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TdF Femmes

Old 07-26-22, 09:32 AM
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TdF Femmes

Anybody watching? It's been good racing. I haven't caught up with stage 3 yet today, but it was inspiring to see the undisputed GOAT earn yellow in stage 2. Nobody deserves that honor more than Vos.

Unfortunately, crashes and sickness seem to be playing big roles.
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Old 07-26-22, 12:45 PM
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I didn't think I had it in me to watch more cycling but i am LOVING it!!!!
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Old 07-26-22, 03:43 PM
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I only just caught up to the carnage on the Hautacam last night. I should be able to catch the TT and Champs highlights tonight and perhaps clear the deck for see Vos do some of her GOAT stuff a day or two after that.

I hate it when vacations get in the way of me working with racing on in the background.
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Old 07-26-22, 03:43 PM
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I turned it on today and thought nah, and then thought, wait this looks pretty good. Itís just that I donít know anybody yet. So I am going to watch the rest of it and get to know who the riders are.

That final hundred meters looked absolutely brutal!
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Old 07-26-22, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by DLBroox View Post
I turned it on today and thought nah, and then thought, wait this looks pretty good. Itís just that I donít know anybody yet. So I am going to watch the rest of it and get to know who the riders are.

That final hundred meters looked absolutely brutal!
Yep, that makes a big difference.
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Old 07-26-22, 03:52 PM
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I was thinking that van vleuten was going to do amazing things in the mountains. She clearly had an off day today - somewhat sick - but she survived without losing too much time. I hope she recovers in time for the mountain stages.
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Old 07-26-22, 08:51 PM
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I think they are really putting a good effort into pulling this off. I hope it survives. Some of the problems I am seeing is they could have scouted the routes better. Some really narrow roads combined with sharp turns that shouldn't have been there in the first place and perhaps poor street sweeping of the roads for debris. Disappointed there is no time trial. Back to back real mountain stages including the final stage finishing on a mountain top is interesting.
Good racing today.
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Old 07-26-22, 09:01 PM
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I love it. Women's cycling is growing up. (The races still have some catching up to do. The women are fully capable of riding the men's courses. To limit them to 1/2 to 2/3s the distance and half the stages is demeaning.) Hearing that one of the front runners had to stop for (I'm guessing) a plumbing emergency and still finishing just a little back despite being sick, that's classic TdF as has been played out forever. Having a true GOAT (who's had to settle for second twice). (The quick answer from Mark Cavendish last year when asked who's the greatest racing now.)
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Old 07-26-22, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
I love it. Women's cycling is growing up. (The races still have some catching up to do. The women are fully capable of riding the men's courses. To limit them to 1/2 to 2/3s the distance and half the stages is demeaning.) Hearing that one of the front runners had to stop for (I'm guessing) a plumbing emergency and still finishing just a little back despite being sick, that's classic TdF as has been played out forever. Having a true GOAT (who's had to settle for second twice). (The quick answer from Mark Cavendish last year when asked who's the greatest racing now.)
I don't know if the women can race the distances that men race. But the shorter courses and the smaller number of stages are deliberate marketing decisions, rather than about the women's stamina. The shorter stages make for punchier races and the 8 stages are less expensive to pull off and better for holding the audiences attention.

They need to build the audience. They need to attract sponsors.

Also, beginning right after the TdF hommes was also a good marketing decision, as the attention is focused on France and there is a traditional lull for the men between the TdF and the Vuelta. I think they are off to a great start.

They need some charismatic stars. A female Peter Sagan, MvdP, Cav, etc.. They have some great racers, though some of the best (Vos, Van Vleuten) are nearing the ends of their careers. Vollering, Kopecky, Longo Borghini are great racers, but among them I don't see a breakout media star.

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Old 07-26-22, 09:36 PM
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Oh also, Zwift's participation in this is a big positive.
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Old 07-27-22, 09:11 AM
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I've been watching it too. I'd tried to watch some women's road cycling in the past but since they were one day races they lacked any visible team effort. And most were circuits which to me are boring, even in man's cycling. I did watch a women's TT that was on a year or two ago and that was interesting.

However I'm still waiting to see anything that looks like a team effort. Vos did have a lead out for one sprint, but not many of the other stuff seems to be team efforts. Though I suppose maybe they aren't all use to doing races that need a team. Other than a few that make it look like they really want the win, most just seem out there for the ride.

However that also might be that the first routes are not as demanding so that everyone can get some experience with this type of event. Have women been doing any tours lately? Or have they all been one day races?
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Old 07-27-22, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post

However that also might be that the first routes are not as demanding so that everyone can get some experience with this type of event. Have women been doing any tours lately? Or have they all been one day races?
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Old 07-27-22, 03:24 PM
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The ladies are not without some real stage races on their calendars. But then there's the Tour de France effect. Nice article on it here.

I caught the highlights of stages 1 and 2 today. It looked like good racing. The real outlier for me was the rider who arrive at the stage 2 crash very late and very fast, rocketed through the middle, and took out others who were busy avoiding the crash. How did they not slow?
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Old 07-27-22, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post

However I'm still waiting to see anything that looks like a team effort.
You'll be happy with today's stage 4. But I also understand what you are saying. There is a big talent different between the top riders and say the 100th placed rider. That's due to the lack of women in professional cycling but hopefully that will change. The strongest women are forming their own pelotons each day while leaving the others behind.

Someone else also mentioned about the shorter stages. They used to say that about the marathon at the Olympics and proved to be wrong. Again, they are going to have to pregress to that point and need more women to get involved so the time gaps aren't huge.
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Old 07-27-22, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by gpsblake View Post
You'll be happy with today's stage 4. But I also understand what you are saying. There is a big talent different between the top riders and say the 100th placed rider. That's due to the lack of women in professional cycling but hopefully that will change. The strongest women are forming their own pelotons each day while leaving the others behind.

Someone else also mentioned about the shorter stages. They used to say that about the marathon at the Olympics and proved to be wrong. Again, they are going to have to pregress to that point and need more women to get involved so the time gaps aren't huge.
That's good. It'll be a hour or so before I get time to watch the replay. I do want the women's tours to succeed and be a thing for years to come. Is there any reason why women don't do a grand tour? Or is it just previous lack interest of the broadcast networks televising it, organizers and fan support?
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Old 07-27-22, 06:19 PM
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Doesn't make sense for pro women to have to ride as far as pro men. By and large the pro women have no interest in making races longer, other than having a Monument like Milan San Remo as a once a year spectacle. Pro women may kick any average Joe's butt but are significantly slower than pro men, so having the same distances would also cause the peloton to be out on the roads much longer and reduce the attacking nature of the current races. Then there's the logistical difficulty of nature breaks. Finally, because there is less money in women's pro cycling, teams are smaller and few women are able to dedicate the hours training to have the endurance to properly adapt to super long days.

More stage races and stage race days are fine except there needs to be someone paying for them, and more importantly, broadcasting them -- very $$$. Don't forget the support staff that have to be at the races the whole time, too.

Until there's plenty of money available to go around to field a number of competitive teams, lengthening races will simply stretch out the differences between the haves and have-nots. A healthy sport is not one where the obvious favorites easily roll over pack fodder every time.
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Old 07-27-22, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
I've been watching it too. I'd tried to watch some women's road cycling in the past but since they were one day races they lacked any visible team effort.
https://sports.nbcsports.com/2021/09...ycling-worlds/
https://www.eurosport.com/cycling/st...59/story.shtml
https://www.eurosport.com/cycling/ro...95/story.shtml
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Old 07-27-22, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
Is there any reason why women don't do a grand tour? Or is it just previous lack interest of the broadcast networks televising it, organizers and fan support?
My opinion is you just answered your own question. An example is the men's tour de france. Every male in that race is a professional who does nothing but race bikes all year long. With the women, a lot of what you see in this years Femme tour are not full time paid professionals, but hobbyist or part-timers who have to hold down jobs and have to pay for all their expenses. Marianna Vos, the strongest woman in this years tour, probably makes less money than any male on a pro or even continential male team.

Men's team have a hard enough time to find sponsors so asking them to also fully sponsor a women's team is a tough task. They could use someone with deep pockets to help, much like the NBA does for the WNBA.

But it's getting better. This and the Giro Donne tour (women equal to Giro) and others are trying to get traction for the women. And I hope it works.
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Old 07-27-22, 09:32 PM
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Many of the strongest women's teams - Jumbo-Visma, Trek-Segafredo, DSM, Movistar a few others- are associated with men's teams and thereby take advantage of the support staff of those larger organizations. But this too is a relatively new development. The level of professionalism in the women's peloton has increased greatly in the last few years, but it still has a ways to go.

The fact that we're having this conversation is evidence of things moving in the right direction and also of the important role the TdF Femmes can play in the development of this sport. This crew is a bunch of fairly hard-core pro cycling fans, but our awareness of what's been going on with women's racing is spotty. And the Giro Rosa - a very good thing - just doesn't have the impact on our awareness that the TdF F brings.

Onward to the mountains. I'm hoping van Vleuten is feeling better and, as Chris Horner would say, puts on a show. When she's healthy, she's the most fearsome climber in the women's peloton.
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Old 07-27-22, 11:27 PM
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Been watching it regular, but just not coming here... you know, the threat of spoilers...
It's been great! I think it's exactly at the right level of race/length/difficulty. It is the 1st in 33 years?
Always best to start 'reasonable', measure the result and then move forward.
As noted, you don;t want stages so long and hard that 1/2 the field doesn't make a time cut or instead of a really competitive, contentious final kilometers, you have riders straggling in , minutes apart. I think they got it right for stage length and difficulty. But we'll see what the mountains bring.
Women's Pro has come a long way. No longer the field rolling around at 3/4 pace.
Now attacks, breaks, splits in the field - all the good stuff when they're actually racing.
I think it will continue to get better. But we have to expect some disparity in the riders.
Today's stage was great ! Looking forward to every coming stage.
Ride On
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Old 07-28-22, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by gpsblake View Post
My opinion is you just answered your own question. An example is the men's tour de france. Every male in that race is a professional who does nothing but race bikes all year long. With the women, a lot of what you see in this years Femme tour are not full time paid professionals, but hobbyist or part-timers who have to hold down jobs and have to pay for all their expenses. Marianna Vos, the strongest woman in this years tour, probably makes less money than any male on a pro or even continential male team.

Men's team have a hard enough time to find sponsors so asking them to also fully sponsor a women's team is a tough task. They could use someone with deep pockets to help, much like the NBA does for the WNBA.

But it's getting better. This and the Giro Donne tour (women equal to Giro) and others are trying to get traction for the women. And I hope it works.
I think youíve hit on a really key point, especially after seeing some of these crashes the past couple of days. Iíve been watching the tour for twenty years and have seen some really horrific crashes, but some of these crashes seem to be made way worse by riders who donít know how to avoid plunging head first into one. The rider who tried to ride through the crash the other day and rode right through another woman would not have happened in the menís tour. And todayís mammoth crash was eye popping.

I am a woman who is hoping this race grows into a real long term thing, but without the money and support, woman are going to get hurt because pros are racing next to amateurs. Thatís just setting it up for failure.
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Old 07-28-22, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by gpsblake View Post
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
Is there any reason why women don't do a grand tour? Or is it just previous lack interest of the broadcast networks televising it, organizers and fan support?
My opinion is you just answered your own question.
It was perhaps a non-question I already pretty much knew the main answer for. Though I have wondered if there is any physiological reason or if women cyclist had no desire to do grand tours and other such things.

As you said, I did enjoy Stage 4 more. Seemed to show more teamwork and will to continue. Especially the FDJ rider that got the tire from her teammate's bike and installed it herself when no team car or neutral service car was there. Also the exchanging of bikes, and riders waiting to help their team mate that flatted get back to the group.

All in all, the best stage yet IMO.

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Old 07-28-22, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
That's good. It'll be a hour or so before I get time to watch the replay. I do want the women's tours to succeed and be a thing for years to come. Is there any reason why women don't do a grand tour? Or is it just previous lack interest of the broadcast networks televising it, organizers and fan support?
Historically it's been down to sponsorship, the money is in the men's racing, compared to something like tennis where the prizes are split a lot more evenly, and the coverage then reflects that.
I really like track cycling in the olympics for this reason, there's equal coverage between men's and women's events and very edge of the seat racing all round.

Talking of this tour, personally I'd have loved to have seen what the great Beryl Burton would have done on a multi day race like this had it been around many years ago.
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Old 07-29-22, 06:39 AM
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If the viewership numbered are to be believed, it is a hit. There are some first year/restart issues, but just as entertaining to watch as the men's version.(to me at least)
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Old 07-29-22, 06:49 AM
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Give a shoutout to the 2 announcers whether you like them or not. They're doing their best to get us acquainted with every rider and their backstory. Tough job. Harder than an auctioneer's job.
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