rusty_ss

I need some advice about a wheel upgrade I am planning for my son. He is a junior (12 years old) and racing on both indoor wooden and outdoor concrete velodromes. I want to build the wheels with him (try to tech him a bit about building bikes and maybe value the wheels a bit more in the process). I have built a ton of MTB, road and unicycle wheels in the past so am confident doing this and have all the tools but have not built a track wheel before so have a few questions.

1) I know wheel weight is less important on the track than the road but is this still true for juniors? I was planning to go for a reasonably light rim rather than a super aero rim as it seems to me that while he is young the rotating weight will be more of an issue than the aero advantage will provide. Juniors are not allowed to use carbon rims here (Australia) so I was thinking of going with something reasonably light and moderately priced that still has some depth to it like an H Plus Son Architype laced to Dura Ace high flange hubs. Any thoughts?

2) Also it seems like many of the rims that are out there now are 23mm. If I go with a 23mm rim does it limit you to running 23mm tires on the track?

3) Finally, I was planning to lace the wheels up with Sapim CX-Ray spokes in 32 holes and 3x front and back because I know I can build a strong true wheel that way. I know a lot of people like radial lacing on the front and feel this creates less turbulence etc. My feeling is that this is not likely to be noticeable to a junior but if this is not the case I am happy to get advice on the best lacing patterns to use?

Any suggestions are very welcome. Thanks a lot!

carleton

I'm not much of a wheel builder, but I think 32 spokes for a youngster his age (and assumed weight) is overkill.

I'm well over 200lbs and I ride Mavic Ellipse as training wheels which use 20 bladed spokes front and rear:



When I'm doing standing starts I'll substitute a 36 spoke rear wheel. I'm making over 2,000W. But, If I'm doing rolling stuff (flying 200M, mass start racing etc...) then the 20 spoke Ellipse rear is fine. I've seen 300lb guys ride these on the streets.

Such a setup is really fast, too. I set a PB (at the time) on a set of Ellipse for the flying 200.

The Campy Pista wheels are similar but they are tubular and 24 spokes each:



I've seen some 250lb guys riding these.

My all-time favorite track wheel (that I've never owned) is the Campagnolo Shamal Pista wheels. These have tested to be as fast as Zipp 404 wheels!

16 bladed spokes:




I've been told by a former national team rider (not US) that they were suitable for big guys. He had a set and he was UCI World Cup level sprinter.

So I wrote all of that to say this: I think 20 bladed spokes front/rear would be fine for your build. 32 spokes is just adding more wind resistance. The trick is finding track hubs with low counts. Look at the Zipp Track Hubs. I think they come as low as 20 in the front and 24 rear. Best track hubs on the planet...with a high price tag to boot.

As far as rims go, maybe get something like the Deep V. It uses the same shape that the Ellipse and Campy wheels use.


Your son's bike will still have to weigh 15lbs. Be careful not to make it too light.

carleton

Ah! I just remembered.

Maybe try to use the gipiemme tecno 416 rim! They are strikingly similar to the Campy Shamal. I believe that Gipiemme made the Shamal (as well as other rims) for Campy




You may be able to find a set.

Or consider the Gipiemme A40. They come as low as 28h: Gipiemme. A40

taras0000

Any wheel you build now will last him for years to come and I would try to keep that in mind when you build. I've got 10 year old wheels that are still going strong. I wouldn't worry too much about being limited to running only 23mm tires. In a few years, as he grows and gets bigger, that's what he should have underneath him anyways. Take note of Carlton's info about spokes and overkill. All my serious racing took place when I was 185-205lbs. I've always been able to get away with 28f/28r for training wheels. I had a set of 36's that I used to standing starts (torque/1900w), motorpacing, and at FCV because of the G forces.

The campy Shamals were just Gipiemme wheels with campy hubs. Great wheel that will last forever and just as fast as more expensive/deeper wheels when used indoors. Velocity Deep V's make a great choice if you want aero/strong although an Aerohead rim wheel be strong and light. Built with good spokes, hubs, and proper tension and it will last forever. Stay with 3x builds, good but reasonably affordable components and in a few years, they will be his bread and butter training wheels and he can get some "fast" wheels if he or you want, but just let him know that many 10 second 200's have been done on spoked wheels.

CliffordK

Are you doing 24", 650, or 700c?

How heavy is the kid?

I'm not sure I'd go overboard with fancy wheels for a 12 yr old kid, unless he is competing in the top half dozen at the national level.

However, if he is about 100 lbs, and pretty easy on his equipment, then you could run just about anything including experimenting with fancy lacing patterns.

But, if you're doing 700c, then he could be using the wheels for the next 30 years... so you might consider doing a bit future proofing of them too.

Personally I still like the 19/20mm rims, especially for the lighter riders. So far I'm doing fine running a Velocity Aerohead OC on the rear. I've build the Aerohead front, but haven't started riding it yet.

slindell

The Kinlin xr270 is a rim that is reasonably light and aero and will not get blown around. 24-28 spokes should be more than enough for a junior - I am well past junior weight and 28 spokes are solid for me. Radial on the front is easier if this is a learning exercise. Radial front then do the rear with crossed spokes as the next level up. A flip flop hub is symmetrical so no dish is needed. You can find DA hubs for a bit over 200 a pair or Fomula/Origin8 and all the clones are half that. 32 spoke hubs are easier to find so that might make the spoke decision.

rusty_ss

Thanks a lot for the feedback. It is very useful. based on Carleton and others comments I will go with 28 spokes if I can get a 28 hole DA hub. They will be 700c wheels Clifford. He is riding a 50cm frame with cheapish wheels at the moment. I suspect he will need a new frame next year as he is growing but I am hoping the wheels will last until he is a senior and can buy his own carbon wheels He is riding national level events and is consistently in the top 20 at the moment but his last meet ended up top 10 and is still bottom age so will probably do better next season. Most of the kids he rides against are on Ellipse or better wheels whereas his complete bike cost just over half of a new set of Ellipses so I think this will be a worthwhile upgrade.

Thanks again. Ill post a picture when we are done.