Bah Humbug

The PTSD is real - I had a bad crash a while ago with a very minor concussion and it took me years to get comfortable on the bike again. Make sure to be ready for it.

chaadster

I’m not an expert online bicycle crash investigator, so unlike many here, I cannot speak with such certainty or conviction about what did or did not happen, but looking at what we know, specifically that the bars were rotated down, we know they were insufficiently tightened and so it seems plausible that they may have slipped while she was riding, causing, if she had a handhold on the hoods, a forward and down movement of the bars which could have precipitated her fall forward.

I don’t know what the current thinking is on the claim she was a very experienced cyclist given she’d hardly ever ridden over a crack in the road, but it seems to me that most experienced cyclists know very quickly when things go south and they’re in trouble, and will cry out in surprise and fear. It must be considered that it happened so fast she had not time to cry out, but even at high speeds, crashing is not instantaneous, precluding awareness. That she did not cry out may be a hint that she did not have awareness.

Is it more likely that she mishandled the bike navigating a crack, fell when on the hoods and she stood to adjust her saddle position and the bar rotated, silently hit an animal, or fainted and collapsed? I have no idea, but they all seem plausible, and it could even have been a combination of events. And for extra credit: do you know the word “manual”? Is it plausible she was riding a “mannie” down the hill, got out of sorts, went sideways and got launched headlong off the bike?

Even at 31mph, this guy understood what was about to happen and cried out:

Iride01 

If there isn't any tire or rim damage evident, then I'd not put too much into the idea that a crack caused the crash.

But to explore the handlebars further.... were they recently adjusted or changed in anyway? I put new bars on my bike and simply forgot that I didn't do a final tightening on the bolts holding it to the stem. Three miles into my ride I hit a bump and they suddenly slipped and rotated down like those bars are now. Thankfully I was slowing to a stop already and it was no consequence. At 20 plus MPH, who knows what would have happened.

Physical things with health the doctors will be likely to check for. Does she wear a HR monitor and you can look at her HR when the crash happened? If it's unusually low I might ask the doc's if that might indicate syncope. Strokes, AFAIK, leave evidence to be found on a scan.

Ever since my crash, I've been trying to find out if any mistake I made caused it. Was I riding no handed? Drinking from my bottle? Simply not noticing the big bump in that area I cross every time I do that ride? And every time I try to cause a problem, the bike at the 20 plus I was going handles that bump without my intervention and would have to be forced by me to become unstable.

endgrainguy

Correct, front wheel shows no problem from crash.

The bars were tight. I couldn't straighten them without loosening the clamp screws. The impact on the hoods caused the bars to move. So no, no touching of the bar adjustment for as long as I can remember.

I think panic braking in response to.... something... (that something likely related to the crack,) caused the endo. A little further evidence: rear brake QR was down, so rear brake response would be extra slow. And front wheel has had a rim issue that causes a bit of a grab-release pulse in front braking. But she's a confident, fast descender, comfortable at 40 MPH. And here it was casual 20 MPH. We'd actually gotten back on the bikes after a 15 minute break, --short hike to a waterfall, wild mushroom picking-- only 1/4 mile before the fall.

That video sure is a shocker. But road debris can pretty much be ruled out here, since I had just covered the same stretch of road, and looked back at it carefully afterwards.

MidTNBrad

2 years ago, at age 48, I had a seizure and was subsequently diagnosed with epilepsy. My neurologist said that I was by-far the oldest patient she's had to have a first seizure at my age. Had I been on a bike I would have obviously gone down hard. I don't know if she's had a test for that but it might be something worth looking into.

The last thing I remember I was walking out of Target with my kids, the next memory I have is me at my parent's house being strapped to a gurney by the EMTs and being rushed off to the ED. 15 minutes earlier I was driving with both of my kids on a highway. Scary as hell. I figure there's about a 45 minute window that I have no recollection. After the diagnosis I couldn't drive or ride a bike for 6 months. Staying off the bike was frustrating but it was easier than not being able to drive. My neighbors, friends, family, came through to get me around to work (pre COVID work-from-home policies). Luckily today's medications are really good and I haven't had any issues since.

I guess my point is that several suggestions above are to check into heart related issues but a full Neuro check might find something out too. Good luck!

Razorrock

I rode over a discarded political yard sign several years ago. It was laying flat on the ground and didn't think anything about it. Luckily the front wheel rolled over fine but i must have been applying the rear brake slightly and when the rear wheel crossed it, it instantly stopped and started skidding the sign. Suddenly my whole bike and me are falling sideways as if cornering and hitting loose sand in the road. I like to think i reacted properly but it was more dumb luck, i let off the brake and the rear tire rolled off the skidding sign and popped right back up.

At the time it happened so quick i really was in WTF mode. After i rode off i had time in my head to reconstruct what caused it (rear brake) and what resolved it. Sometimes things go wrong and instincts kick in before you really have time to think your way out of the problem.

I know this has nothing to do with your wife, I'm just glad she is OK. I ride alone mostly and biggest fear is crashing and not remembering how i got there.

SoSmellyAir

I also mostly ride by myself so I wear an Apple Watch with fall detection enabled. This feature has saved a few cyclists.

I am glad that the OP's wife is alright.

CliffordK

Hitting something like a dog may leave little evidence, and the animal might be long gone.

Braking for any reason would also be possible.

One thing I did a couple of years ago. I have several bikes and accidentally wired the brakes backwards on one bike. Hard stop, and I ended up grabbing too much front brake.

A grabby/pulsing bake likely will just be annoying, but at this point, you might be better of tying to fix everything.



Can you be sure the brake was pulsing before the accident?

Fix the rear brake.

Broctoon

You've put forth an interesting theory, but I don't think this assumption is reasonable.

Pro racers tighten (or have their mechanics tighten) their bars, stems, and levers just enough to hold on through the smooth, moderate forces imposed by riding, but loose enough that in a crash they will slip in their clamps rather than breaking. There could be tremendous, sudden force from impact with the ground that's enough to twist the bar down as happened here, even if the clamp was tightened to never slip in normal use.

It's like an NTSB investigator looking at a plane wreckage, finding dirt inside the altimeter, and concluding that the crash was caused by foreign debris contamination of the pitot/static air system, leading to an instrument malfunction.

Koyote

Correct. The torque spec is to hold the bar in place while riding, not while crashing.

Carbonfiberboy 

I'm with the animal theory, an animal which was moving very fast and caused her to panic brake and endo. So she puts full force on the brake levers. Question is, on the hoods or in the drops? If she's on the hoods, she's higher up and maybe puts enough force on the levers to twist the bars down some and she goes over the top. Her posture doesn't change that much as she goes over the bars, the bike now approaching vertical. She tries to bring her arms forward to catch herself, but can't possibly be quick enough, so she lands on her face, then forearms, then chest. She falls straight forward, not to either side. Falls involving cracks which I know of have always been to the side, from losing balance. This was an endo. I don't know of a crack fall which grabbed the front tire so as to prevent it from turning. Plus you'd see that on the tire sidewalls.

She lands in front of the bike. Her cleats pull the bike forward after her, which drives the hood tops into the pavement and moves the bars even more. When the hoods hit the pavement, she unclips, ripped out of the pedals.

I've watched my wife get run over by the duals on a 1-ton flatbed. She survived and still rides but now only stokes. This is tough on both of you, but this too will pass. Helmets are wonderful.

chaadster

OMG, what?!? That must have been the most horrifying moment…

Carbonfiberboy 

May no one else every have to experience anything like this. The truck tires went diagonally across her back, When they got to her head, they hit her slick helmet at an angle and the helmet popped her head out from under the tire like a watermelon seed. The ambulance took her away and I was left to walk our bikes the few block back home. At the hospital, she had no memory of the accident. The ER doc missed the tire tracks on her back, the 6 broken ribs and the pneumothorax. He ordered an X-ray of her arm, which was fine, and sent her home with some painkillers. A couple day later, another doctor ordered the chest X-ray. At the hospital, the thoracic surgeon inserted the chest tube between her ribs without benefit of anesthetic, the nurse and I holding her down while she screamed. He said his time was too valuable to wait for the anesthetic to come up from the pharmacy downstairs. She recovered well, though it took a few weeks.
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chaadster

Oh my god…horrific.

RiceAWay

If those pictures were of the bike AND if either the stem or the bars are carbon fiber I would suggest that what happened is that the bars rotated forward and she had too much weight on the bars and was thrown right over. With the bars rotating she might have grabbed the brakes with all of her weight now on the front wheel. That almost occurred to me but I caught myself at the last moment and only ran off the road. But I made no attempt to brake until after I had control. I was in a place that allowed that which was probably sheer luck.

I would think that aluminum bars and stem insufficiently tightened would do the same thing. But since I see it is a Felt carbon bike I would think that it was carbon bars as well. I ALWAYS use integrated bars and stem (they are all made in China but if people like Look order them they quintuple the price. Toseek is reliable and cheap.

RiceAWay

Long ago in a galaxy far, far away I wrote a paper concerning the helmet standard and its effect on rates of fatalities. https://www.vehicularcyclist.com/kunich.html This showed no advantage to wearing a foam helmet. Bontrager Q-cell is at least DESIGNED to get around the weaknesses of foam padded helmets. It is still too early to tell if they are an improvement, But I have observed and been a victim of head strike crashes wearing these helmets and they definitely had far less impact stress. I would personally recommend them even if they aren't nearly as stylish as other helmets. The one I observed was an 87 year old man whose only confusion was what the hell caused him to crash. It was a small round stone that he hit exactly wrong.

A couple of years ago some jerk gave me another "My helmet saved my life" story so I checked national traffic safety statistics and discovered that there was no change in the ratios now that helmet use is nearly universal. The ONLY good a foam helmet can do is save you from getting bumps and scratches on your head in the most common fall down accidents. If you are hit by a car going 15 mph or faster you're as good as dead.

As for me, I use the Trek Q-Cell because at least they took the time to analyze the problem and TRY to make an improvement

Carbonfiberboy 

I don't think you are entirely correct. One piece of evidence is that when I was 18 and helmetless, I went headfirst into a wood telephone pole, bike still attached by my toe clips and straps. I was going at least 15 mph trying to keep up with city commuter traffic. I was not a slow rider. I was slightly stunned, but got up immediately. Not even any blood. No concussion.

I also don't think the helmet liner material makes a heckuva lot of difference. The deceleration is going to take place in about 1/2" or even less. Obviously some foams will be slightly better than others, but not enough to prevent death in a high-speed head-on. The biggest difference a helmet makes is as a skid pan. There, the helmet fit and strap tightness is the most important factor. My guess is that 99% of possible head injuries are prevented or at least lessened by wearing a helmet. Head-on crashes into a stationary object or one moving toward one are very uncommon. In my 25 years of group riding, I never heard of one happening to a group member. Mostly riders are killed by being hit from behind, though there was a local fixed gear rider who locked up and went under a cement truck.

Some helmets have some sort of rotational protection like MIPS. Seems to me that's way oversold. I've never had a crash involving rotational energy. I doubt that Q-Cell foam or whatever it is (Q-Cell is a common resin additive/thickener) makes any difference at all.

I had a skull fracture hitting a tree while backcountry skiing, traveling at quite a slow pace. It was in the bony area round the ear, which is like foam, not solid bone like the top of one's head. Tore my ear almost off, lots of blood. Any sort of helmet would have prevented that fracture and I immediately went out an bought one. It is interesting that most BC skiers I've met who wear helmets have had head injuries before they bought one and none after. Lift skiers are a different animal.

chaadster

I don’t think we need an off-topic diversion here, but your comments seem so dangerously misguided that I can’t help but reply. It’s utterly preposterous to make the assertion that helmets are useless because there hasn’t been a drop in cyclist fatalities from car accidents. Besides there being many other types of accidents other than the bike/car collisions which you’ve not normalized the fatality rates for miles driven or miles ridden, there are also non-fatal brain injuries which you don’t account for at all either. What happens when a cyclist gets hit by car traveling 15mph or more is neither a standard for helmet performance nor a sensible excuse for impugning the safety benefits of a helmet. Helmets are supposed to reduce incidence of traumatic brain injury, not save someone when they’re plowed into by a car.

I think it’s a real shame you go around the internet seeding such foolishness in people’s minds.

njkayaker

Because the only imaginable benefit of helmets is preventing fatalities.

This is ridiculous.

I personally know a fair number of people who are still quite alive after higher-speed collisions.

RiceAWay

Look, I couldn't care less about specific cases, especially by people who were in these accidents and despite their claims don't have any real idea what happened. If you have a slow motion video you would plainly see that you didn't hit your head and that you didn't "jump right up".

RiceAWay

You "personally" know nothing of the sort. You know what stories you've been told. I was hit by a car doing 25 mph and survived. How? because I was hit at such an angle that it unclipped me and I rolled over the hood of the car and fell the couple of feet to the ground and broke my fall with my hands and arms. I don't go around foolishly saying that I survived a collision with a car at 25 mph. The helmet had absolutely nothing to do with that but luck of the circumstances. People IN CARS hitting another car at 25 mph even with air bags and seat belts die. Your pretend knowledge is nothing more than that and you're telling yourself you're safe because you're wearing a piece of foam plastic on your head.. Unfortunately, that gives you overconfidence and puts you more at risk than otherwise. I would just as soon you don't become another statistic. The ONE study that showed benefits from a DOT standard helmet used HARD SHELL HELMETS as worn by car and motorcycle racers. A hard shell spreads the area of impact over a much larger area and the foam then compresses a great deal less. Among my other activities I once raced amateur class supported by Kawasaki. And then became safety director for the American Federation of Motorcyclists.

Every time I show actual statistics someone chimes in that their lives were saved by a helmet when they were hit by a speeding train. As I said before - I checked modern statistics of bicycle and pedestrian fatalities with helmet use near 90% now and the ratio of deaths is almost exactly the same. Per hour of use, bicycles are the safest form of transport because they feel so exposed that they are generally safer riders than auto drivers or pedestrians.

njkayaker

Makes silly statement.

Immediately provides an example that disproves it.



Fatal crashes are fatal (you aren't saying anything: it's tautology). Not all people die IN CARS in 25mph collisions.

I'm saying no such thing. Don't attribute the nonsense in your head to other people.

chaadster

Take your lies and ******** back Parler, Fox, OANN, or wherever you prefer to get your Glenn Beck diarrhea.

“Compared to undocumented immigrants, U.S. citizens were twice as likely to be arrested for violent felonies in Texas from 2012 to 2018, two-and-a-half times more likely to be arrested for felony drug crimes, and over four times more likely to be arrested for felony property crimes, according to a study published by University of Wisconsin–Madison researchers today in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.”

https://news.wisc.edu/undocumented-i...than-citizens/

Carbonfiberboy 

Now you're just being silly. Credibility all gone, too bad.

How that went down is somewhat interesting. It was summer. I was commuting to work in work clothes, jeans and shirt, in the right lane of a 4 lane street. There was no shoulder, a sidewalk instead. I did this commute many times before and after the accident. This day, a car mirror just touched my left forearm, which steered me right into the curb and of course I fell and rather flew through the air into the post, no road rash, not clothing damage. The only fatal accident I've seen was when a druggie going the opposite direction steered across the centerline right into the center of our paceline, taking out a female rider. She basically asphyxiated, crushed beneath the car. We tried to lift it off her or move it, but we couldn't, or couldn't enough to matter. She was DOA at the hospital. The driver was not charged.

Bah Humbug

Please stop engaging with him. The OP had a real need and doesn't deserve this threadjacking.