WhyFi

What is this testing? That the carabiners can hold a few static pounds? The center bag is already tearing and the bag on the right is screaming for mercy, all without having to deal with the jostling of a bike ride- that's a success? Also, this doesn't tell you anything about the ergonomics of having these pendulous weights swinging from your person while riding a bike and navigating streets and traffic.

tessellahedron

the picture was taken prior to testing. Those are used bags. The point is to push the limit and none failed so I apparently under loaded them (but in reality it's just not that serious).

I know the ergonomics from years of shopping with a mountain bike. Again, this is really just to compensate for the switch to 10 speed bars and riding position.

dedhed

Successful in a static test, not real world dynamic loading.

Not all bags are created equal. Around here some of the higher end stores like Sendik's, Metcalf's, Usingers have noticeably thicker bags, Menards aren't bad either.

SalsaShark

You might as well just have the cashier throw your groceries in the road for you to pick up. This is where they are going to end up anyway.

tessellahedron

that's not a picture of the test, just the setup (seriously?). I took it 8 blocks. You are correct about the bags, the white ones are much thicker and stronger than yellow.

I once got an entire month's worth of food with no backpack or trailer. I gave away half and carried the test with great difficulty. I had to stop and readjust frequently, but the food only hit the ground one time.

surely there have been multiple little drops over the years of carrying groceries but the one above is the only specific one I remember.

Maelochs

If you already have panniers .... I used to use a big old gym bag as a trunk .... and laid sideways across the top of the panniers, I could fit two .... ... Bags about one foot square and 30 inches long, about five cubic feet of extra capacity .... but usually I laid heavy stuff across the pannier tops .... I'd bring a thin cloth bedspread to wrap the stuff like a burrito and bungee it all down .... And hey, if you don't like packing bags in the store .... how do your panniers get full of groceries?

Anyway, this is a weird and amusing thread. Added points.

brianinc-ville

OK, if I get what the OP is saying: the goal is to have a way of bringing an unexpected amount of groceries home. It sounds like you're using rear panniers on a daily basis. My move would be to use Wald folding wire baskets on the rear rack instead. They're more convenient anyway (you can just throw your stuff in and then grab it out at your destination), but the other advantage is that they're really easy to tie or bungee stuff to. In my bookbag, I keep an extra bungee cord and a Bagito micro-stuffable grocery bag. They come in handy really often, when I end up needing to carry more stuff than I expected.

My usual move when I end up with more groceries than I planned for: go to the produce department and ask for a cardboard fruit-shipping box. They're usually happy to give me one for free. Bungee it to the rear rack. Voilà.

Leisesturm

Is this a good time to point out that almost no grocery chain in America still supplies bags with handles that can be 'clipped' to anything. The very few that still do use paper handles (and paper bags!) that are actually HSO's that will separate from the main bag with anything more than a double roll of toilet tissue inside. I am using a 65L Door Dash style insulated backpack box for grocery runs where the trailer is overkill. A 40L backpack for lighter loads, and the rear rack rarely gets used for anything anymore.

tessellahedron

I've seen those folding baskets and I agree, they're really nice.
The bags in the photo are from dollar general and the family market. Those are the only places to buy groceries in this county.

I thought people in San Luis Obispo were insane and violating my freedom when they outlawed plastic bags, forcing me to pick my items up one by one after the paper bags tear. A slight rain provoked the failure of every single bag on one of my trips, and that was with them in the cab of a pickup. I hate SLO and will never go back.

But now I'm in an area with the opposite problem. I can't identify the right wing nut jobs here because there are so few people who aren't. I just avoid everyone. I keep getting flyers in the mail for assault rifles on sale. But there are 7 churches in this town of 1200 people. Yuk. Long story short, I think plastic bags will be eliminated from this county in the same way as the guns: from their cold dead hands.

I have really mixed emotions about that.

This morning I filled the panniers and used the strap for a bag with two boxes of cereal and a bag with two full size bags of chips. Only 2 bags but it was too much volume for the backpack, so I was glad I choose the strap.

Herzlos

Single use plastic bags are a plague on the planet - they take hundreds of years to properly disintegrate and most of them are so unnecessarily used by bagging literally everything in and often thrown out later. I've always used them as trash bags, or took them back to the stores to re-pack goods*.

Here we moved to a token fee for them (initially about $0.10 and now creeping up to $0.50) which resulted in a huge decrease in single use bags, and a lot of people have seamlessly moved over to reusable bags which cost about $1-1.50.

Paper bags at least recycle/biodegrade a lot quicker, but they are really just a stop gap and intended for people to get from the store to their trunk.

*10 years ago, taking empty plastic bags into a store just made you look like a shoplifter, I lost track of how many times I'd get followed around by security.

Milton Keynes

You could do like a local DUI offender did and mount a plastic milk crate on the back of his bike for carrying groceries, which also contains his daily large can of Natty Lite Ice.

tessellahedron

I've always re-used or recycled them. I was mainly pissed about the ban because I had to buy trash bags in addition to the ****** paper bags they overcharged me for, per local statute. I still don't see the problem with recycling them.

prj71

I just open the back hatch of my SUV and put them in there.

SurferRosa

Why can't people just use canvas (or similar) reusable shopping bags? Why is that so ******* hard?

bwilli88 

My Market bikes, The American bike has both the Wald rear folding baskets and a Wald woody front basket. It is an 8 speed Shimano nexus.

My American market bike. a Raleigh Grand Sport
My Cambodia Market bike a Gazelle Opafiets, 5 speed drum brakes with a pair of Wald folding rear baskets. generic front basket. The wheels are 635 ERTO 28x1 3/8,


My Cmbodian Market bike a Gazelle Opafiets


I also have the Wald bags that are fitted for the folding baskets.

Herzlos

Laziness. I think we found that even just asking people if they need a bag instead of automatically bagging everything cut the waste down drastically.
I always hated seeing people in shopping centres carrying a dozen bags, each with 1 or 2 items in them, when they'd all have gone into a single bag.

We also found that given a choice between paying $0.10 for a disposable bag or $1 for a reusable bag, a lot of people went for the reusable ones.

tessellahedron

1. Forgot them at home
2. Forgot them in the car
3. Made an unplanned stop
4. Want bags to reuse
5. Empty plastic bags are lighter and more compact
6. No one had been able to explain the why using and recycling plastic film is so bad
7. Because I simply prefer them

that's off the top of my head. It's irrelevant so I'll leave it at that.

tessellahedron

Those are gorgeous bikes. Worth investing in good baskets.

bwilli88 

answer to #4 I reuse my canvas bags all the time. Ans #1 They stay on the bike.
ans #6 They really do not biodegrade and stay in the environment as toxic waste or to damage wild life.

Maelochs

If you cannot figure out why single-use plastic bags are not good things .... you simply do not want to.

Not being self-righteous here---I use them because my wife likes to use them as trashcan liners, and not using them wouldn't change their availability---but I wouldn't mind if they weren't around .... nor would a bunch of wildlife, and if a sad side-effect of not having so much plastic meant fewer toxic chemicals in the air and water ... well, I guess I could live with that.

But yeah .... if you cannot figure out what is wrong with disposable plastic, you just don't want to.

tessellahedron

How is it so hard not to litter? My bags always have something in them or are rolled into tight balls in my pantry.

I have enough trouble remembering to actually use coupons I take, much less the bags. The worst is loading plastic bags into the cart and finding your reusable bags still there at the bottom. It happened enough times that I just said forget it.

I can remember not to litter because I've been practicing ever since they drilled it into me in elementary school.

tessellahedron

Polyethylene isn't toxic, unless you're talking about micro particles that can fill an animal's digestive tract.

I don't see bags decomposing from uv or being eaten by animals in my pantry (although there is a mouse!).

it's a balance between banning potentially dangerous things and demanding responsibility from users. Are we really so irresponsible?

Maelochs

yeah .... ummm .... do you think those bags grow on trees?

Here's a hint: they are made out of petroleum. Maybe you have groves of petroleum trees out where you live?

And there is this gem: "Polyethylene isn't toxic, unless you're talking about micro particles that can fill an animal's digestive tract."

Yeah, animals can eat them .... fish also ... they are a huge issue in the ocean. So yes .... they are not poisonous, just deadly, as you note.

Like I said, if you bothered to look for yourself you wouldn't have any problem getting facts.

And as you yourself know, they don't last long at all ... . they tear easily, and then, where do you dispose fo them? You throw them in the trash so they blow out of landfills .... or you take them to be "recycled" but the truth there is that they Cannot be recycled. They get washed and chopped up to be used as blown-in insulation in some cases, but the supply outstrips demand as far as I have ever heard ....... so yeah, a lot of pollution to take them from oil to plastic to stores where they get used a couple times and tossed ....

Not saying don't use them, but if you want to argue that they are environmentally benign, at least do a little research. Not that credibility is a thing here at BF.

tessellahedron

there's a big difference between burning petroleum and using/reusing petroleum based resins.

how will animals and fish eat my plastic bags? I already told you I don't litter, the bags are rolled in my pantry or have stuff in them.

I haven't thrown an empty plastic bag in the trash in years, so no, they don't blow out of landfills.

if you wanna be credible, make your point.