Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

Threaded headset: Adjustable race with an integrated keyed washer?

Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Threaded headset: Adjustable race with an integrated keyed washer?

Old 09-23-22, 08:11 AM
  #1  
PTbiker
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: Portugal
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Threaded headset: Adjustable race with an integrated keyed washer?

Hi there, folks. I can't figure out how to remove/adjust a threaded race, as it seems to be stuck. Here are some images I've uploaded - please open the URLs manually.

Complete headset before disassembly. The round metal piece below the locknut covers the keyed washer.
cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikeforums.net-vbulletin/1680x2000/headset_complete_9a197ec778a6a44d461b253ecbcc463ee16c615b.jpg

A groove and a hole on the thread
cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikeforums.net-vbulletin/2000x1709/headset_groove_5bc6522266ee8b60a2a789619cfa27d4553f8ff3.jpg

You can see the tab on the keyed washer.
cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikeforums.net-vbulletin/1660x2000/headset_keyed_washer_73e5e237050b0b8691e3eb8d2b22184332fb4a81.jpg

The adjustable race seems to be integrated with the keyed washer.
cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikeforums.net-vbulletin/1443x1419/headset_without_locknut_and_washer_c6ad1129ae712137ad32bb0d7870a6e3bde26f56.jpg
PTbiker is offline  
Likes For PTbiker:
Old 09-23-22, 09:15 AM
  #2  
Andrew R Stewart 
Senior Member
 
Andrew R Stewart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 16,756

Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Srewart 650B ATB

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3639 Post(s)
Liked 2,582 Times in 1,621 Posts
To my eyes it looks like the tabbed lock washer has become rotated on the steerer and it's tab is not jammed on the steerer's threads (and no longer residing in the steerer's groove). The usual fix is to grab the outer edge of the washer with a large pair of slip lock pliers and rotate the washer back so its tab reengages the groove. This tab out of groove rotation is fairly common and easily worked around. I know of no threaded race that has a tabbed aspect as that would preclude the threaded feature from being used Andy
__________________
AndrewRStewart
Andrew R Stewart is offline  
Old 09-23-22, 10:42 AM
  #3  
PTbiker
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: Portugal
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
To my eyes it looks like the tabbed lock washer has become rotated on the steerer and it's tab is not jammed on the steerer's threads (and no longer residing in the steerer's groove). The usual fix is to grab the outer edge of the washer with a large pair of slip lock pliers and rotate the washer back so its tab reengages the groove. This tab out of groove rotation is fairly common and easily worked around. I know of no threaded race that has a tabbed aspect as that would preclude the threaded feature from being used Andy
Hi, thanks for the reply. By saying I should grab the outer edge of the washer, are you implying that it's a separated piece from the race? It looks like one single piece (race and washer), but the black paint could be confusing me. Another doubt: isn't the threaded race supposed to be turned by hand?
PTbiker is offline  
Old 09-23-22, 10:51 AM
  #4  
Andrew R Stewart 
Senior Member
 
Andrew R Stewart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 16,756

Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Srewart 650B ATB

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3639 Post(s)
Liked 2,582 Times in 1,621 Posts
Originally Posted by PTbiker View Post
Hi, thanks for the reply. By saying I should grab the outer edge of the washer, are you implying that it's a separated piece from the race? It looks like one single piece (race and washer), but the black paint could be confusing me. Another doubt: isn't the threaded race supposed to be turned by hand?
Yes, I have never seen a threaded race with a built-in tab, the two are mutually exclusive of each other. When the tab is forced off center (rotated so the tab is no longer in the steerer's groove) the tab can deform the steerer's threads and the race will not turn easily at that spot. So it seems to me that your tabbed washer is jammed onto the threads and the race is snugged up against the washer. I suspect some "working with" the pliers will be needed on both the washer (to align it's tab back to the groove and maybe lift it up and off altogether) and on the race now that it will be unscrewed through that possibly damaged threads.

Generally any thread damage on the steerer is a non issue as the spot will be small and with a little effort the race can be screwed back over the spot on reassembly. Andy
__________________
AndrewRStewart
Andrew R Stewart is offline  
Likes For Andrew R Stewart:
Old 09-23-22, 03:35 PM
  #5  
FBinNY 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 36,478

Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter

Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4613 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 486 Times in 325 Posts
Sometimes it pays to pour yourself a cup of coffee and think things through a bit.

In this case, ask yourself how could a threaded race could end up there if it were (note the use of subjunctive mood) keyed in to the fork so it couldn't turn.

The answer is that it couldn't. So either the race isn't threaded and simply slides on, or the keyed part is separate from the threaded part.

Now, you can go back and read Andy's post for the solution.
FBinNY is online now  
Likes For FBinNY:
Old 09-25-22, 06:47 PM
  #6  
PTbiker
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: Portugal
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
The race is indeed threaded; it became loose after tightening the locknut. The keyed washer is still stuck, though. And now I know that one of the front brake arms is making a noise when testing for headset play. The reason for disassembling the headset was a creaking sound whenever I pressed on either side of the handlebar. At first I thought the steel handlebar was about to break, but then isolated the creak. After a partial disassembly, cleaning and lubrication (couldn't reach the bearings), the noise is gone. Let's hope it doesn't come back.

Last edited by PTbiker; 09-25-22 at 07:09 PM.
PTbiker is offline  
Old 09-25-22, 07:33 PM
  #7  
FBinNY 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 36,478

Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter

Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4613 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 486 Times in 325 Posts
At some point you're going to want to, or need to, deal with this because the headset will not stay adjusted on its own. As Andy said, the object is to grab the key washer with a pair of Channellocks and turn it until the key lines up with the slot then lift it off. Then you can decide whether to replace the key washer with a new one if it's marred too badly for your taste, or just put it back and use continue to use it.

If you're still having trouble seeing the key washer as separate from the lower race, try turning the lower race in a way as to tighten the headset. That will move it away from the from the washer and make it easier for you to go forward.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

“Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is online now  
Old 09-26-22, 12:35 PM
  #8  
PTbiker
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: Portugal
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
I don't have that type of pliers, and there isn't much space to hold the washer. What about hitting the tab with a screwdriver until it reaches the groove?
PTbiker is offline  
Old 09-26-22, 12:46 PM
  #9  
phughes
Senior Member
 
phughes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,610
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 819 Post(s)
Liked 926 Times in 531 Posts
Originally Posted by PTbiker View Post
I don't have that type of pliers, and there isn't much space to hold the washer. What about hitting the tab with a screwdriver until it reaches the groove?
Go to store, buy the pliers necessary, slip lock, sometimes called channel lock pliers, then use them for the job. Why waste time, and potential damage? Do you wish to spend even more time and money replacing the fork when you damage the threads after the screwdriver slips? I'm all for word arounds, but only when there is really not a better way, and when it won't make matters worse.
phughes is offline  
Old 09-26-22, 01:09 PM
  #10  
smd4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 2,084

Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1225 Post(s)
Liked 901 Times in 590 Posts
Originally Posted by PTbiker View Post
I don't have that type of pliers, and there isn't much space to hold the washer. What about hitting the tab with a screwdriver until it reaches the groove?
Really?? How many times to people have to explain the easiest way of fixing this to you? Now you want to hit your headset with a hammer?? Just buy a set of channel locks and do this the right way. They are less than $20 at Lowes and you will have them when you need to do this job again (and, BTW, they're useful for any number of other jobs around the house).

This problem could have been easily rectified days ago and you could have been riding the bike this last weekend. But you seem determined to make this 30-second job far more difficult than it ever needed to be, because...I have no idea.
smd4 is offline  
Old 09-26-22, 01:14 PM
  #11  
PTbiker
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: Portugal
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by smd4 View Post
Really?? How many times to people have to explain the easiest way of fixing this to you? Now you want to hit your headset with a hammer?? Just buy a set of channel locks and do this the right way. They are less than $20 at Lowes and you will have them when you need to do this job again (and, BTW, they're useful for any number of other jobs around the house).

This problem could have been easily rectified days ago and you could have been riding the bike this last weekend. But you seem determined to make this 30-second job far more difficult than it ever needed to be, because...I have no idea.
I rode the bike last weekend. If play or noise doesn't reappear, there's no need to touch the headset again.
PTbiker is offline  
Old 09-26-22, 01:15 PM
  #12  
smd4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 2,084

Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1225 Post(s)
Liked 901 Times in 590 Posts
You're right. I thought it was worth a try, but I give up.
smd4 is offline  
Old 09-26-22, 02:02 PM
  #13  
FBinNY 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 36,478

Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter

Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4613 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 486 Times in 325 Posts
Originally Posted by PTbiker View Post
I don't have that type of pliers, and there isn't much space to hold the washer. What about hitting the tab with a screwdriver until it reaches the groove?
I can't answer that without your skill level, and having an idea of how much purchase you can get on the tab. So, you make the call. I

If you can get a decent purchase of the tab in a way that you won't be beating up the threads (any more than the tab already has), and you think you have decent hand skills, feel free to give it a shot before springing the dough for another tool.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

“Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is online now  
Old 11-03-22, 11:29 AM
  #14  
PTbiker
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: Portugal
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
A couple weeks ago, I may have solved my issue (fingers crossed), as I got no headset play this time after riding many kilometers.

After removing the stuck washer and filing off its tab, I cleaned and greased everything, including the race and the caged bearings. The only tricky part was to get the bearing preload right while tightening everything nicely.

A big thanks to all those who bothered to reply.
PTbiker is offline  
Likes For PTbiker:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.