Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Fifty Plus (50+)
Reload this Page >

50+ Thoughts on going tubeless.

Notices
Fifty Plus (50+) Share the victories, challenges, successes and special concerns of bicyclists 50 and older. Especially useful for those entering or reentering bicycling.

50+ Thoughts on going tubeless.

Old 06-16-21, 11:03 AM
  #151  
terrymorse 
climber has-been
 
terrymorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 4,834

Bikes: Scott Addict R1

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1407 Post(s)
Liked 1,275 Times in 677 Posts
Originally Posted by prj71 View Post

1.) Nobody said you would get fewer punctures. What has been said is that the majority of small punctures that we get (usually the pin hole type caused by sharp rock, glass or small nail) would be sealed by the sealant...Meaning you can keep on riding or at a minimum you will have to stop and add a little air. Thus saving the hassle of stopping, pulling the tire and changing or patching the tube. <<<---Way more hassle than going tubeless.
So this wonderful sealant material doesn't work inside a tube?
__________________
Ride, Rest, Repeat

terrymorse is offline  
Old 06-16-21, 11:04 AM
  #152  
prj71
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: North Central Wisconsin
Posts: 4,076
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2541 Post(s)
Liked 886 Times in 582 Posts
Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
Because automobiles are orders of magnitude heavier than bicycles?

I have yet to experience a moment on a bicycle when I thought "I need better braking". And I brake rather hard when descending.
The pros outweigh the cons...

https://www.realbuzz.com/articles-in...n-a-road-bike/
prj71 is offline  
Old 06-16-21, 11:06 AM
  #153  
prj71
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: North Central Wisconsin
Posts: 4,076
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2541 Post(s)
Liked 886 Times in 582 Posts
Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
So this wonderful sealant material doesn't work inside a tube?
Oh my...you clearly are obtuse.

prj71 is offline  
Old 06-16-21, 11:11 AM
  #154  
terrymorse 
climber has-been
 
terrymorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 4,834

Bikes: Scott Addict R1

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1407 Post(s)
Liked 1,275 Times in 677 Posts
Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
So this wonderful sealant material doesn't work inside a tube?
Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
Oh my...you clearly are obtuse.

Alas, I may never "get it".

One of the downsides of relying on data to make decisions.
__________________
Ride, Rest, Repeat

terrymorse is offline  
Old 06-16-21, 11:29 AM
  #155  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 3,840
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1813 Post(s)
Liked 1,996 Times in 1,271 Posts
Originally Posted by VicBC_Biker View Post
If the tubeless bike tire 'movement' is exactly the same as the electric car hype, that's the best argument against tubeless that I've read.
The ultimate fall-back argument used by folks with bad ideas is always "You are afraid of change".
How do you know they are bad ideas? Despite working in F1 motorsport engineering for 20+ years I always thought ICEs were, at best, a bit of a mediocre solution for powering a car. Such a crude, inefficient way of generating power, despite a century of turd polishing. EVs are only barely getting started and the near future possibilities are already mind-blowing.

Tubeless tyres are not so revolutionary, but have proven to be the evolutionary end game in most other applications, so why not bicycles? Anyway they work for me and I wouldn’t use them if they really were a hassle. For me flats are the main hassle with bicycle tyres, so I’m up for anything that reduces the chances of having them.
PeteHski is offline  
Old 06-16-21, 12:17 PM
  #156  
prj71
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: North Central Wisconsin
Posts: 4,076
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2541 Post(s)
Liked 886 Times in 582 Posts
Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
One of the downsides of relying on data to make decisions.
The data is there as to why it's the better idea. You are just one of the many hold outs that refuse to accept change and progress.
prj71 is offline  
Old 06-16-21, 12:21 PM
  #157  
terrymorse 
climber has-been
 
terrymorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 4,834

Bikes: Scott Addict R1

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1407 Post(s)
Liked 1,275 Times in 677 Posts
Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
The data is there as to why it's the better idea. You are just one of the many hold outs that refuse to accept change and progress.
TUBELESS GUY (continued): The truth is out there, dude! You just have to "get it".

Progress is great when it solves a real problem.
__________________
Ride, Rest, Repeat

terrymorse is offline  
Old 06-16-21, 12:28 PM
  #158  
prj71
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: North Central Wisconsin
Posts: 4,076
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2541 Post(s)
Liked 886 Times in 582 Posts
You'll get there eventually. You either lead, follow or fall behind.

https://www.gearpatrol.com/outdoors/...er-going-back/

Then again...maybe you are still using downtube levers to shift gears, toe clips, cup and cone bearing systems, rim brakes and QR axles.

Generally speaking... The road cyclist consumer market is full of laggards when it comes to accepting new/better technology...

Last edited by prj71; 06-16-21 at 12:45 PM.
prj71 is offline  
Old 06-16-21, 12:39 PM
  #159  
Cougrrcj 
Over forty victim of Fate
 
Cougrrcj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 3,890

Bikes: A few...

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 620 Post(s)
Liked 368 Times in 255 Posts
Naaah...

Naaaah, not considering going tubeless - BUT I sure would like to lose my 'spare tire'!
__________________
'75 Fuji S-10S bought new, 52k+ miles and still going!
'84 Univega Gran Tourismo
'84 Univega Viva Sport
'86 Miyata 710
'90 Schwinn Woodlands
Unknown brand MTB of questionable lineage aka 'Mutt Trail Bike'
Plus or minus a few others from time-to-time

Cougrrcj is offline  
Old 06-16-21, 12:48 PM
  #160  
AlmostTrick
Tortoise Wins by a Hare!
 
AlmostTrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Looney Tunes, IL
Posts: 7,398

Bikes: Wabi Special FG, Raleigh Roper, Nashbar AL-1, Miyata One Hundred, '70 Schwinn Lemonator and More!!

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1548 Post(s)
Liked 934 Times in 502 Posts
The one reason I'm avoiding going tubeless is I never ever want my bike or myself sprayed down with sealant, or have it all over my hands, wheels, tires or garage. Or take on the extra maintenance of adding/cleaning goop. Running tubes is not a hassle in the least. Okay, at least three reasons.
AlmostTrick is offline  
Old 06-16-21, 01:04 PM
  #161  
DiabloScott
It's MY mountain
 
DiabloScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mt.Diablo
Posts: 9,655

Bikes: Klein, Merckx, Trek

Mentioned: 67 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3668 Post(s)
Liked 2,083 Times in 1,123 Posts
Originally Posted by Cpn_Dunsel View Post
Nonsense,
I have been running tubeless for ten+ years and have never had one fecking hassle. I have not even had a flat in the past four years of riding 5k miles per year.
Seriously dude. Just because a bunch of wanks cannot get their feces congealed is no reason to spray your own feces around the room and make such false accusations. Pull your head our of your lower intestine and the world won't look like poop to you anymore.
That was uncalled for. My only point is that folks should be a little skeptical when they read the pro-tubeless propaganda by the fan boys (tubeless is superior in every way and the only reason to disagree is if you're a coprophilic luddite masturb8or). Anybody who says there aren't any hassles is lying (even if they haven't experienced those hassles first-hand). The same would be true for tube proponents if they were to say there are no hassles with them.

I'm glad the option is available; the objective is to determine how beneficial it would be for any particular rider and their riding. For lots of people, tubed tires are preferable; especially if going tubeless would require a new set of wheels that they don't really need. I'd like to help people determine what's right for them, and I offered my suggestions very early in this thread.

Last edited by DiabloScott; 06-16-21 at 01:27 PM.
DiabloScott is offline  
Likes For DiabloScott:
Old 06-16-21, 03:03 PM
  #162  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 3,840
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1813 Post(s)
Liked 1,996 Times in 1,271 Posts
Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post

Progress is great when it solves a real problem.
Flats have always been a problem with tubed bicycle tyres.
PeteHski is offline  
Old 06-16-21, 03:55 PM
  #163  
terrymorse 
climber has-been
 
terrymorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 4,834

Bikes: Scott Addict R1

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1407 Post(s)
Liked 1,275 Times in 677 Posts
Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
Progress is great when it solves a real problem.
Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
Flats have always been a problem with tubed bicycle tyres.
Yes, bicycles tires go flat, which is a problem. But:

TUBELESS GUY: Tubeless solves the flat tire problem, dude!
ME: I'm pretty sure that tubeless tires aren't puncture proof.
TUBELESS GUY: You just don't "get it"!
__________________
Ride, Rest, Repeat

terrymorse is offline  
Old 06-16-21, 04:02 PM
  #164  
Eric F
Habitual User
 
Eric F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 3,228

Bikes: 2019 Trek Procliber 9.9 SL, 2018 Storck Fascenario.3 Platinum, 2017 Bear Big Rock 1, 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 2001 Colnago VIP, 1999 Trek 9900 singlespeed, 1977 Nishiki ONP

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1939 Post(s)
Liked 2,983 Times in 1,435 Posts
I have found that the hassle of setting up tubeless tires in the beginning easily outweighs the hassle of my average amount of flat tires in a year, and making those repairs roadside, either having been dropped from the group I was riding with, or forcing others to wait while I make my repairs. The one flat I have had on tubeless was a gashed sidewall that would have wrecked a tubed tire similarly. I booted the gash with a dollar bill, stuck a tube in the rim, hit it with C02, and finished my ride. For me, there's isn't a downside to tubeless on the road. The flats that I'm NOT getting is the bonus. (IMO, YMMV)
Eric F is offline  
Old 06-16-21, 04:09 PM
  #165  
prj71
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: North Central Wisconsin
Posts: 4,076
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2541 Post(s)
Liked 886 Times in 582 Posts
Originally Posted by Eric F View Post
The flats that I'm NOT getting is the bonus. (IMO, YMMV)
That's the part that SOME people aren't getting. Those pin hole flats would be sealed by the sealant so you can keep on riding or maybe just quickly stop and add a little air. It makes tubeless way less of a hassle than roadside repairs.
prj71 is offline  
Old 06-16-21, 04:13 PM
  #166  
Eric F
Habitual User
 
Eric F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 3,228

Bikes: 2019 Trek Procliber 9.9 SL, 2018 Storck Fascenario.3 Platinum, 2017 Bear Big Rock 1, 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 2001 Colnago VIP, 1999 Trek 9900 singlespeed, 1977 Nishiki ONP

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1939 Post(s)
Liked 2,983 Times in 1,435 Posts
Other than bicycles and wheelbarrows, I'm tying to think of another inflated rubber tire vehicle that uses tubes....and coming up empty. Disc brakes and tubeless tires have been the standard in the car and motorcycle world for a very long time. Zero surprise that the bicycling industry is adapting to the same technology.
Eric F is offline  
Old 06-16-21, 04:14 PM
  #167  
Eric F
Habitual User
 
Eric F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 3,228

Bikes: 2019 Trek Procliber 9.9 SL, 2018 Storck Fascenario.3 Platinum, 2017 Bear Big Rock 1, 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 2001 Colnago VIP, 1999 Trek 9900 singlespeed, 1977 Nishiki ONP

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1939 Post(s)
Liked 2,983 Times in 1,435 Posts
Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
That's the part that SOME people aren't getting. Those pin hole flats would be sealed by the sealant so you can keep on riding or maybe just quickly stop and add a little air. It makes tubeless way less of a hassle than roadside repairs.
That's the benefit I see. I still have not had to do a roadside top-off, but was riding with a guy who did. It was so quick, part of the group never needed to come to a full stop.
Eric F is offline  
Old 06-16-21, 04:41 PM
  #168  
terrymorse 
climber has-been
 
terrymorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 4,834

Bikes: Scott Addict R1

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1407 Post(s)
Liked 1,275 Times in 677 Posts
Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
That's the part that SOME people aren't getting. Those pin hole flats would be sealed by the sealant so you can keep on riding or maybe just quickly stop and add a little air. It makes tubeless way less of a hassle than roadside repairs.
And this sealant inside the tire somehow wouldn't provide the same benefit if it were inside a tube?

I know, you don't have to say it. I don't "get it".
__________________
Ride, Rest, Repeat

terrymorse is offline  
Old 06-16-21, 04:44 PM
  #169  
Eric F
Habitual User
 
Eric F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 3,228

Bikes: 2019 Trek Procliber 9.9 SL, 2018 Storck Fascenario.3 Platinum, 2017 Bear Big Rock 1, 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 2001 Colnago VIP, 1999 Trek 9900 singlespeed, 1977 Nishiki ONP

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1939 Post(s)
Liked 2,983 Times in 1,435 Posts
Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
And this sealant inside the tire somehow wouldn't provide the same benefit if it were inside a tube?

I know, you don't have to say it. I don't "get it".
What does a tube and sealant gain you, except weight and rolling resistance?
Eric F is offline  
Old 06-16-21, 04:47 PM
  #170  
terrymorse 
climber has-been
 
terrymorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 4,834

Bikes: Scott Addict R1

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1407 Post(s)
Liked 1,275 Times in 677 Posts
Originally Posted by Eric F View Post
What does a tube and sealant gain you, except weight and rolling resistance?
Compare a tubeless tire to an equivalent normal tire and latex tube.

They weigh about the same, and the rolling resistance is very similar.

Advantage: neither one.
__________________
Ride, Rest, Repeat

terrymorse is offline  
Old 06-16-21, 04:50 PM
  #171  
DiabloScott
It's MY mountain
 
DiabloScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mt.Diablo
Posts: 9,655

Bikes: Klein, Merckx, Trek

Mentioned: 67 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3668 Post(s)
Liked 2,083 Times in 1,123 Posts
Originally Posted by Eric F View Post
I have found that the hassle of setting up tubeless tires in the beginning easily outweighs the hassle of my average amount of flat tires in a year, and making those repairs roadside,
OK now... how many average flats in a year is the break even point?
DiabloScott is offline  
Old 06-16-21, 04:52 PM
  #172  
Eric F
Habitual User
 
Eric F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 3,228

Bikes: 2019 Trek Procliber 9.9 SL, 2018 Storck Fascenario.3 Platinum, 2017 Bear Big Rock 1, 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 2001 Colnago VIP, 1999 Trek 9900 singlespeed, 1977 Nishiki ONP

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1939 Post(s)
Liked 2,983 Times in 1,435 Posts
Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
Compare a tubeless tire to an equivalent normal tire and latex tube.

They weigh about the same, and the rolling resistance is very similar.

Advantage: neither one.
Right. However, adding sealant to a tubed tire setup adds weight. The additional weight inside the tube increases rolling resistance.
Eric F is offline  
Old 06-16-21, 04:53 PM
  #173  
Eric F
Habitual User
 
Eric F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 3,228

Bikes: 2019 Trek Procliber 9.9 SL, 2018 Storck Fascenario.3 Platinum, 2017 Bear Big Rock 1, 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 2001 Colnago VIP, 1999 Trek 9900 singlespeed, 1977 Nishiki ONP

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1939 Post(s)
Liked 2,983 Times in 1,435 Posts
Originally Posted by DiabloScott View Post
OK now... how many average flats in a year is the break even point?
For me, in the 2-3 range. YMMV.
Eric F is offline  
Old 06-16-21, 04:58 PM
  #174  
terrymorse 
climber has-been
 
terrymorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 4,834

Bikes: Scott Addict R1

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1407 Post(s)
Liked 1,275 Times in 677 Posts
Originally Posted by Eric F View Post
Right. However, adding sealant to a tubed tire setup adds weight. The additional weight inside the tube increases rolling resistance.
Rolling resistance isn't caused by weight. It's caused by hysteresis losses from the flexing of the rubber in the contact patch and sidewall.

But for the sake of argument, let's say that adding liquid sealant to the inside of a inner tube somehow increased rolling resistance.

Wouldn't this sealant also increase rolling resistance inside a tubeless tire?
__________________
Ride, Rest, Repeat

terrymorse is offline  
Old 06-16-21, 05:06 PM
  #175  
Eric F
Habitual User
 
Eric F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 3,228

Bikes: 2019 Trek Procliber 9.9 SL, 2018 Storck Fascenario.3 Platinum, 2017 Bear Big Rock 1, 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 2001 Colnago VIP, 1999 Trek 9900 singlespeed, 1977 Nishiki ONP

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1939 Post(s)
Liked 2,983 Times in 1,435 Posts
Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
Rolling resistance isn't caused by weight. It's caused by hysteresis losses from the flexing of the rubber in the contact patch and sidewall.

But for the sake of argument, let's say that adding liquid sealant to the inside of a inner tube somehow increased rolling resistance.

Wouldn't this sealant also increase rolling resistance inside a tubeless tire?
Thanks for the correction. I'm probably wrong on the rolling resistance part.

My thought is that the friction between the tube and the inside of the tire would be increased with more weight in the tube. You don't get that same rub between the inside of a tubeless tire and sealant.
Eric F is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.