Universal 61 or Weinmann 999 center pulls, which do you prefer?
#1
Full Member
Thread Starter
Universal 61 or Weinmann 999 center pulls, which do you prefer?
In building up my latest iteration of my '75 Motobecane Grand Jubile I am in a quandary as which centerpull brakeset to use, Universal 61s or Weinmann 610/999s, which were found on tons of new bikes in the mid '70s. Which set would you use and why?
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 14,242
Mentioned: 415 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3802 Post(s)
Liked 3,324 Times
in
2,170 Posts
-----
one difference to be aware of is the alloy
the Universal is stiffer than the Weinmann but it is also more brittle
this comes in when an owner/mechanic is "toe-ing in" the brakes
Universal alloy is not very tolerant of bending
many an ower has learned of this through hands-on calamity
btw - the Motobecane Grand Record came with 61's for a year or two in the mid-70's
-----
one difference to be aware of is the alloy
the Universal is stiffer than the Weinmann but it is also more brittle
this comes in when an owner/mechanic is "toe-ing in" the brakes
Universal alloy is not very tolerant of bending
many an ower has learned of this through hands-on calamity
btw - the Motobecane Grand Record came with 61's for a year or two in the mid-70's
-----
#3
Disraeli Gears
I have no problems with either one -- I especially like the look of Universal CPs, but Weinmanns have always worked well for me. However, on a French bike, I'd prefer Mafacs, on both counts. Depending on the frame, you might need the longer reach version of Weinmann/Universal/Mafac for the rear -- a 610 has max reach of 61 mm, while the 750 goes to 75. We do have a '77 Grand Jubilé, though and reach required is less that 61 for both wheels. A '72 Le Champion though -- a bit more in the rear.
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada - burrrrr!
Posts: 11,674
Bikes: 1958 Rabeneick 120D, 1968 Legnano Gran Premio, 196? Torpado Professional, 2000 Marinoni Piuma
Mentioned: 210 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1372 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,747 Times
in
937 Posts
I prefer the Universal Model 61 to any of the Weinmann center pull stoppers that I have used. But both are very close in looks and performance, in my mind. The Weinmanns will cost less, probably. That said...
As one other forum member mentioned, Mafac brake calipers are a much better choice. They certainly look the vintage part. The offer a toe-in adjustment opportunity and they work as good or better than any other stoppers that I have tried from the 60s and 70s with only a couple of exceptions (Campy and Dura-Ace stoppers, from the early seventies were pretty good also.
Take the still alloy thing about the Universals seriously! They are brittle but, in all honestly, I have never busted one, attempting to adjust toe-in, nor has a busted Universal brake caliper ever come my way. And a lot of vintage road bicycles, thousands actually, have come my way over the years.
As one other forum member mentioned, Mafac brake calipers are a much better choice. They certainly look the vintage part. The offer a toe-in adjustment opportunity and they work as good or better than any other stoppers that I have tried from the 60s and 70s with only a couple of exceptions (Campy and Dura-Ace stoppers, from the early seventies were pretty good also.
Take the still alloy thing about the Universals seriously! They are brittle but, in all honestly, I have never busted one, attempting to adjust toe-in, nor has a busted Universal brake caliper ever come my way. And a lot of vintage road bicycles, thousands actually, have come my way over the years.
__________________
"98% of the bikes I buy are projects".
"98% of the bikes I buy are projects".
#6
"part timer"
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Tidewater VA
Posts: 622
Bikes: 1975 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1978 Bertin C35, 1982 Trek 614, 1983 Trek 620, 1984 Nishiki Seral, 1995 Mercian Ko’M, 1998 Fisher HKEK, 2000 Rivendell RS, 2001 Heron Touring, 2016 Nobilette Custom
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 114 Post(s)
Liked 160 Times
in
61 Posts
+1 on the MAFACs for a nice French bike. But if you need a longer reach brake in the rear, I’d definitely go with the Weinmanns. Occasionally you can find Weinmanns branded as Motobecane. There are a few on the auction site now. That’d be cool.
#7
Senior Member
I prefer Weinmanns for actual function. They are underrated brakes IMHO, presumably because they were on so many relatively inexpensive bike boom bikes.
While I've never personally broken a Universal brake, I know the older models had a reputation for being brittle and prone to snap. Not something I like in a brake. Universal brakes came in far cooler boxes though. Had a set of NOS Super 68s on a shelf for years -- just to look at the box.
AFA Mafac vs Weinmann, I go back and forth. Currently more on team Weinmann/Gran-Compe.
MAFAC = Ford
Weinmann = GM
or is it:
MAFAC = Stones
Weinmann = Beatles
While I've never personally broken a Universal brake, I know the older models had a reputation for being brittle and prone to snap. Not something I like in a brake. Universal brakes came in far cooler boxes though. Had a set of NOS Super 68s on a shelf for years -- just to look at the box.
AFA Mafac vs Weinmann, I go back and forth. Currently more on team Weinmann/Gran-Compe.
MAFAC = Ford
Weinmann = GM
or is it:
MAFAC = Stones
Weinmann = Beatles
Last edited by Salamandrine; 06-16-20 at 01:53 PM.
Likes For Salamandrine:
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 5,358
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2475 Post(s)
Liked 2,947 Times
in
1,673 Posts
Likes For steve sumner:
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fredericksburg, Va
Posts: 9,579
Bikes: '65 Frejus TDF, '73 Bottecchia Giro d'Italia, '83 Colnago Superissimo, '84 Trek 610, '84 Trek 760, '88 Pinarello Veneto, '88 De Rosa Pro, '89 Pinarello Montello, '94 Burley Duet, 97 Specialized RockHopper, 2010 Langster, Tern Link D8
Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1607 Post(s)
Liked 2,213 Times
in
1,103 Posts
Yeah Opps:
P1000591, on Flickr
At the time it broke, they were about $2/pair at the coop. They shine up really nice, wrong pads and all!
2008-06-01 08.43.29, on Flickr
P1000591, on Flickr
At the time it broke, they were about $2/pair at the coop. They shine up really nice, wrong pads and all!
2008-06-01 08.43.29, on Flickr
__________________
Bikes don't stand alone. They are two tired.
Bikes don't stand alone. They are two tired.
#12
Senior Member
Weinmann was OEM on your Moto, courtesy of importer Ben Lawee. In France it was Mafac. Lawee understood that “bicycle mechanic” in US meant a college kid, or maybe a high school kid. And being American those kids were going to do it their way, not the right way. Fifty years later the high school kid way has become the hallowed old school way. Weinmann brakes will withstand gorilla mechanics better than anything else. Mafac doesn’t work well at all unless you know what you are doing. And then it is best by far.
Do not bend aluminum brake arms. Just don’t. Every geezer on this forum, me included, has done it and done it often. Don’t be like us. Buy orbital adjustment pads. Make a shim. On Mafac file a groove into that fat washer next to the post.
Do not bend aluminum brake arms. Just don’t. Every geezer on this forum, me included, has done it and done it often. Don’t be like us. Buy orbital adjustment pads. Make a shim. On Mafac file a groove into that fat washer next to the post.
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 2,812
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1105 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,325 Times
in
782 Posts
Weinmann was OEM on your Moto, courtesy of importer Ben Lawee. In France it was Mafac. Lawee understood that “bicycle mechanic” in US meant a college kid, or maybe a high school kid. And being American those kids were going to do it their way, not the right way. Fifty years later the high school kid way has become the hallowed old school way. Weinmann brakes will withstand gorilla mechanics better than anything else. Mafac doesn’t work well at all unless you know what you are doing. And then it is best by far.
Do not bend aluminum brake arms. Just don’t. Every geezer on this forum, me included, has done it and done it often. Don’t be like us. Buy orbital adjustment pads. Make a shim. On Mafac file a groove into that fat washer next to the post.
Do not bend aluminum brake arms. Just don’t. Every geezer on this forum, me included, has done it and done it often. Don’t be like us. Buy orbital adjustment pads. Make a shim. On Mafac file a groove into that fat washer next to the post.
Toe-ing-in is unnecessary.
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,223
Mentioned: 654 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4722 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3,036 Times
in
1,874 Posts
The prime reason for the superior braking of MAFAC is the significantly larger contact area of the pads. Admittedly, the multiple adjustments allow you to fine tube their performance to a far greater extent but only in the hands of a knowledgeable mechanic. In the hands of an the hands of an uninformed mechanic, it is very easy to have a significant decrease in performance. Weinmann and Universal, on the other hand, are more foolproof.