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Classic era touring rear derailleur

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Classic era touring rear derailleur

Old 08-19-21, 10:09 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by gugie
Same experience. I broke one of those springs last year, but was able to carefully ride home about 10 miles after getting the chain in the big plate to take up as much slack as possible. @Andy_K had the same thing happen to one of those 3 pulley LePrees, which uses the same design I believe.
Based on my rememberance, I think the lifetime of the original Cyclone derailleurs is adequate, however unless you know it's got low mileage on one, I'd consider that there is some risk of this happening to you.
These derailleurs all have little use. I'll go look around for a spring. Thanks for the advice, Gugie! Always helpful.
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Old 08-19-21, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by gugie
Same experience. I broke one of those springs last year, but was able to carefully ride home about 10 miles after getting the chain in the big plate to take up as much slack as possible. @Andy_K had the same thing happen to one of those 3 pulley LePrees, which uses the same design I believe.
Based on my rememberance, I think the lifetime of the original Cyclone derailleurs is adequate, however unless you know it's got low mileage on one, I'd consider that there is some risk of this happening to you.
I've had two of these fail because of corrosion eating through the spring. They aren't sealed from moisture.
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Old 08-19-21, 11:25 AM
  #53  
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For touring, toughness would seem to be priority #1 if the distances are appreciable and/or the travels are to remote places.

I don't know of a tougher unit than a Shimano MTB derailer. These can be re-badged and even the mid-cage units like the one pictured below will handle a wide range of gearing.

For friction-shifting I prefer a faster action (greater actuation) so will route the cable to the wrong side of the anchor bolt. In conjunction with modern derailer cable housing this does give me the instant slap-shift action and with the lever not having to move through such a wild range of angle.

The best shifting I've yet experienced was a Duopar on my Trek 710. Symmetric shifters, an AT triple and a modest-sized 7s Uniglide freewheel somehow created the perfect storm of instant shifting all of the time.

I went with this setup on my 1967 Steyr-Sears Ten-Speed when the original Simplex derailer showed signs of excess wear, again with the cable routed for greater actuation:

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Old 08-19-21, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by dddd
For friction-shifting I prefer a faster action (greater actuation) so will route the cable to the wrong side of the anchor bolt. In conjunction with modern derailer cable housing this does give me the instant slap-shift action and with the lever not having to move through such a wild range of angle.
I would love to know more about this science. Please explain further if you'd like.
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Old 08-19-21, 12:05 PM
  #55  
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My Trek 710 came from them..I used to see someone up in the East Mountains that sold older parts but that was a few years back.
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Old 08-19-21, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by romperrr
I would love to know more about this science. Please explain further if you'd like.
Like I described, the cable is moved over to the opposite side of the pinch bolt, instead of following the cable-positioning groove in the arm.
This makes the arm effectively shorter from the cable to the pivot, so the linkage moves further in response to any given amount of cable travel.

I also like to use plain oil in/on the shift lever pivot and friction washers. This seems to give the fastest, crispest transition between the static (no motion) and dynamic (moving) state of the lever spool, again speeding up the discreet shifting event.

Combined with cables moving in lined, silicone-lubed derailer/shift housing (and cable guide!), and B-tension reduced to a minimum by whatever means possible, shifting feels better than any indexed shifter even under stressful conditions.
Of course many modern bikes also generally achieve all this when everything's working well, but there are definitely more things that can go wrong and some modern systems eat cables with regularity.

What I've noticed on some cheaper bikes (once the cables are running in a friction-free state and the lever pivots/washers are oiled up), that the plastic Simplex levers no longer exhibit even a hint of their inherent flexibility while shifting, unless perhaps the low-limit screw is set too tight.

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Old 08-19-21, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by gugie
Same experience. I broke one of those springs last year, but was able to carefully ride home about 10 miles after getting the chain in the big plate to take up as much slack as possible. @Andy_K had the same thing happen to one of those 3 pulley LePrees, which uses the same design I believe.
Based on my rememberance, I think the lifetime of the original Cyclone derailleurs is adequate, however unless you know it's got low mileage on one, I'd consider that there is some risk of this happening to you.
Actually, the spring that broke in the LePree was a clock spring.



I never even managed to figure out how to get this thing out, much less replace it.
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Old 08-19-21, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy_K
Actually, the spring that broke in the LePree was a clock spring.
I never even managed to figure out how to get this thing out, much less replace it.
Not difficult. Grip the inside of the spring with narrow needle-nose pliers and rotate counter clock until the pressure at the outer flange equalizes (for the lack of a better word) and pull out. Reverse going in.
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Old 08-19-21, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by clubman
Not difficult. Grip the inside of the spring with narrow needle-nose pliers and rotate counter clock until the pressure at the outer flange equalizes (for the lack of a better word) and pull out. Reverse going in.
That's what someone told me when I was trying to do this before. For some reason I couldn't make it happen then. The fact that the inside tab broke off made it harder to get good purchase on the spring. I just tried it again and it came out and flew across the garage.

Now I just need to find a replacement. Thanks!
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Old 08-19-21, 12:52 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by non-fixie
Maybe I missed it, but what bike are we talking about? For me, that would be a major factor, as all of these derailleurs shift well enough, as long as they are in good condition.

The SunTour GT's are beautiful derailleurs that shift really well, but even if period-correct, they would look sorely out of place on a French bike with MAFAC brakes, Philippe bars and an Idéale saddle. There, you want a Simplex or Huret derailleur.
Except that Motobecane broadly adopted SunTour in the 1970s.
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Old 08-19-21, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by clubman
I've had two of these fail because of corrosion eating through the spring. They aren't sealed from moisture.
Pack the cage pivot chamber with grease as a rust preventive.
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Old 08-19-21, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by John E
Except that Motobecane broadly adopted SunTour in the 1970s.
True enough but it was mostly later 70's and they usually went all in on the drivetrain, crank, derailleurs, shifters and FW from Japan.

And more on lower models.

Still no reason to dismiss out of hand or discount them as they came to be upgrades and worthy replacements across the board soon enough.
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Old 08-19-21, 01:45 PM
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Cyclones always highly recommended yet I also see problems. Suntour VX I seldom see problems. Light, reliable and beautiful and in 3 cage lengths. Keep it a secret though so I can buy them all.
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Old 08-19-21, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by John E
Except that Motobecane broadly adopted SunTour in the 1970s.
Broadly as in "all over the US", you mean? In Europe Huret was still king in the Motobecane catalogs in '79, with the Driver and the Challenger.
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Old 08-19-21, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy_K
That's what someone told me when I was trying to do this before. For some reason I couldn't make it happen then. The fact that the inside tab broke off made it harder to get good purchase on the spring. I just tried it again and it came out and flew across the garage.

Now I just need to find a replacement. Thanks!
That's often how those things go.

Working in dealerships where most of the techs are rock stars at any given time, it was fun to watch somebody unfamiliar with an operation, procedure, etc. that was going by the book and simply peeing in the wind only to have one of the stalwarts finally take pity on them, walk over with a hammer or something else and blast it apart or together with one fell swing then walk away leaving the lad standing there with his mouth hanging open after flailing away for a day, morning or longer.

You gotta hold your mouth just right, and be ready to duck when it lets go.
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Old 08-23-21, 12:04 PM
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IMHO the Shimano Crane GS (Crane was their equivalent to what later bacame the Dura Ace line) was the best touring derailleur of its era, by far. I had one on a German 70s 531 bike that I was still using for touring in the early 2000s.
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Old 08-23-21, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by non-fixie
The SunTour GT's are beautiful derailleurs that shift really well, but even if period-correct, they would look sorely out of place on a French bike with MAFAC brakes, Philippe bars and an Idéale saddle. There, you want a Simplex or Huret derailleur.
Maybe it would look out of place on a new bike, but it would look like most French bikes after the Simplex or Huret stopped working and the bike shop threw on a Suntour GT.
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Old 08-23-21, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by pfaustus
Maybe it would look out of place on a new bike, but it would look like most French bikes after the Simplex or Huret stopped working and the bike shop threw on a Suntour GT.
I'll admit I am looking at this from a European perspective, where SunTour was never as big as in the US. Raleigh and Gazelle, both owned by Tube Investments at the time, equipped their mid level bikes with SunTour, but that was about it. And for some reason most of the French bikes I have bought over the years still had their original Prestige or Eco derailleurs.
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Old 08-24-21, 12:22 PM
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Campy!

From reading through the prior responses, I seem to be odd man out here. I rode and raced in the late 50's and early 60's, and (back then, at least) Campagnolo was the Cadillac of derailleurs. Eddy Merckx won four Tours with a Campagnolo set. Reliable and bullet-proof. For consistent shifting, Campy!
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Old 08-24-21, 01:06 PM
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Agreed

Originally Posted by vanwormer
From reading through the prior responses, I seem to be odd man out here. I rode and raced in the late 50's and early 60's, and (back then, at least) Campagnolo was the Cadillac of derailleurs. Eddy Merckx won four Tours with a Campagnolo set. Reliable and bullet-proof. For consistent shifting, Campy!
I’m taking everyone’s advice. I’m spreading the rally, XT and cyclone GT between three bikes. I think I’m going to put a nuovo record with a long cage (modded) on the Cinelli. This project has sent me down the rabbit hole with wide range derailleurs.
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Old 08-24-21, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by gravelinmygears
I’m taking everyone’s advice. I’m spreading the rally, XT and cyclone GT between three bikes. I think I’m going to put a nuovo record with a long cage (modded) on the Cinelli. This project has sent me down the rabbit hole with wide range derailleurs.
Cool choice for that bike. Put some pics up when you get it squared away, please.

@non-fixie, that's an interesting perspective that I don't think most Americans consider.
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Old 08-24-21, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by BFisher
(...) @non-fixie, that's an interesting perspective that I don't think most Americans consider.
With English being the lingua franca on the internet, Americans and other native speakers are at an enormous advantage, and one could be forgiven for thinking that what goes for America, pretty much goes for the rest of the world.
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Old 08-25-21, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by vanwormer
From reading through the prior responses, I seem to be odd man out here. I rode and raced in the late 50's and early 60's, and (back then, at least) Campagnolo was the Cadillac of derailleurs. Eddy Merckx won four Tours with a Campagnolo set. Reliable and bullet-proof. For consistent shifting, Campy!
In the words of Frank Berto:

"the Campagnolo Nuovo Record rear derailleur shifted poorly, but was so well constructed that it would keep on shifting exactly as poorly - forever."
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Old 08-25-21, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by The Golden Boy
In the words of Frank Berto:

"the Campagnolo Nuovo Record rear derailleur shifted poorly, but was so well constructed that it would keep on shifting exactly as poorly - forever."
As suspected, it's not about the bike.

Or is it? That robust predictability allowed the best racer to win. Could Eddy have ever won races with an Allvit? Or Lark?

Off topic I suppose.

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Old 08-25-21, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by clubman
As suspected, it's not about the bike.

Or is it? That robust predictability allowed the best racer to win. Could Eddy have ever won races with an Allvit? Or Lark?

Off topic I suppose.
maybe off-topic, but it's an intriguing question.... what was the bike that Eddy rode when he won his first race, and what was the derailleur?? Probably not a Lark, but could have been an Allvit, I suppose. I'd like to imagine that it was a Campy Cambio Corsa or Vittoria Margherita or some other quirky design.

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