-16-15, 07:41 PM
#87
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Did you hand them a new G3? I believe the G3 has a significantly smaller flange diameter than the old SLs with the carbon windows.
Or, did you source an old, used, SL to replace the one that cracked?
Did they provide a reason why they hadn't completed the wheel?
Or, did you source an old, used, SL to replace the one that cracked?
Did they provide a reason why they hadn't completed the wheel?
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Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.
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02-16-15, 08:51 PM
#88
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Yeah, riding bikes is FUN.
Running a small retail business? Usually not so fun. Just because it sells bikes, doesn't make it any "funner"
02-16-15, 09:45 PM
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I would generally agree with you, but you can be fooled if you don't know the whole story. Sometimes it's not about how much you earn, but what you do with it. Just saying...
Yes....wealth is certainly not about how much one makes.
Yes....wealth is certainly not about how much one makes.
02-16-15, 09:58 PM
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The shop that I do my business at has been great to me. I bring squeaks and noises to them all the time. I had my fit done there and the BG Master Fitter is always helping me tweak it. I tried to buy an hour of fit time to make up for it and they wouldn't let me. Yes, I spend a lot of my money there, but they've never made a fat guy like me feel like I shouldn't have the toys I wanted because I wasn't fast enough. I can't say that for other shops. Sure, they give me grief about my gear fetish, but they only do that to the people they like....
02-16-15, 10:12 PM
#91
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I reached out to the OP last night via PM (no response yet) as I had a competent wheel builder at the shop I work at (Folsom Bike) lined up to do a power build today on his lunch for a 6-pack I bought him. Oh well...
02-16-15, 10:20 PM
#92
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"Criss-Cross" Cables
As described by Sheldon:
"Criss-Cross" Cables
Most bicycles with handlebar-mounted shifters run the rear cable on the right, the front on the left. This causes some awkwardness in routing the length of housing from the shift lever to the frame stops. Due to the need to allow these housings to be long enough to permit the bars to be turned all the way back and forth, the housings often wind up making a reverse bend--for instance, the rear will go from the shifter, which is on the right, swing forward and cross over past the centerline of the bicycle, then back over to the right side of the top tube, before heading down the down tube. These extra bends increase friction, and the fairly forcible contact between the housing and the side of the top tube can damage the finish.
A neat solution to this is to run the cables "criss-cross" style: The rear runs from the lever, (on the right) around the top tube, and to the cable stop on the left side of the downtube! The front cable crosses over similarly from the left side of the handlebar to the right side of the down tube.
The bare cables then cross one another under the middle of the downtube, making an "X". The cables may touch where they cross, but they will do so very lightly, since they are both straight...the tiny bit of friction at this crossing is more than offset by the reduction in friction in the smoother-flowing cable housings.
This technique does not work with over-the-bottom-bracket cable routing, but is doable with most newer bikes that have under-the-bottom-bracket cable routing and cable stops mounted toward the bottom side of the down tube.
Most bicycles with handlebar-mounted shifters run the rear cable on the right, the front on the left. This causes some awkwardness in routing the length of housing from the shift lever to the frame stops. Due to the need to allow these housings to be long enough to permit the bars to be turned all the way back and forth, the housings often wind up making a reverse bend--for instance, the rear will go from the shifter, which is on the right, swing forward and cross over past the centerline of the bicycle, then back over to the right side of the top tube, before heading down the down tube. These extra bends increase friction, and the fairly forcible contact between the housing and the side of the top tube can damage the finish.
A neat solution to this is to run the cables "criss-cross" style: The rear runs from the lever, (on the right) around the top tube, and to the cable stop on the left side of the downtube! The front cable crosses over similarly from the left side of the handlebar to the right side of the down tube.
The bare cables then cross one another under the middle of the downtube, making an "X". The cables may touch where they cross, but they will do so very lightly, since they are both straight...the tiny bit of friction at this crossing is more than offset by the reduction in friction in the smoother-flowing cable housings.
This technique does not work with over-the-bottom-bracket cable routing, but is doable with most newer bikes that have under-the-bottom-bracket cable routing and cable stops mounted toward the bottom side of the down tube.
02-16-15, 10:34 PM
#93
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Uh....it depends on a lot of factors. Some people who make a lot are heavily in debt and/or live extravagantly. Some people who do not have a high income, but who are debt-free and live modestly, can actually save more/have a higher disposable income.
I technically make $50 an hour. That sounds pretty good. I left out the part about that I only work a few hours a week, so that in reality, my yearly income would be a little lower than the OP's (assuming he works 40 hours a week).
When I do that, they make me leave 
I technically make $50 an hour. That sounds pretty good. I left out the part about that I only work a few hours a week, so that in reality, my yearly income would be a little lower than the OP's (assuming he works 40 hours a week).
02-16-15, 11:56 PM
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Now, if the person actually enjoys owning the shop, that's a different story. But I tend to agree that it sounds like a terrible job.
02-17-15, 12:02 AM
#95
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That's called the 'California Cross' and it's pretty much the standard way to set up the cables. It's pretty ridiculous that they would attribute any shifting problems to that, necessitating the replacement of cables. WTH?
From your description of the problem, "...not shift into the largest or smallest gear", I would say that was likely a problem with the high/low limits not being set correctly on your derailleur - which takes like 90 seconds to solve if you're slow.
From your description of the problem, "...not shift into the largest or smallest gear", I would say that was likely a problem with the high/low limits not being set correctly on your derailleur - which takes like 90 seconds to solve if you're slow.
02-17-15, 05:36 AM
#97
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Now if there was contact, shouldn't the factory catch this? OK, it got by them. Now, when the LBS was assembling the bike, shouldn't they be questioning the crisscross? OK, didn't at the time of assembly but they changed it as an answer to a problem so was it wrong in the first place or they are not that smart to begin with?
To me, it only adds to the list of questions.
To me, it only adds to the list of questions.
Sure...at a top notch shop (example is we disassemble and reassemble BB330 bottom brackets on new bikes) they should check the factory build. But understand that when there are 10 *****ing customers out there that want service, and it could be a smaller shop, stuff gets missed when you get busy.
I'd be that you make mistakes on your job too.
The best part about retail is watching people hold others to standards they don't always hold themselves to.
02-17-15, 05:42 AM
#98
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You know the old saying..."This would be a great place to work if it were not for the customers."
The problem with the bike business is that, I'd guess less than 15% of the owners really know how to run a business. These are shops that have multiple locations, and are doing $10+ million in sales. They have parts, probably 10 repair stands all with mechanics working on bikes, multiple sales people on the floor, bikes in stock so that the customer can buy the bike and go home with it that day. And you have got to know how to manage credit and cash flow. If you have that you will attract good employees and fully trained mechanics.
The problem with the bike business is that, I'd guess less than 15% of the owners really know how to run a business. These are shops that have multiple locations, and are doing $10+ million in sales. They have parts, probably 10 repair stands all with mechanics working on bikes, multiple sales people on the floor, bikes in stock so that the customer can buy the bike and go home with it that day. And you have got to know how to manage credit and cash flow. If you have that you will attract good employees and fully trained mechanics.
02-17-15, 06:00 AM
#99
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Not just retail, but every aspect of modern life. What about politics and government?
02-17-15, 06:51 AM
#100
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In fairness to the shop mechanic they may mean the cables weren't just crossed but twisted around each other. That way the cables would go to their proper sides for a standard setup but not work worth a damn.