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Classic era touring rear derailleur

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Classic era touring rear derailleur

Old 08-17-21, 08:04 PM
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gravelinmygears 
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Classic era touring rear derailleur

Iím building up a late 70s bike with a 13-34 freewheel. A buddy has offered me the following. Which shifts the best? Any other period correctish (70s/early 80s) options that would work better?
- Campagnolo rally w the reinforced neck
- suntour cyclone
- shimano XT (stretching the period a bit)
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Old 08-17-21, 08:09 PM
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Those are all good choices. However, the classic under-rated wide range derailleur from that period would have to be the Suntour VGT Luxe, in my view. Strong and robust mechanically, yet surprisingly light.



Circa 1975, with Suntour sealed bearing pulleys...
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Old 08-17-21, 08:11 PM
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I'd go with first generation XT from around 1983--Deerhead/Deore XT/M700: https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/site...1st_style.html

In fact, I just installed a set on an early 70s road frame, figuring that's what the discerning owner would have upgraded to when he decided to do some touring in the early 80s.
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Old 08-17-21, 08:11 PM
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I love how the Cyclone GT handles my 14-34 5 speed setup, it's a very smooth working mech, a 13-34 should handle the same.
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Old 08-17-21, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by gravelinmygears View Post
... 13-34 ... suntour cyclone.
Probably needs to be a GT with that range.
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Old 08-17-21, 08:16 PM
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Here are a couple more nice long-cage and period-correct RDs to consider. I believe that the Crane was basically early Dura Ace.


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Old 08-17-21, 08:40 PM
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I'm a big fan of the Cyclone GT, but I'm just running a 13-30 cassette..



The SunTour VGT is going to shift just as well, weigh a bit more, and be more robust.

The Shimano Crane is pretty sexy too, and likely works great.

The Huret Duopar has French charm, but a weird way to attach to the dropout and a potentially fragile 2nd parallelogram. Might be the derailleur for you if you like living dangerously!

The Campagnolo Rally might be fine, but when you think touring, you don't think "Campagnolo". Never made any sense to me.

Steve in Peoria, with a distinct Japanese bias when it comes to touring gear.
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Old 08-17-21, 09:10 PM
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Iím running a Cyclone GT with a 12-32 in back and a triple up front, and itís great.


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Old 08-17-21, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by gravelinmygears View Post
- Campagnolo rally w the reinforced neck
If you're after function and considering a Rally, a Shimano Crane GS is probably a better choice. The early Rallys are basically a knock-off of the Crane GS: they look nice, but the Shimano original is more durable and lighter (in addition to less expensive).

- suntour cyclone
If you go with a Cyclone, obviously get a GT model, not the short-cage.
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Old 08-17-21, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by noobinsf View Post
Iím running a Cyclone GT with a 12-32 in back and a triple up front, and itís great.


Itís a GT.
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Old 08-17-21, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by HTupolev View Post
If you're after function and considering a Rally, a Shimano Crane GS is probably a better choice. The early Rallys are basically a knock-off of the Crane GS: they look nice, but the Shimano original is more durable and lighter (in addition to less expensive).


If you go with a Cyclone, obviously get a GT model, not the short-cage.
Thatís what makes the decision difficult- heís offering one of the selections for free. Cyclone GT, Rally or XT. I was tempted with the Rally since the rest of the drivetrain is campy but Iíd like to have the best shifting rear D more than anything.
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Old 08-17-21, 09:28 PM
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The long cage XT would be hard to beat for performance.
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Old 08-18-21, 12:45 AM
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Hands down Cyclone GT for meó silky smooth shifts, beautiful to behold, period correct.
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Old 08-18-21, 08:22 AM
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Rally for panache

Cyclone for practicality AND looks, (plus the split cage is a nice feature to have while touring.)

XT if you're someone who eats pizza with a knife and fork

The choice is yours.
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Old 08-18-21, 08:33 AM
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Another for the Cyclone GT, better looking and lighter then the other cheaper Suntour RDs. Nothing will shift better, and as stated before period correct.
Tim

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Old 08-18-21, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by gravelinmygears View Post
That’s what makes the decision difficult- he’s offering one of the selections for free. Cyclone GT, Rally or XT. I was tempted with the Rally since the rest of the drivetrain is campy but I’d like to have the best shifting rear D more than anything.
Originally Posted by romperrr View Post
Rally for panache

Cyclone for practicality AND looks, (plus the split cage is a nice feature to have while touring.)

XT if you're someone who eats pizza with a knife and fork

The choice is yours.
^^^this. I have on one bike or another almost all of the long cage rear derailleurs mentioned so far in this thread, and they all work pretty well.
The Suntour of that era obviously has the advantage of their patent on the mechanism, which had not yet expired so the others could copy it.

The Shimano 600EX (a precursor to the XT you mention), also works well.

The one that has never worked well for me (but gets raves from many other people), is that Huret Ecopar/Duopar, with all the little pivot points to wear out.

The older Shimano Crane with the long cage is a very solid performer, but somewhat expensive to buy on ebay nowadays.


I always look them up on Disraeli Gears, to get his impressions of performance.
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Old 08-18-21, 08:52 AM
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I've had this thing about "trying out all kinds of touring derailleurs" on my bikes.

If you're to be period correct-ish about your stuff, and you're going to be riding it, you want the best shifting unit, and you're just limiting yourself to these 3...

The Rally is cool- it's unique, it's Campagnolo, it looks cool... I've never used one- but you don't hear much of any good stuff mentioned about them. If you're NOT going to be riding it- the Rally might be a good choice for a neat looking conversation piece. But not a neat looking conversation piece when you're 15 miles from the nearest town and it decides to explode.

The XT derailleur... As you probably know, Deore XT was really built for ATBs- rugged, reliable and the best Shimano had- and there are many versions of Deore XT- I think there are 4 different generations during the 80s, with bunches of variations in each generation. The black covered M730, 732 and M735 are just incredible derailleurs and really set the standard. If it's one of those, it'll be a bit anachronistic- but it'll be the best. If it's the silver deer head- M700- I would stay away from the "super plate" version- but the free pulley version- it's a good choice.

The Cyclone... The Cyclone was one of the lightest, and best shifting derailleurs both of its day and to this very day. They're great and reliable and it's easy to get the chain off, and it's beautiful to look at. I used both a "first generation" and an MII on my 720 for a while- they just felt much more "dainty" than other touring derailleurs. I have not heard a whole bunch of 'Cyclone derailleurs' giving out stories- but I have heard of it. You'd probably be absolutely fine- and it'll be period correct and it'll shift flawlessly and it'll be dominant...

I know you said between the 3- but a 70s tourer should come with the Suntour V-GT Luxe. It'll be as good as the Cyclone and with all the robustness you could want.

My choice- in order- XT M730-M735, Cyclone, XT M700 (either version), Rally.
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Old 08-18-21, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post


I always look them up on Disraeli Gears, to get his impressions of performance.
No mention of the Rally though.
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Old 08-18-21, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by The Golden Boy View Post
......
The Cyclone... The Cyclone was one of the lightest, and best shifting derailleurs both of its day and to this very day. They're great and reliable and it's easy to get the chain off, and it's beautiful to look at. I used both a "first generation" and an MII on my 720 for a while- they just felt much more "dainty" than other touring derailleurs. I have not heard a whole bunch of 'Cyclone derailleurs' giving out stories- but I have heard of it. You'd probably be absolutely fine- and it'll be period correct and it'll shift flawlessly and it'll be dominant...
......
is there a sticky thread on "broken derailleurs"?
well, I'm a fan of the Cyclone GT and have used them since they were new. Still, I feel compelled to mention that I've had two where the lower pivot spring has broken. One broke while the bike was in the work stand, which is perfect timing!

The other broke 3 miles into a bike ride. The chain managed to jump out of the pulleys and jam between the hub flange and freewheel. Somehow the chain managed to also hang up in the front derailleur and cause significant damage.
Some photos, just because...






the disassembled derailleur, with a good spring shown next to the broken spring. The bent end that fits into the hole in the derailleur pivot housing is what broke.


and a close-up of the break


I created a thread about this on the I-Bob group, and was surprised at how many folks have suffered various types of failures. There was no obvious problem with these lower pivot springs, based on the discussion at that time.
By chance, my touring bike has SunTour canti brakes, which use springs with a similar right-hand bend. I had one of these break in the same way, but just that one failure. No indication of a design or manufacturing problem.

There have been some reports of broken lower pivot springs on the Cyclone GT Mark II too, even though the design is completely different. There is a general rule that says "everything eventually breaks", which seems applicable for 40 year old derailleurs.

Steve in Peoria
(I had to carry the poor bike for the 3 mile walk home)

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Old 08-18-21, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by gravelinmygears View Post
No mention of the Rally though.
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Old 08-18-21, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
I thought it was odd. He's so thorough. But I've found other derailleurs missing now that I've stared at the site for a bit. I guess he just writes about the ones he loves and hates.
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Old 08-18-21, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by gravelinmygears View Post
I thought it was odd. He's so thorough. But I've found other derailleurs missing now that I've stared at the site for a bit. I guess he just writes about the ones he loves and hates.
Could be, still odd, plenty of disdain for the Rally though.
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Old 08-18-21, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by steelbikeguy View Post
is there a sticky thread on "broken derailleurs"?
well, I'm a fan of the Cyclone GT and have used them since they were new. Still, I feel compelled to mention that I've had two where the lower pivot spring has broken. One broke while the bike was in the work stand, which is perfect timing!

The other broke 3 miles into a bike ride. The chain managed to jump out of the pulleys and jam between the hub flange and freewheel. Somehow the chain managed to also hang up in the front derailleur and cause significant damage.
Some photos, just because...






the disassembled derailleur, with a good spring shown next to the broken spring. The bent end that fits into the hole in the derailleur pivot housing is what broke.


and a close-up of the break


I created a thread about this on the I-Bob group, and was surprised at how many folks have suffered various types of failures. There was no obvious problem with these lower pivot springs, based on the discussion at that time.
By chance, my touring bike has SunTour canti brakes, which use springs with a similar right-hand bend. I had one of these break in the same way, but just that one failure. No indication of a design or manufacturing problem.


There have been some reports of broken lower pivot springs on the Cyclone GT Mark II too, even though the design is completely different. There is a general rule that says "everything eventually breaks", which seems applicable for 40 year old derailleurs.

Steve in Peoria
(I had to carry the poor bike for the 3 mile walk home)
Wow, that could have "sucked" way more on the Hetchins, glad it didn't take out a chainstay.
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Old 08-18-21, 11:09 AM
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Maybe I missed it, but what bike are we talking about? For me, that would be a major factor, as all of these derailleurs shift well enough, as long as they are in good condition.

The SunTour GT's are beautiful derailleurs that shift really well, but even if period-correct, they would look sorely out of place on a French bike with MAFAC brakes, Philippe bars and an Idťale saddle. There, you want a Simplex or Huret derailleur.
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Old 08-18-21, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by non-fixie View Post
Maybe I missed it, but what bike are we talking about? For me, that would be a major factor, as all of these derailleurs shift well enough, as long as they are in good condition.

The SunTour GT's are beautiful derailleurs that shift really well, but even if period-correct, they would look sorely out of place on a French bike with MAFAC brakes, Philippe bars and an Idťale saddle. There, you want a Simplex or Huret derailleur.
It's funny that you ask....this discussion got me thinking about another bike that has a non-period rear derailleur - my late 70s / early 80s Ritchey road. All Campagnolo except the rear derailleur is a Deore XT. Shifts great but I'm thinking I may try something different on there.

The bike I originally posted about is a Cinelli SC that I'm building up from the frame. Most of it is Campy NR but I'm straying from the narrow freewheel.
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