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New cable stops, on True Temper S3 frameset

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New cable stops, on True Temper S3 frameset

Old 09-13-22, 10:39 PM
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akropilot
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New cable stops, on True Temper S3 frameset

Hi, I'm going to be stripping, repainting, rebuilding a frameset based on TrueTemper S3 steel. It currently has downtube shifter bosses, but I'll be switching to a modern brifter setup. I see 2 options: 1) Just installing the Shimano SP18T cable stop adapters over the shifter bosses (easy and simple), 2) Removing the shifter bosses (grind it, file it, emery cloth it) and installing new cable stops either on the head-tube or further up the downtube (using these for example).

The latter approach is cleaner in terms of looks and cabling, and now's the time to do it while the paint is stripped. I'd have the option of drilling the frame to take the screw (or pop rivet), or finding someone to silver-solder it on.
Am I creating more headache than it's worth?
Would anyone venture to guess the cost of someone silver-soldering cable stops to my headtube?
Is drilling an additional hole in the paper-thin S3 downtube or headtube creating a dangerous stress-riser?

I'd locate the cable stops here or on the head-tube (no this is not my frame...just an example)
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Old 09-13-22, 11:50 PM
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All I can say is that I put downtube shifter bosses on my frames even though they aren't going to have downtube shifters on them.
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Old 09-14-22, 01:06 AM
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I think adaptors over the DT bosses actually work better. If they seize up you have more options. You can also run with DT shifters or barcons in the future when Shimano have switched everything to 15-speed electronic and you have decided enough is enough.

I remember thinking Jobst Brandt was a bit of a retrogrouch getting stuck on 7-speed. But now that I'm probably about the age he was at the time I don't see why we need more than 9.
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Old 09-14-22, 06:36 AM
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the first thing the industry did when they got to 11+ is drop the front chain ring. So apparently we didn't need all those gears after all. I'm pretty much switched over to 2x10, but nowadays a majority of production bikes are 1x except the pure roadies. Which is a niche that's fading as all road takes over.
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Old 09-14-22, 08:36 AM
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As I strip down the paint I'll take a closer look, and maybe seek out Erickson bikes here in Seattle for a quote for brazing. I'm definitely going to run 2x11 on this one...it's a road machine. I get plenty of 7-speed downtube friction shifting on my 86 Colnago to satisfy the retrogrouch in me.
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Old 09-14-22, 09:02 AM
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While I do prefer specific (I make my own) DT cable stops over shifter bosses given that this frame is made from REALLY thin stuff I would suggest just using the lever boss mounted adaptors. That they nearly all have barrel adjusters and modern ft ders are very sensitive to cable tensions this feature will be wanted.

BTW if you do add braze on stops take some time on where to locate them. I see many bikes with stops poorly located so that the casing loops are too tightly run and/or have too long a casing section. Small bikes with less shifter/bars to DT stops distance suffer more from this potential than taller bikes do.

Back in the day adding braze ons were not too costly, maybe $20 each. These days I would expect a lot more as time is much more valued than it use to be. Ofcourse if the frame is being repainted and if the painter is doing the braze ons the added time is pretty small. But to strip, prep, braze, clean up for touch up paint will take a lot more time that isn't partially covered by the complete respray. Andy
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Old 09-14-22, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by akropilot View Post
As I strip down the paint I'll take a closer look, and maybe seek out Erickson bikes here in Seattle for a quote for brazing. I'm definitely going to run 2x11 on this one...it's a road machine. I get plenty of 7-speed downtube friction shifting on my 86 Colnago to satisfy the retrogrouch in me.
R&E can take this on if that's what you mean by Erickson. There are a couple others here on the board who might be interested who are in the 206.

R&E Prices are here: Bicycle Frame Repairs | Price List for R+E Cycles (rodbikes.com)

I tend to agree that it's not worth it. It is easy enough to do but I would put that $100+ into something else that yields more bang for the buck.
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Old 09-14-22, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post

BTW if you do add braze on stops take some time on where to locate them. I see many bikes with stops poorly located so that the casing loops are too tightly run and/or have too long a casing section. Small bikes with less shifter/bars to DT stops distance suffer more from this potential than taller bikes do.
This is why I don't like them on the head tube. It seems the angle when the bars turn cause failure at the ferrules after a season or two.
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Old 09-14-22, 09:29 PM
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One of my frames had lugs with the adjuster on the head tube lug. The rear adjuster broke on the way to France and the whole time I was there shifting the rear derailleur was a bit random. The whole country shuts down in August and I didn't give myself time to fix anything before my ride started, so I just had to live with it. Now I have IRD adjusters mounted to the bosses that allow the cable to come out
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Old 09-15-22, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by duanedr View Post
This is why I don't like them on the head tube. It seems the angle when the bars turn cause failure at the ferrules after a season or two.
A reason I do like them on the HT though is the cables don't rub the paint on the sides of the HT. I always put them on the DT though and now put helitape underneath where they rub. I had never heard of helitape back in the day.
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Old 09-15-22, 03:45 AM
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I suspect most angles have been covered at this point, but I'll add one other, maybe it's meta. I haven't any idea what your actual frame is, but if it's something unique which you might ever move along you the next person, consider yourself just a steward. Everything I currently have is vintage, so I'm active on CR and the BF C&V forums. From time-to-time you see people restoring frames from an earlier time. They wind up removing braze-ons to try and bring it closer to its original state. (I understand paint takes a beating and had to be redone sometimes, but pains can grow in you too.)

I say use the Shimano thingies and spend your money on something else. The next person might thank you.

PS. I'd not heard of True Temper S3 before, so looked it up. Given its thin dimensions, it would seem the less extra heat applied to it the better. Another (small) reason not to replace otherwise functional bits.
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Old 09-18-22, 09:03 PM
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All good points made, and appreciate the feedback.
I finally got my hands on the frame, the since the bosses are only 3" from the headtube I'll definitely go with the Shimano adapters with barrel adjusters.
The project will be an interesting one. As far as I can tell, S3 is a tubeset with the same metallurgy of OX. My gut is that this was the last major investment in steels (2009) before the loss of unit volume in the industry to carbon.
The innovation is in the drawing and shaping. For example the downtube is ovalized laterally at the BB but vertically at the HT, which is hard to pull off when you're already drawing down to 0.4mm in the middle (ish). It's also built as a compact-only tubeset (ST 539 (C-T) with HT 560mm). With True Temper's demise, I'm not sure if you can even buy S3 tubesets these days.
The frame is NOS, was built as a Salsa Primero (https://www.salsacycles.com/bikes/primero), and has Salsa branded dropouts, but somewhere along the line Salsa pulled the plug and the Asian OEM ended up with some inventory. With the OEM's paint *over* the Salsa red paint, it comes in at 1489g, which is pretty remarkable.

You might also not be impressed with the welds, but if I slop some micro slurry around them before I repaint, maybe I can make myself forget what's under there.
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Old 09-18-22, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by guy153 View Post
A reason I do like them on the HT though is the cables don't rub the paint on the sides of the HT. I always put them on the DT though and now put helitape underneath where they rub. I had never heard of helitape back in the day.
There are several ways to skin that cat. There are cable guide loops that can be put on the headtube to contain the cable run or a section of a stainless spoke silver brazed along the side will keep the cables from rubbing the paint or even putting a grommet on the cable housing that buffers the headtube. Or tape.
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Old 09-21-22, 11:52 AM
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Since you made the decision already, this option is mute.
Cross the cables. Reduces housing bend and clears the HT. Need to make sure the cross over under the DT clears the tube.


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Old 09-21-22, 11:03 PM
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Nice tip, thanks. I'll give that a try. Frame is stripped, waiting for paint and parts now. Interestingly the frame weighs 1400g on the dot...pretty nice for a steel frame.
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